Boundaries with MS-North

[doctorwho]

momof3 said:

gatordog said:

Concerning possibility of Watts and Cowlishaw being assigned to northern MV....

I know per mapquest its 6.7 mi to Eola/Diehl and only 4.3 to WV, we have gone over that before. Mapquest also gives times as 11 min for the further site, and 8 minute to WV. (but given traffic of course we take those times with grain of salt)

Well, I did the traffic experiment today. I was at Watts at 6:57 am, and I made it to the St John's sign at 7:08. I matched the mapquest predicted time of 11 minutes.

The drive was remarkably easy. Stoplights each turn. Four lanes entire way. I went mapquest way, Sequoia to Rickert, right on Ogden. Then left on Aurora/New York Ave (I was only car turning left here). An easy shot going west down Aurora/New York Ave. (I may have been the only car at the 59 light going west). Then north on Eola. (I take Eola almost every day. Eola frees up north of New York, but really bogs down south in the mornings....so the drive from Watts misses that bottleneck).

Doctorwho and others in that area, should give the drive a try sometime.

I would be willing to bet that the morning commute from Fry ES to the BB site is longer than 11 minutes with traffic. I am rarely south of 87th st in the mornings, so this is just my bet. I also think it may takes longer to go from Watts to Hill MS.

Realistically, in all site locations and boundary scenarios, quite a few people will have somewhat longer commutes no matter what. But if its only a few minutes, I think that has to be deemed acceptable.

GD - appreciate the analysis, but how many lights did you have to sit through at New York and 59? By your own analysis there was no traffic. If there was never any traffic in the district on Eola or Ogden or Aurora/NY or Rt. 59 then why would anyone, even say Kendall, have a problem going to the AME site

Coming home in the afternoon, you will sit through several lights just to get through the Rt. 59/Aurora intersection in both directions.

How would Cowlishaw go? Take RT 59 from 75th to Diehl?

eta - And if going over 6 miles to HS is no big deal, why did 80% of Brookdale vote NO on the referendum?

and that was to the HS they 'signed up for' when they moved into the area -- just like I signed up for Hill MS - that far away , because when I bought my house I knew where it was at -- and accepted that fact.

I will sign up for WV now, under any scenario -

[momto4]

momof3 said:

gatordog said:

Concerning possibility of Watts and Cowlishaw being assigned to northern MV....

I know per mapquest its 6.7 mi to Eola/Diehl and only 4.3 to WV, we have gone over that before. Mapquest also gives times as 11 min for the further site, and 8 minute to WV. (but given traffic of course we take those times with grain of salt)

Well, I did the traffic experiment today. I was at Watts at 6:57 am, and I made it to the St John's sign at 7:08. I matched the mapquest predicted time of 11 minutes.

The drive was remarkably easy. Stoplights each turn. Four lanes entire way. I went mapquest way, Sequoia to Rickert, right on Ogden. Then left on Aurora/New York Ave (I was only car turning left here). An easy shot going west down Aurora/New York Ave. (I may have been the only car at the 59 light going west). Then north on Eola. (I take Eola almost every day. Eola frees up north of New York, but really bogs down south in the mornings....so the drive from Watts misses that bottleneck).

Doctorwho and others in that area, should give the drive a try sometime.

I would be willing to bet that the morning commute from Fry ES to the BB site is longer than 11 minutes with traffic. I am rarely south of 87th st in the mornings, so this is just my bet. I also think it may takes longer to go from Watts to Hill MS.

Realistically, in all site locations and boundary scenarios, quite a few people will have somewhat longer commutes no matter what. But if its only a few minutes, I think that has to be deemed acceptable.

GD - appreciate the analysis, but how many lights did you have to sit through at New York and 59? By your own analysis there was no traffic. If there was never any traffic in the district on Eola or Ogden or Aurora/NY or Rt. 59 then why would anyone, even say Kendall, have a problem going to the AME site

Coming home in the afternoon, you will sit through several lights just to get through the Rt. 59/Aurora intersection in both directions.

How would Cowlishaw go? Take RT 59 from 75th to Diehl?

eta - And if going over 6 miles to HS is no big deal, why did 80% of Brookdale vote NO on the referendum?

I think we can all agree that anywhere in the district traffic is almost always a factor for parts of the day.

I wouldn't advise anyone to use Rt. 59 between Ogden and Liberty to get to or from school nor would it be necessary.

From the Cowlishaw area there are a couple of options that aren't too bad. Fort Hill to Liberty and Liberty west to Eola, or Ogden to Commons, north to Liberty. The kids near Cowlishaw attended Indian Plains for two years so the commute then would have been very similar to the commute to the AME site.

As for Brookdale - I didn't think distance had anything to do with it. I thought it was being divided from the others in their MS.

[gatordog]

momof3 said:

gatordog said:

Concerning possibility of Watts and Cowlishaw being assigned to northern MV....

I know per mapquest its 6.7 mi to Eola/Diehl and only 4.3 to WV, we have gone over that before. Mapquest also gives times as 11 min for the further site, and 8 minute to WV. (but given traffic of course we take those times with grain of salt)

Well, I did the traffic experiment today. I was at Watts at 6:57 am, and I made it to the St John's sign at 7:08. I matched the mapquest predicted time of 11 minutes.

The drive was remarkably easy. Stoplights each turn. Four lanes entire way. I went mapquest way, Sequoia to Rickert, right on Ogden. Then left on Aurora/New York Ave (I was only car turning left here). An easy shot going west down Aurora/New York Ave. (I may have been the only car at the 59 light going west). Then north on Eola. (I take Eola almost every day. Eola frees up north of New York, but really bogs down south in the mornings....so the drive from Watts misses that bottleneck).

Doctorwho and others in that area, should give the drive a try sometime.

I would be willing to bet that the morning commute from Fry ES to the BB site is longer than 11 minutes with traffic. I am rarely south of 87th st in the mornings, so this is just my bet. I also think it may takes longer to go from Watts to Hill MS.

Realistically, in all site locations and boundary scenarios, quite a few people will have somewhat longer commutes no matter what. But if its only a few minutes, I think that has to be deemed acceptable.

GD - appreciate the analysis, but how many lights did you have to sit through at New York and 59?

when I got in left hand turn lane from 34 onto Aurora Av, traffic was light in my direct (west). The 59 light may have been green, dont remember, it was moving lots of traffic east. Pretty much just me going west. Traffic didnt pick up until turning N onto Eola from New York. Eola moves much better N of New York in morning, and the exact opposite in PM (I do not understand why)

[doctorwho]

momto4 said:

momof3 said:

GD - appreciate the analysis, but how many lights did you have to sit through at New York and 59? By your own analysis there was no traffic. If there was never any traffic in the district on Eola or Ogden or Aurora/NY or Rt. 59 then why would anyone, even say Kendall, have a problem going to the AME site

Coming home in the afternoon, you will sit through several lights just to get through the Rt. 59/Aurora intersection in both directions.

How would Cowlishaw go? Take RT 59 from 75th to Diehl?

eta - And if going over 6 miles to HS is no big deal, why did 80% of Brookdale vote NO on the referendum?

I think we can all agree that anywhere in the district traffic is almost always a factor for parts of the day.

I wouldn't advise anyone to use Rt. 59 between Ogden and Liberty to get to or from school nor would it be necessary.

From the Cowlishaw area there are a couple of options that aren't too bad. Fort Hill to Liberty and Liberty west to Eola, or Ogden to Commons, north to Liberty. The kids near Cowlishaw attended Indian Plains for two years so the commute then would have been very similar to the commute to the AME site.

As for Brookdale - I didn't think distance had anything to do with it. I thought it was being divided from the others in their MS.

so the proposal is to cross more train tracks by cutting through an indistrial area -- and that would work at night coming home from sporting events after dark how well ?

[warriorpride]

doctorwho said:

momto4 said:

I think we can all agree that anywhere in the district traffic is almost always a factor for parts of the day.

I wouldn't advise anyone to use Rt. 59 between Ogden and Liberty to get to or from school nor would it be necessary.

From the Cowlishaw area there are a couple of options that aren't too bad. Fort Hill to Liberty and Liberty west to Eola, or Ogden to Commons, north to Liberty. The kids near Cowlishaw attended Indian Plains for two years so the commute then would have been very similar to the commute to the AME site.

As for Brookdale - I didn't think distance had anything to do with it. I thought it was being divided from the others in their MS.

so the proposal is to cross more train tracks by cutting through an indistrial area -- and that would work at night coming home from sporting events after dark how well ?

If you don't want to cross tracks, North Aurora goes under them and New York goes over them. When driving to visit folks in the MW area (from approx. Eola & North Aurora), we've gone lots of different zig-zag patterns, using North Aurora or Liberty or New York as the main way to go east.

[gatormom]

The tracks are a moot point in my opinion. After all, it was okay with BB for Gombert to be the only school to cross them. If Macom is selected again, Gombert will be the only school to cross them and no, we have no underpasses or overpasses anywhere near us.

Oh silly me, Gombert teenage drivers must be better than the rest of the districts teenage drivers.

[proschool]

gatormom said:

The tracks are a moot point in my opinion. After all, it was okay with BB for Gombert to be the only school to cross them. If Macom is selected again, Gombert will be the only school to cross them and no, we have no underpasses or overpasses anywhere near us.

Oh silly me, Gombert teenage drivers must be better than the rest of the districts teenage drivers.

But 1/2 of Gombert is east of the tracks. So no matter what you do some Gombert students need to cross the tracks.

[gatormom]

proschool said:

gatormom said:

The tracks are a moot point in my opinion. After all, it was okay with BB for Gombert to be the only school to cross them. If Macom is selected again, Gombert will be the only school to cross them and no, we have no underpasses or overpasses anywhere near us.

Oh silly me, Gombert teenage drivers must be better than the rest of the districts teenage drivers.

But 1/2 of Gombert is east of the tracks. So no matter what you do some Gombert students need to cross the tracks.

More like 20% is east of the tracks and that is not the point. The point is, there are no overpasses or underpasses anywhere for them to take. They have to pass over tracks.

Sorry, if it is safe for even 1 student to cross the tracks, it is safe for the rest of the district and especially for areas that have alternative routes that take the tracks out of the picture.

[Arch]

gatormom said:

proschool said:

But 1/2 of Gombert is east of the tracks. So no matter what you do some Gombert students need to cross the tracks.

More like 20% is east of the tracks and that is not the point. The point is, there are no overpasses or underpasses anywhere for them to take. They have to pass over tracks.

Sorry, if it is safe for even 1 student to cross the tracks, it is safe for the rest of the district and especially for areas that have alternative routes that take the tracks out of the picture.

Agreed, crossing them is a moot point. They are also crossed on Ogden every day by many going to/from WVHS already. Same thing w/ traveling up/down Rt. 59. In and of itself, they are not show stoppers. Cumulatively they can be a royal pain in the butt, but there are alternative routes to minimize either that can be taken to/from almost any site. Whether one wants to choose to go those routes is another story altogether. But, the options are there and some already traverse them as it is. Minimization is the best one can hope for.

The same logic was being applied to Rt 59 at one point. We can't travel up/down it!!! But, everyone else can, and that's ok.

That pretty much brings us back to the Good/Bad/Ugly of each site in and of itself. What's around those sites, what's going to be around those sites and what are the transportation costs to get us to/from those sites on an ongoing basis. At some point the building will be paid for, but the building will remain where it gets parked forever, long after the bonds are paid off.

[doctorwho]

warriorpride said:

doctorwho said:

so the proposal is to cross more train tracks by cutting through an indistrial area -- and that would work at night coming home from sporting events after dark how well ?

If you don't want to cross tracks, North Aurora goes under them and New York goes over them. When driving to visit folks in the MW area (from approx. Eola & North Aurora), we've gone lots of different zig-zag patterns, using North Aurora or Liberty or New York as the main way to go east.

If I remember right, and I only remember cutting through there once to get to Eola - the treack crossing on Liberty just seemed to me to be the more dangerous kind or limited markings - it's been a while so I could be wrong here now though.
Trust me - you do not want to head west on Aurora Ave to try and cross 59 in rush hour ( or God help you not school related - weekends for Christmas shopping) as between all those cutting out of the strip mall on the south side and the way the lights are set - it could take you three lights to get through -- avoid that route at those times at all costs as the NS light on 59 is very very long - and the EW light has a hair trigger.

yes there are other ways, I would tell my kids to avoid adding more track crossings though

[wvhsparent]

The Liberty Crossing is signaled and gated. Drive that way a lot to get to shopping areas.

[Arch]

Doc,

Aurora Ave sucks to cross Rt 59 (By Fox Valley Mall).

N. Aurora, (North of the BNSF E/W lines) is quite decent to cross Rt 59 at.

[doctorwho]

archwinsome said:

Doc,

Aurora Ave sucks to cross Rt 59 (By Fox Valley Mall).

N. Aurora, (North of the BNSF E/W lines) is quite decent to cross Rt 59 at.

agree - but in rush our either have to cross more tracks on river ( and those ARE dangerous becuase the traffic backs up through the crossing many times ) - or slug ones way down Ogden in rush...neither are pleasant

[doctorwho]

wvhsparent said:

The Liberty Crossing is signaled and gated. Drive that way a lot to get to shopping areas.

like I said it's been a while , I just remembered it being very dark at that time ( night ) - but thanks for the update - appreciate it

[gatordog]

doctorwho said:

I have all the models I used to suppl yinfor for the referendum, and have updated with the last ISAT scores as well as Fall 2007 attendance for each ES


here is what option 2 as you laid it out leaves us:

MV 3793 90.1
WV 4355 90.7
NV 5097 96.7
13245

there are 13245 kids spread across the 21 MS's -- ( I did not attempt to split Peterson as those are reported as one number right now- if you want to estimate what % was Wheatland - tell me and I can recalc.

BUT - this still leaves MV woefully short -- as I have been saying all along- unless it is built at a 2500 student HS, and not 3000. So once again another ES would have to move - likely from WV to MV -- just who would that be ?

also the achievement gap is now one of the highest in any configuration for 2007

BB North North MACOM GD MV 2
Site w/ Watts

MV 90.9 89.5 91.9 92.9 90.1
WV 90.1 90.9 89.2 88.3 90.7
NV 94.0 93.7 93.5 93.4 96.7

GAP 3.1 4.2 4.3 5.1 6.6

it doesn't want to format correctly so let me try this:
low to high gap

BB site ( current boundaries ) % pass ISAT
MV = 90.9 WV = 90.1 NV = 94.0 GAP 3.1
Northern site ( rew boundaries )
MV = 89.5 WV = 90.0 NV = 93.7 GAP 4.2
Northern Site ( rew boundaries 2 - incl MW)
MV = 91.9 WV = 89.2 NV = 93.5 GAP 4.3
MACOM
MV = 92.9 WV = 88.3 NV = 93.4 GAP 5.1
Gatordog option 2 - northern site
MV = 90.1 WV = 90.7 NV = 96.7 GAP = 6.6

I did double check of drwho's achievement gap.
Concerning in this thread "Gatordog Option 2",
He had typo in (extra field added in....giving NV~96, whereas for all other cases it ~93, the correct score).

My check scores Gatordog option 2 as:
MV=90.1, WV=90.3, NV= 93.7 for GAP=3.6

To flesh out, Gatordog option 1 has:
MV=91.1, WV=89.3, NV= 93.7 for GAP=4.4


Recall BB boundaries had GAP=3.1 3.9 (btw NV and WV)

Here is another argument for "option 2" --Watts/Cowl to WV--- if north site chosen.

It looks to me that overall north site achievement gap is comparable with either BB or with possible Macom boundaries.