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Post by doctorwho on Apr 21, 2008 11:50:18 GMT -6
Jumping back in.....Doc, you are absolutely right. School size alone certainly does not make or break achievement. As in almost anything in life, there is no one easy answer. There are many indicators that lead to increased achievement: socioeconomic background, parental involvement, teacher-child ratios, participation in sports and other activities, etc. When I was talking before about freshman centers, one of the things that is so great for the kids attending these is the smaller scale. Sending our 14-year-olds into the larger mix of a big high school is pretty daunting. The creation of freshman centers is just one tool in the bag of tricks. They cannot work miracles, though. Other factors have to come into play as well. Lane Tech is an amazing school. One of the reasons it works so well, though, IMO, is that the students who attend want to be there. They've worked hard to get that opportunity. There are neighborhood kids in addition to the magnet kids, but the environment is so positively charged, I think that rubs off a bit. Lane has that tradition since the late 60's when I attended CPS - the admin there has made that school work for decades - I agree it is a great school. Yes, look at their 94% attendance record and one can see you are giht- the kids want to be there , in a system there that really struggles. I get very few opportunities to speak at Lane, usually I am in locations that are much more challenged. I have mixed feelings on freshman centers. I actually attended one at my CPS in the late 60's - and I didn;t like it. Likely because I felt like a freshman twice and I was in the main building a lot for athletics and advanced classes. But I was very outgoing, even then. I know kids who hated to leave the freshman center- so I see both sides. |
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Post by jftb on Apr 21, 2008 11:59:40 GMT -6
Jumping back in.....Doc, you are absolutely right. School size alone certainly does not make or break achievement. As in almost anything in life, there is no one easy answer. There are many indicators that lead to increased achievement: socioeconomic background, parental involvement, teacher-child ratios, participation in sports and other activities, etc. When I was talking before about freshman centers, one of the things that is so great for the kids attending these is the smaller scale. Sending our 14-year-olds into the larger mix of a big high school is pretty daunting. The creation of freshman centers is just one tool in the bag of tricks. They cannot work miracles, though. Other factors have to come into play as well. Lane Tech is an amazing school. One of the reasons it works so well, though, IMO, is that the students who attend want to be there. They've worked hard to get that opportunity. There are neighborhood kids in addition to the magnet kids, but the environment is so positively charged, I think that rubs off a bit. Lane has that tradition since the late 60's when I attended CPS - the admin there has made that school work for decades - I agree it is a great school. Yes, look at their 94% attendance record and one can see you are giht- the kids want to be there , in a system there that really struggles. I get very few opportunities to speak at Lane, usually I am in locations that are much more challenged. I have mixed feelings on freshman centers. I actually attended one at my CPS in the late 60's - and I didn;t like it. Likely because I felt like a freshman twice and I was in the main building a lot for athletics and advanced classes. But I was very outgoing, even then. I know kids who hated to leave the freshman center- so I see both sides. Doc, you, outgoing? You make me smile  We had kids BEG us to create a sophomore academy so they could stay with us after their freshman year. I think we almost filled in as parental figures, though. We were more constant than most of their parents, that's for sure. You ROCK to go back to CPS and help those underperforming kids. They are fortunate indeed to have you as a mentor. The more people who can give time, the better. Their situations break my heart. |
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Post by sleeplessinnpvl on Apr 21, 2008 12:04:11 GMT -6
I have been away for awhile. However, this news compelled me to make a brief return visit. Another very sad indictment of the School Administration and Board. I see a common theme from our "leaders" who see their job as doing whatever it takes to silence those who put a negative mark on the perception of the District. It appears that the official educational plan for improving performance of underachieving student performance is to import higher test scores into WVHS (to effectively "silence" those who need a voice the most!). When the overall average scores improve by importing higher performance scores, the attention from the state on the performance of WVHS will diminish (with absolutely no need to focus attention to improving the scores of every single student in District 204). Dr. D and Ms. Burkett....your new found dedication to social engineering will not automatically improve the education of the students in our district who are most in need, and I am starting to get what the problem is with locating the thrid high school in a logical place. The boundaries that result from BB will require a focus from our school administration on EDUCATION as opposed to real estate transactions. And, as hard as it is to believe, this in fact may have been your worst mistake yet! The students who are underperforming in fact need real leadership to help develop their talents (as if they were really attending one of the best Districts in the State)! spicy tuna, Can you explain to me what you mean by this statement? How is "importing higher test scores" into WV going to help by masking the situation. Looks like test scores are still going to be looked at by race, low-income etc. We aren't importing many of those students from NV in to WV. Those low performing students at WV still need to perform well. Maybe the overall student number will go up, but I don't see all groups necessarily going up because of this. The test scores are based on % of that group. The group may be smaller, but still a group of the same type of people. |
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Post by doctorwho on Apr 21, 2008 12:12:28 GMT -6
I have been away for awhile. However, this news compelled me to make a brief return visit. Another very sad indictment of the School Administration and Board. I see a common theme from our "leaders" who see their job as doing whatever it takes to silence those who put a negative mark on the perception of the District. It appears that the official educational plan for improving performance of underachieving student performance is to import higher test scores into WVHS (to effectively "silence" those who need a voice the most!). When the overall average scores improve by importing higher performance scores, the attention from the state on the performance of WVHS will diminish (with absolutely no need to focus attention to improving the scores of every single student in District 204). Dr. D and Ms. Burkett....your new found dedication to social engineering will not automatically improve the education of the students in our district who are most in need, and I am starting to get what the problem is with locating the thrid high school in a logical place. The boundaries that result from BB will require a focus from our school administration on EDUCATION as opposed to real estate transactions. And, as hard as it is to believe, this in fact may have been your worst mistake yet! The students who are underperforming in fact need real leadership to help develop their talents (as if they were really attending one of the best Districts in the State)! spicy tuna, Can you explain to me what you mean by this statement? How is "importing higher test scores" into WV going to help by masking the situation. Looks like test scores are still going to be looked at by race, low-income etc. We aren't importing many of those students from NV in to WV. Those low performing students at WV still need to perform well. Maybe the overall student number will go up, but I don't see all groups necessarily going up because of this. The test scores are based on % of that group. The group may be smaller, but still a group of the same type of people. 8 schools receiving some T1 $ for various reasons - 5.5 move to MV Fall 2009 if that school opens - does this reset the NCLB clock ? That would be the question. |
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Post by twhl on Apr 21, 2008 12:13:50 GMT -6
I inadvertently clicked on the "green board" link and figured out after awhile I was in the wrong place because they haven't posted the article, yet. I don't suppose they will..............wonder how this plays in the BB situation.
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Post by sleeplessinnpvl on Apr 21, 2008 12:18:05 GMT -6
I inadvertently clicked on the "green board" link and figured out after awhile I was in the wrong place because they haven't posted the article, yet. I don't suppose they will..............wonder how this plays in the BB situation. It was posted yesterday. The green board just doesn't think every news item is a SB conspiracy. |
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Post by snerdley on Apr 21, 2008 12:25:18 GMT -6
I have been away for awhile. However, this news compelled me to make a brief return visit. Another very sad indictment of the School Administration and Board. I see a common theme from our "leaders" who see their job as doing whatever it takes to silence those who put a negative mark on the perception of the District. It appears that the official educational plan for improving performance of underachieving student performance is to import higher test scores into WVHS (to effectively "silence" those who need a voice the most!). When the overall average scores improve by importing higher performance scores, the attention from the state on the performance of WVHS will diminish (with absolutely no need to focus attention to improving the scores of every single student in District 204). Dr. D and Ms. Burkett....your new found dedication to social engineering will not automatically improve the education of the students in our district who are most in need, and I am starting to get what the problem is with locating the thrid high school in a logical place. The boundaries that result from BB will require a focus from our school administration on EDUCATION as opposed to real estate transactions. And, as hard as it is to believe, this in fact may have been your worst mistake yet! The students who are underperforming in fact need real leadership to help develop their talents (as if they were really attending one of the best Districts in the State)! spicy tuna, Can you explain to me what you mean by this statement? How is "importing higher test scores" into WV going to help by masking the situation. Looks like test scores are still going to be looked at by race, low-income etc. We aren't importing many of those students from NV in to WV. Those low performing students at WV still need to perform well. Maybe the overall student number will go up, but I don't see all groups necessarily going up because of this. The test scores are based on % of that group. The group may be smaller, but still a group of the same type of people. How many of these students (in any of the failing categories) move out of WVHS and into MVHS at AME? Therefore, resetting the clock so to speak. And maybe neither BB nor Macom addressed this. Maybe we've figured it out: MVHS boundaries at AME move more existing WVHS who score low - so the school must go north and it must open in 09. Excuse me....is this about the kids?  ? Hmmmm..... |
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Post by kimmie on Apr 21, 2008 12:27:07 GMT -6
Wow what Sleepless In Npvl wrote on the green board "I'm very sad today. I went over to the Blue Board. (now nicknamed the Conspiracy Board) and started reading in their thread about this topic. What started out as progressive banter and concern over this problem progressed into a giant conspiracy theory about how the board is rushing to open MV so they can look better in the eyes of NCLB. I had thought there was a spark for some intelligent conversations regarding this issue, but I guess I was wrong."
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Post by spicytuna on Apr 21, 2008 12:27:11 GMT -6
In addition to Dr. Who's comments (5.5 T1 schools would be moved out from WVHS), in contrast to some of the horrible things that have been said by others, TG and WE have a significantly diverse population (and importing these test scores will increase the total minority test scores compared to where they stand today without having to improve actual student performance).
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Post by snerdley on Apr 21, 2008 12:29:34 GMT -6
Haven't the tests already been taken that will show AYP for the next year under the NCLB? Yes. No. And remember, for the sake of the students in this district, let's keep this a spin-free zone... please.The PSAE will be taken this week at NVHS - I'm not sure about WVHS - maybe someone else knows. The ISAT (middle school and elementary) were taken a month or so ago I believe. So no 2008 test scores are known at this point to know if progress has been made from the already published 07 results. Listen folks, we're talking about children here - let's be factual. |
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Post by sleeplessinnpvl on Apr 21, 2008 12:32:14 GMT -6
Wow what Sleepless In Npvl wrote on the green board "I'm very sad today. I went over to the Blue Board. (now nicknamed the Conspiracy Board) and started reading in their thread about this topic. What started out as progressive banter and concern over this problem progressed into a giant conspiracy theory about how the board is rushing to open MV so they can look better in the eyes of NCLB. I had thought there was a spark for some intelligent conversations regarding this issue, but I guess I was wrong." Very true. I am sad. Look at the beginning of this thread and how everyone was truly concerned about WV's scores and there was a sense that people wanted to find out the reason and work together to solve it. Those posts progressively changed as the thread went on. Just my opinion. Looking for a way to see if these boards can be a constructive solution to problems. But, no, I just see more fingerpointing. ETA: Thanks for the comment, snerdley. Let's stick to facts and suggestions and stop the fingerpointing. |
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Post by jftb on Apr 21, 2008 12:33:04 GMT -6
I've been out of the game for a few years staying home with kids, so I'm not as on top of the rules of NCLB as others may be. Is Federal funding tied to AYP? I would assume so. That was always my take as to why the "social engineering" was going on with these boundaries.
That said, though, I'm not so sure that the new boundaries help WV very much at all. While Fry and WE are very good schools, WV is also losing very good schools such as Watts, Young, Brooks, 1/2 Owen, etc. Will the number of new students coming in effectively replace the number of high performing students going out?
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Post by jftb on Apr 21, 2008 12:34:59 GMT -6
No. And remember, for the sake of the students in this district, let's keep this a spin-free zone... please.The PSAE will be taken this week at NVHS - I'm not sure about WVHS - maybe someone else knows. The ISAT (middle school and elementary) were taken a month or so ago I believe. So no 2008 test scores are known at this point to know if progress has been made from the already published 07 results. Listen folks, we're talking about children here - let's be factual. Yikes, so nasty! Sorry, I forgot about the PSAE. Was just thinking about the ISATS we took a month ago and thought, yes, the tests that will show our AYP have already been taken. Wasn't trying to spin anything! Geesh! |
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Post by concerned2 on Apr 21, 2008 12:36:41 GMT -6
I've been out of the game for a few years staying home with kids, so I'm not as on top of the rules of NCLB as others may be. Is Federal funding tied to AYP? I would assume so. That was always my take as to why the "social engineering" was going on with these boundaries. That said, though, I'm not so sure that the new boundaries help WV very much at all. While Fry and WE are very good schools, WV is also losing very good schools such as Watts, Young, Brooks, 1/2 Owen, etc. Will the number of new students coming in effectively replace the number of high performing students going out? I agree with you on this point. Moving TG/WE in and those schools out, will not help WV. |
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Post by snerdley on Apr 21, 2008 12:51:14 GMT -6
Wow what Sleepless In Npvl wrote on the green board "I'm very sad today. I went over to the Blue Board. (now nicknamed the Conspiracy Board) and started reading in their thread about this topic. What started out as progressive banter and concern over this problem progressed into a giant conspiracy theory about how the board is rushing to open MV so they can look better in the eyes of NCLB. I had thought there was a spark for some intelligent conversations regarding this issue, but I guess I was wrong." Very true. I am sad. Look at the beginning of this thread and how everyone was truly concerned about WV's scores and there was a sense that people wanted to find out the reason and work together to solve it. Those posts progressively changed as the thread went on. Just my opinion. Looking for a way to see if these boards can be a constructive solution to problems. But, no, I just see more fingerpointing. ETA: Thanks for the comment, snerdley. Let's stick to facts and suggestions and stop the fingerpointing. If the SB is using social engineering to avoid taking responsibility for the academic problems, that is reprehensible. And it wouldn't help the students. That's what we're wondering here, Sleepless. Wouldn't you agree that if this is what happened, it would be wrong? |
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