Change of Plans

[Arch]

confused said:

Gatordog - what if the SB decides that it makes more sense to send the schools closer to WV up to MV so that the outlying schools (Cowlishaw & Watts) can have a better commute - Gombert is, after all only 5 miles at most down Eola from MV. Maybe spread that commute out so everyone can feel the pain of this great location. I think you would definitely have something to say about that and it wouldn't be positive, is my guess.

I think it's awfully nice of you - who is only positively affected by the changes - to be
looking on the bright side for all of these people.

From a 'fair' point of view, wouldn't that make both MW and GMB both go to the 2nd closest school?

[WeBe204]

archwinsome said:

confused said:

Gatordog - what if the SB decides that it makes more sense to send the schools closer to WV up to MV so that the outlying schools (Cowlishaw & Watts) can have a better commute - Gombert is, after all only 5 miles at most down Eola from MV. Maybe spread that commute out so everyone can feel the pain of this great location. I think you would definitely have something to say about that and it wouldn't be positive, is my guess.

I think it's awfully nice of you - who is only positively affected by the changes - to be
looking on the bright side for all of these people.

From a 'fair' point of view, wouldn't that make both MW and GMB both go to the 2nd closest school?

That does seem to be the theme.

[gatordog]

Arch (applies to doc comments also), just to clarify some.

archwinsome said:

1) Friends come/go. What some find a 'benefit' others see as 'who cares?'

My opinion is the a no split MS will be seen by many as a positive. I feel the 'who cares' will be minority on this one.

2) Very true if they avoid all grade-level crossings. 15 minutes currently to 40 minutes if assigned there is *NOT* a shorter commute time by any math I have ever seen though... so that is not a positive.

I am suggesting that travel time could be shorter if a fair number of times the trip down Ogden to WV is stopped by a freight train. Even thought dist is shorter, commute time is longer. Not every time....but integrated over school year with incr train traffic, it possibles that overall its shorter. (I am not saying it is...but possible) My main point, a trip north you dont have to worry at all about trains. Predictability

3) No, it is not. Travel is N in the morning (Direction of commute) and South in the afternoon (again, direction of the commute). Currently, it's West in the morning and East in the afternoon. 100% counter commute to/From WV.

I was referring portion of trip heading west on Aurora Av/New York, the way I think is best. This indeed is counter rush.

By the way, I tried the morning Watts/Cowl drive monday on snowy day following Super Bowl Sunday. I wanted to better understand bad weather day effect on possible Cowl and Watts morning drive. Roads were certainly a little slick. I was at the Book/Rickert light turning left at 6:55 and went past the Church sign on Eola at 7:11. 16 minutes. I took New York.

[casey]

brad204 said:

sleeplessinnpvl said:

I can certainly relate to docwho. I think he and many others feel they have been dealt a double blow. When I put myself in someone's shoes 2 years ago, at first I would have been excited to be establishing a new school, but then I got to thinking that there are a lot of sacrifices too that doc mentioned. But he was going to deal with that because he was going to be sent to BB. Now, he is faced with a new scenario and not only does he have to deal with the development of the new school, but he is being bussed twice the distance. So I guess I would be upset too. I think people should look at the Watts/Cowlishaw situation. They are frustrated and there is probably nothing anyone can do about it. When you stop and examine it, it makes other people's complaints about their current 5 minute bus ride to school changing to a 15 -20 minute bus ride down the road...now THAT looks selfish, IMO. I just hope that if docwho gets assigned to MV, he will divert all of his abounding energy and passion that he expresses here and aim it toward making that school the best it can be. Then we will all be winners!

Seriously, get over the back handed digs. I am tired of it. I put my sub-division in my profile because I think its important to say where you are from. It does taint what I say here in some people's eyes. I also honestly express my concerns in this forum so we can work it out. I am sick and tired of this SW bashing BS.

Amen, Brad. It is definitely a back-handed dig! It comes at you because you're from the SW side and we (WE, TG, PET) all get drug in together for much of the bashing. Sad.

Also, Sleepless, if you're referring to my kid's bus ride (quoting a 5-10 min. trip to now 20) that's not correct. I was referring to all of my multiple trips that I head over to NV to pick my kid up from practice, etc. My kid's bus ride is now 20 minutes (mostly driving around the neighborhood) to NV and will probably be almost double that to 40 at WV. Don't criticize me for not wanting a 35-40 minute bus ride! I doubt you'd want that for your children either!!!

[gatormom]

confused said:

Gatordog - what if the SB decides that it makes more sense to send the schools closer to WV up to MV so that the outlying schools (Cowlishaw & Watts) can have a better commute - Gombert is, after all only 5 miles at most down Eola from MV. Maybe spread that commute out so everyone can feel the pain of this great location. I think you would definitely have something to say about that and it wouldn't be positive, is my guess.

I think it's awfully nice of you - who is only positively affected by the changes - to be
looking on the bright side for all of these people.

confused, I know this will be hard for you to understand but many of us from Gombert are fully aware of the situation and have come to the conclusion that the district will send us where they send us. Having communicated extensively with GD, I can tell you, he is ready to make that change as am I.

It would not be easy, especially for those of us who have had a prior child at WV and want to continue the Warrior tradition.

By the way, GD has worked more boundaries out than I can count and guess what, some of them even send Gombert to MV at AME. He is very impartial.

[title1parent]

gatormom said:

confused said:

Gatordog - what if the SB decides that it makes more sense to send the schools closer to WV up to MV so that the outlying schools (Cowlishaw & Watts) can have a better commute - Gombert is, after all only 5 miles at most down Eola from MV. Maybe spread that commute out so everyone can feel the pain of this great location. I think you would definitely have something to say about that and it wouldn't be positive, is my guess.

I think it's awfully nice of you - who is only positively affected by the changes - to be
looking on the bright side for all of these people.

confused, I know this will be hard for you to understand but many of us from Gombert are fully aware of the situation and have come to the conclusion that the district will send us where they send us. Having communicated extensively with GD, I can tell you, he is ready to make that change as am I.

It would not be easy, especially for those of us who have had a prior child at WV and want to continue the Warrior tradition.

By the way, GD has worked more boundaries out than I can count and guess what, some of them even send Gombert to MV at AME. He is very impartial.

I second what GM said. We are prepared to go to AME if we are sent there. Even if that means a split family.

[doctorwho]

gatordog said:

Arch (applies to doc comments also), just to clarify some.

archwinsome said:

1) Friends come/go. What some find a 'benefit' others see as 'who cares?'

My opinion is the a no split MS will be seen by many as a positive. I feel the 'who cares' will be minority on this one.

I am suggesting that travel time could be shorter if a fair number of times the trip down Ogden to WV is stopped by a freight train. Even thought dist is shorter, commute time is longer. Not every time....but integrated over school year with incr train traffic, it possibles that overall its shorter. (I am not saying it is...but possible) My main point, a trip north you dont have to worry at all about trains. Predictability

3) No, it is not. Travel is N in the morning (Direction of commute) and South in the afternoon (again, direction of the commute). Currently, it's West in the morning and East in the afternoon. 100% counter commute to/From WV.

I was referring portion of trip heading west on Aurora Av/New York, the way I think is best. This indeed is counter rush.

By the way, I tried the morning Watts/Cowl drive monday on snowy day following Super Bowl Sunday. I wanted to better understand bad weather day effect on possible Cowl and Watts morning drive. Roads were certainly a little slick. I was at the Book/Rickert light turning left at 6:55 and went past the Church sign on Eola at 7:11. 16 minutes. I took New York.

no school on Sunday if I remember right, nor much traffic ( seriously I appreciate you doing that though GD )- and I also find GD to be more impartial than most ( including myself) on the whole situation

A week ago Friday I dropped my daughter at Hill at 7 PM for Hilltopper- it took over 45 minutes to drive back on that hellish snow night --

I don't think either trip is representative in reality which is why I never posted mine.

last Wednesday night my wife and I made the trip from AME to home - 5:15 - 5:43 28 minutes - more representatve.


Let's all remember that the SD is quoting 40-42 minutes for the average Watts drive ( I live at the SE end of Watts so I already know mine longer) - not me or anyone else timing. I highly doubt they would quote anything longer than they had to.

btw I asked my daughter how many times stopped by train when she drove to WV--she said <10 in 3 years of driving. my guess is the trains are not there at rush hour

[wvhsparent]

Also as stated many times I reall do hope MW/Cowl do not have to become the cross-country travellers.
All of the negatives (other than the travel/distances) would have occured at the school wherever it was built. It happened before at NV, and will happen again. Let's all try and really find a way to make this site work. It's what we got to work with.....BB is done and gone....You tell me a way to help lobby to keep MW/COWL at WVHS, I'm there!

[gatordog]

confused said:

Gatordog - what if the SB decides that it makes more sense to send the schools closer to WV up to MV so that the outlying schools (Cowlishaw & Watts) can have a better commute - Gombert is, after all only 5 miles at most down Eola from MV. Maybe spread that commute out so everyone can feel the pain of this great location. I think you would definitely have something to say about that and it wouldn't be positive, is my guess.

I think it's awfully nice of you - who is only positively affected by the changes - to be
looking on the bright side for all of these people.

Do I think Gombert going to MV is in play? Yes I do. I think Gombert could go to NV possibly too.

I would say that Gombert going to MV could indeed be an acceptable option. If it did not go as an island. And if it had a fair MS assignement. If the SB can work that out, its something I could support. Do you have any ideas how to work that out, confused?

For other schools being assigned to a further HS, I am insistent that they dont go as island and they have a fair MS assignement. That is my criteria. That certainly applies to Gombert's assignment, in my mind.

Concerning have something "positive to say", I think to make good decisions, one always has to objectively look at Pros, as well as Cons. You cant "make up your mind before hand" and one only list Cons, can you?

[gatordog]

doctorwho said:

gatordog said:

Arch (applies to doc comments also), just to clarify some.


My opinion is the a no split MS will be seen by many as a positive. I feel the 'who cares' will be minority on this one.

I am suggesting that travel time could be shorter if a fair number of times the trip down Ogden to WV is stopped by a freight train. Even thought dist is shorter, commute time is longer. Not every time....but integrated over school year with incr train traffic, it possibles that overall its shorter. (I am not saying it is...but possible) My main point, a trip north you dont have to worry at all about trains. Predictability

I was referring portion of trip heading west on Aurora Av/New York, the way I think is best. This indeed is counter rush.

By the way, I tried the morning Watts/Cowl drive monday on snowy day following Super Bowl Sunday. I wanted to better understand bad weather day effect on possible Cowl and Watts morning drive. Roads were certainly a little slick. I was at the Book/Rickert light turning left at 6:55 and went past the Church sign on Eola at 7:11. 16 minutes. I took New York.

no school on Sunday if I remember right ( seriously I appreciate you doing that though GD )-
.....

btw I asked my daughter how many times stopped by train when she drove to WV--she said <10 in 3 years of driving. my guess is the trains are not there at rush hour

Sorry, doctorwho, i should have clarified. That drive was on Monday following superbowl. It was a rush hour test.


The train thing...yes, i am factoring in this unknown/possible incr. I do NOT deny, some of my pros are a bit of a stretch

[sleeplessinnpvl]

casey said:

brad204 said:

Seriously, get over the back handed digs. I am tired of it. I put my sub-division in my profile because I think its important to say where you are from. It does taint what I say here in some people's eyes. I also honestly express my concerns in this forum so we can work it out. I am sick and tired of this SW bashing BS.

Amen, Brad. It is definitely a back-handed dig! It comes at you because you're from the SW side and we (WE, TG, PET) all get drug in together for much of the bashing. Sad.

Also, Sleepless, if you're referring to my kid's bus ride (quoting a 5-10 min. trip to now 20) that's not correct. I was referring to all of my multiple trips that I head over to NV to pick my kid up from practice, etc. My kid's bus ride is now 20 minutes (mostly driving around the neighborhood) to NV and will probably be almost double that to 40 at WV. Don't criticize me for not wanting a 35-40 minute bus ride! I doubt you'd want that for your children either!!!

OK, let's all calm down while I reiterate that I was not referring to any one particular poster on this site. I have no idea how long any of your commutes are now nor will be. I picked that 5-10 minute number off the top of my head. Your assumption that I was referring to you is wrong. If I was referring to you, I would have put your name down. The vast majority of us are going to increase our commutes. That is a fact and the Dash has already confirmed it. I would not be happy if my kids' commute lengthend by any means. That is a fact. My problem is with PEOPLE ANYWHERE who are going to be affected by this change thinking that they should have a win-win-win situation while others suffer the most. If I lived in Steck and was told I would have to go to MV so that Watts could have a shorter commute, I would be mad, yes, but I would also understand the reasoning. IMO you don't have to like where they put you, but you should look at the broader picture and understand why you are being put there. That is the key to healing our district and all of this subdivision bashing. And personally I think posting your location on this blog just fuels the perception of subdivision bashing. Since you put your location down, you are naturally a victim for any comments. Since I don't reveal my location, I naturally am the evil subdivision basher. And Casey, again I wasn't referring to you either. If your commute will be 40 minutes now, then you can be in the camp with the Watts folks that have a right to complain.

[doctorwho]

wvhsparent said:

Also as stated many times I reall do hope MW/Cowl do not have to become the cross-country travellers.
All of the negatives (other than the travel/distances) would have occured at the school wherever it was built. It happened before at NV, and will happen again. Let's all try and really find a way to make this site work. It's what we got to work with.....BB is done and gone....You tell me a way to help lobby to keep MW/COWL at WVHS, I'm there!

Just by statements like that - and we need to ensure the SD - Sb is hearing them, that it is not just us complaining or concerned - that others see the inequity too. Thank you !

Now the solution - that's the real issue- it has to be creative because of where the school was placed - but I do believe no one should have to spend 45 minutes one way on a bus over someone who would have 20 minutes to go to that same school- I just see that as wrong.


if school A has 15 minutes today to WVHS ( 10-12 to NVHS) then 45 mins should not be an option at all ( watts today)

if school B has 10 minutes today that becomes 20 minutes, I'm sorry but I see that as a better option than above.

Is either perfect - no. But as parent has said, the site is what the site is now --BB is gone forever and should not even be part of the rhetoric any more except for how much it is going to cost us to get out of there.

If that's selfish, then I am guilty as charged.

[gatordog]

brad204 said:

From a 'fair' point of view, wouldn't that make both MW and GMB both go to the 2nd closest school?

That does seem to be the theme.[/quote]

Brad and arch, here is the theme: I do not see how to work out Gombert going to MV with contiguous neighborhood and either a ~50/50 MS or a 100 MV feeder MS.

[jwh]

doctorwho said:

archwinsome said:

I appreciate the clarification, and I'm sorry if I came across abrasive. There is a problem with some of what was pointed out as positives in the first post and those are things that will not be there for the first couple of years of students at the new high school. The curriculum may look the same on paper but it will not be the same in reality. Things are not and will not be established. There will be a 'cutting of the teeth' period of N number of years. Years that those kids will not get back or be able to 'do over'. There will be things MISSING. It will not be EQUAL across the 3 schools. For those kids coming later, I agree with everything she points out (except the convenience of proximity), after things are 'established'. But initially, it will be anything but equal. Doc has a child that will be caught up on that inequity and I have 2 that will. My 4th won't hit those grades until well after the kinks are worked out.

Thank you Arch - kids get only 1 chance at HS -- Arch and I have some that get totally screwed in their experience - and I do not have to wear a SB hat, I get to wear a Dad hat - and I view it as just wrong. For those who at least get a HS closer to their home - there is something to hold onto - for the 7th and 8th graders in MW now - explain to them that the schools are less crowded - so they need to take one for the team.

Again, the school is where the school is- but there is no need to have my kids spend 1 1/2 day on the bus and miss all the HS experiences others will be getting.


btw - that commute will get nothing but worse over time - the distance will always stink - the time will never get shorter

Should we expect the educational experience to be so bad? At a recent PTA meeting, Kathy Birkett said D204 staff will be shuffled from all over the district when Metea opens. Talent will be pulled from WV and NV to Metea, just as they did when NV opened.

[Arch]

gatordog said:

Arch (applies to doc comments also), just to clarify some.

archwinsome said:

1) Friends come/go. What some find a 'benefit' others see as 'who cares?'

My opinion is the a no split MS will be seen by many as a positive. I feel the 'who cares' will be minority on this one.

I've never seen any valid poll on this to determine which is the majority. We both can speculate until the cows come home. So, it is neither a positive nor a negative, but instead just a personal preference.

I am suggesting that travel time could be shorter if a fair number of times the trip down Ogden to WV is stopped by a freight train. Even thought dist is shorter, commute time is longer. Not every time....but integrated over school year with incr train traffic, it possibles that overall its shorter. (I am not saying it is...but possible) My main point, a trip north you dont have to worry at all about trains. Predictability

No, it's not shorter unless you are going to have 30 minutes worth of trains each and every day for each direction. Those are not my times, those are Laidlaw's times.

I was referring portion of trip heading west on Aurora Av/New York, the way I think is best. This indeed is counter rush.

It's the same counter-rush we have now w/ just Ogden. Now, you've also ADDED in Northbound commute traffic that was not there before in the morning, and added in southbound commute traffic in the afternoon that was not there prior.

By the way, I tried the morning Watts/Cowl drive monday on snowy day following Super Bowl Sunday. I wanted to better understand bad weather day effect on possible Cowl and Watts morning drive. Roads were certainly a little slick. I was at the Book/Rickert light turning left at 6:55 and went past the Church sign on Eola at 7:11. 16 minutes. I took New York.

Me driving myself, I too can get to places in times that are unbelievable even at seemingly impossible times of days. I am not the bus, however, and laidlaw has told the district it's a 40 minute trip from here with the stops and routes they must follow. You should have tried going from book/rickert east bound to whispering hills, north to sequoia, stop for 1 minute, left to ambleside, right and follow the L around back to whispering hills with 2 stops, right to oakhurst and follow the L out to oswego with a stop 4 houses prior, then right down to river with a stop, then around goldenrod with 2 stops, back out to river, head down towards the apartments and make 2 stops on oswego, and 2 stops in the apartment complex and exit out by the post office, making a right onto ogden (N), *THEN* continue your trip and let us know the time, please.