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Post by researching on Mar 3, 2009 9:21:37 GMT -6
Dw, My concern DW is that you know better regarding the FACTS about the elementary and middle schools, please don't add fuel to the fire regarding our district. When people "in the know" add snippets that have "error by omission" information it becomes irritating, this irritation is unneeded when our district is at this low point.... Kind of like hitting a dog that is already in submission. Doc doesn't need to add fuel to any fire, it's already blazing. What Doc didn't mention was that in ADDITION to the Elementary School that is only at 54 % occupancy, we also have classrooms being used for storage or district offices and I don't believe that is only happening at the school with 54 % occupancy. Our MS's are crowded...for this minute. My child visited Scullen last week for much of the school day and was shocked at how much LESS crowded it was than last year. Less crowded without ANY of the changes taking affect. One more thing...I do not see any "dog in submission" here. I wish. If that were the case we would not be continuing to build an unneeded high school in a disastrous location, at a HUGELY expedited cost. If there were a "dog in submission" here we would also see the alleged perpetrator of a heinous crime ALREADY moved out of Gregory. |
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Post by Arch on Mar 3, 2009 9:27:37 GMT -6
Dw, When you write that our district has a elementary school at 54% enrollment I am assuming you are talking about Peterson which is in the far S.W. side of our district. This school is only half filled due to the housing bust that has been occurring for the last couple of years. The buildings that were built with the idea of selling in the future were middle schools that "in the event of lower enrollment", these schools would be expendable if the freshman centers were unneeded. As it stands we need all our middle schools + the new one. I will agree with your statement that passing a referendum in this environment will be difficult at best. My concern DW is that you know better regarding the FACTS about the elementary and middle schools, please don't add fuel to the fire regarding our district. When people "in the know" add snippets that have "error by omission" information it becomes irritating, this irritation is unneeded when our district is at this low point.... Kind of like hitting a dog that is already in submission. I would venture a guess that the ES he is referring to is Owen; not a victim of the housing bust. |
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Post by doctorwho on Mar 3, 2009 9:34:30 GMT -6
Dw, When you write that our district has a elementary school at 54% enrollment I am assuming you are talking about Peterson which is in the far S.W. side of our district. This school is only half filled due to the housing bust that has been occurring for the last couple of years. The buildings that were built with the idea of selling in the future were middle schools that "in the event of lower enrollment", these schools would be expendable if the freshman centers were unneeded. As it stands we need all our middle schools + the new one. I will agree with your statement that passing a referendum in this environment will be difficult at best. My concern DW is that you know better regarding the FACTS about the elementary and middle schools, please don't add fuel to the fire regarding our district. When people "in the know" add snippets that have "error by omission" information it becomes irritating, this irritation is unneeded when our district is at this low point.... Kind of like hitting a dog that is already in submission. Before you accuse me of things - you may want to have all your facts in line also --you say I do know better than to print things that aren't quite true.-- and yes I do, and I would hope after all this time you'd know better than to accuse me of that. I am disappointed. There is an ES that had never run more than 54% of capacity ( please read key terms) since it's opening and that school is not Peterson-- I know why Peterson's enrollment is what it is and would never use facts of omission to pour gas on a fire - I am not a SB member. Hint last year they moved a good number of students there from another area to try and raise that #. You're on your own with the rest since I can't be trusted. So in this case I suggest you contact your favorite SB member and ask them which one it is. My facts come from a SB member - your response to me comes from where ? I don't just make this crap up, and you know that. So if your goal is to discredit me- prove I'm wrong. You'll be surprised at what you find. |
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Post by JB on Mar 3, 2009 9:45:57 GMT -6
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Mar 3, 2009 9:47:28 GMT -6
I stand corrected on the elementary school issue and apologize to you dw, with regard to the grade school issue as I was wrong with which grade school you meant. Please go into more detail about the properties you spoke of with regard to selling properties when they were built and why the school district had this plan.
I guess I am just getting a little aggravated with the going on in our district of late , and your ref. statement hit a nerve. We have people having meetings in their basements and board presidents swearing in e-mails. Dw, sorry about the elementary school issue, I like you am in wonder as to how we are going to get a referendum passed in this environment!
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Post by blankcheck on Mar 3, 2009 9:50:57 GMT -6
Southside:
While I can appreciate your opinion, we are building things that will not be needed. The voters where deceived. Schools buildings are not being utilized to there full capasity on our buck!
Are we in the midst of a bubble - Yes. I will not deny that, but that is what it is a BUBBLE! The housing market will take a long time to recover. At that point, the bubble will have moved through the district and we will be sitting on vacant buildings. You see all the little strip malls that are sitting empty?
On top of that, we are out to infinity to repay all this. And ya think as a taxpayer I am happy about that especially given the state of our economy?
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Post by Arch on Mar 3, 2009 9:52:10 GMT -6
I guess I am just getting a little aggravated with the going on in our district of late , and your ref. statement hit a nerve. We have people having meetings in their basements and board presidents swearing in e-mails. Dw, sorry about the elementary school issue, I like you am in wonder as to how we are going to get a referendum passed in this environment! Want to know the cool part about this? We have candidates that are interested enough in the issues around the district to take initiative and actually show up and listen to what people have to say and hear their experiences. I'm more worried about the fact that people had to feel like they needed the meeting in the first place... but that's already covered in other threads. |
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Post by d204mom on Mar 3, 2009 10:29:30 GMT -6
I guess I am just getting a little aggravated with the going on in our district of late , and your ref. statement hit a nerve. We have people having meetings in their basements and board presidents swearing in e-mails. Dw, sorry about the elementary school issue, I like you am in wonder as to how we are going to get a referendum passed in this environment! Want to know the cool part about this? We have candidates that are interested enough in the issues around the district to take initiative and actually show up and listen to what people have to say and hear their experiences. I'm more worried about the fact that people had to feel like they needed the meeting in the first place... but that's already covered in other threads. My understanding of how Daescher was fired from his last job is that the voters got their act together and voted in a majority on the school board that got rid of him. Imagine that. |
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Post by Arch on Mar 3, 2009 10:32:39 GMT -6
History tends to repeat itself.
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Mar 3, 2009 10:32:56 GMT -6
Blankcheck,
I assure you that I am acutely aware of the economic situation at hand especially in the commercial real estate market, (I turn those lexan signs backwards at those strip malls). I also know that a ref. is imminent and will be a difficult sell. This ref. will be a tough sell no matter who is in the drivers seat at the board level.
Arch, I like you am also very concerned that 204 residents feel the need to have a meeting in the first place. I must admit though that I can understand why many feel this way.
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Post by doctorwho on Mar 3, 2009 10:35:48 GMT -6
I stand corrected on the elementary school issue and apologize to you dw, with regard to the grade school issue as I was wrong with which grade school you meant. Please go into more detail about the properties you spoke of with regard to selling properties when they were built and why the school district had this plan. I guess I am just getting a little aggravated with the going on in our district of late , and your ref. statement hit a nerve. We have people having meetings in their basements and board presidents swearing in e-mails. Dw, sorry about the elementary school issue, I like you am in wonder as to how we are going to get a referendum passed in this environment! Ok thanks- I admit I was a little taken aback because you usually don't come guns a blazin' without facts - trust me I don' t make up any of this ( don't have to ) because reality is so bad in itself. Owen ran at mid 50's best capacity for a long time - questioning again what studies we do when we place schools. As you can see from numbers above- we have more than a few schools, including my own ES running well under capacity and with attendance dropping. And many of these schools have satellit locations that are far from walkers - Owen has all of Owen West and Watts has 3 satellites 3-5 miles from here. Building is long since done in these places- so yes there is excess capacity there. When we are $50M to $75M in the red in a few years ( hold on to your collective hat SSDM this is true) - and we can't pass a referendum for anything - combo of what they've pissed our money away on here (MV) and an economy that is not going to recover anytime soon -- the only efficiencies readily available are property and resource. This is not different than any corporation, and I work with this every day - trust me it is no fun..but we won't be offshoring our jobs ( not yet anyway) so property sales to raise cash will be inevitable. I don't like this any more than you do - unfortunately it is the path our leaders have chosen to go down. picture this for a moment SSDM - your a numbers guy: 06 ref fails - we are not out $150M we absolutely need a 7th MS for some period of time - and SOME more HS seats ( 1600 less than they tried to scare us with - maybemore - being conservative for this exercise) Howie Crouse had a bid to add 600 more seats to NVHS and fix the hallway situation for $12M add to that fact that Frontier campus is 52% capacity today almost 300 seats open We want to pilot on line learning - frees up more space for some periods a day You keep both freshman centers crowding is reduced and NEVER even remotely approaches split shifts or even close to where we were before NV opened you now only have 'operating costs' for 2 high schools- not 3 A 7th MS costs approx $35M ( land costs will vary this some ) ( potentially less if you convert an existing ES to a MS out of those with capacity's that are low and never will go up again based ondemographics) Max expenditure around $50M ( save $100M ) - and eliminates boundary issues / equal opportunities for all kids including class fo 2012 / sibling issue / no school on potentially dangerous land / no quick take battles / no wasted money to BB for lawsuits - no paying lobbyists - and a balanced budget 3 years from now including putting A/C in our schools. You wonder why some of us are upset ? Who overrode HC and why did he leave ? And while you are asking yourself these questions and why we are here today -- think about this also -- maybe just maybe all ends of this district are not as fractured as today - what's that worth ? |
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Post by moneypit on Mar 3, 2009 11:24:41 GMT -6
Well stated Doc. Sad and true.
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Post by researching on Mar 3, 2009 11:37:20 GMT -6
Painful but accurate. Can we fix this? I realize the election is a good start but is the damage too far gone?
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Mar 3, 2009 11:55:03 GMT -6
Doc,
I have no will to debate the third high school need or not. It is not that this argument is unimportant or the fact that many #'s regarding this situation seem out of whack.
My concern has to do with moving forward as a district. With MVHS almost done I am more concerned with how the "bills get paid " with this new addition. If the #'s you state are correct a substantial budget shortfall will only be compounded by the drop in the commercial and residential real estate market. The lack of much new development only compounds this situation.
Rather than just looking at the past, the time is now, as to how to address this situation. Maybe those running for board positions could address this situation in a context that is realistic and direct. Please note that I am not minimizing mistakes made in the past, just trying to put the present situation in a context that will help the district going forward into the future. Some clarity with costs now and moving forward along with the revised #'s of revenue and a good dose of "Give Me the Bad News...How much is this going to cost!!!"
Along with this "Bad financial News" Please put it in a format that the non-financial guys can understand, no more of the mumbo jumbo crap that I need to send to the CPA to get real #'s.
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Post by researching on Mar 3, 2009 12:10:38 GMT -6
I will never vote to throw good money after bad. With families all over our country cutting corners to put food on the table I will not vote YES to any referendum that will increase my taxes just because the incompetent individuals we have in our current SB / Admin. made poor decisions. Sorry but the free pass mentality must end. The bad news is we continue to keep a break neck pace on a school we do not need. I will not support a referendum for operating costs for that horrible decision. Sorry but, unlike the SB, I KNOW when I can't afford it.
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