Varsity Sports - Year 1 - 2009

[doctorwho]

Opening thread to continue discussion here and determine support from readers' contributors here - and communication of those desires to Kathy Birkett - Ass't Superintendent.

[proschool]

So are you suggesting that MVHS has a varsity team in the year that it only has freshman and sophmores?

[doctorwho]

proschool said:

So are you suggesting that MVHS has a varsity team in the year that it only has freshman and sophmores?

For sports that are heavily club player driven - absolutely. Many of the best players on these teams play varsity all 4 years - or at least 3/4 years. They would be highly competitive in the Upstate 8 (11) in sports such as:

Boys Volleyball / Soccer
Girls Volleyball / Soccer
Baseball and Softball
Girls / Boys Basketball


Football is the one exception I see due to size / strength dependency - but I am not an expert on the football arena so i would defer to someone with more knowledge than me.

No they will not beat some teams ( NV - WV ) consistently who have as many club players and some are older - but 1. U8 is not the most evenly competitive conference 2. why should athletes who would be playing varsity if still at NV or WV not be able to do the same at MV ?

What about those freshman athletes that are 7th graders today and make a varsity team at NV or WV in 2009 - then have to step back to JV competiton their next year because there is no varsity team ?

The winning goal in WV's last playoff game against St. Charles scored by a Freshman -- if this was 2009 - should be have to forfeit playing varsity sports next year ?

Why not be able to have the student body have that same school spirit to root for varsity sports as our other 2 schools from day 1 ?

[bluemoonoden]

I have to disagree with Doc. MVHS may have several club players in soccer and volleyball for example but what about everyone else? You are only taking about a select few athletes. And the programs at WV and NV are established. It took NV about five years to get really competetive. This goes for all sports. My youngest is just finishing fourth grade and is a very good football player. He knows that when he plays it will be difficult although MV will have an advantage because so many of the teams in the Upstate 8 are really weak. (Elgin, South Elgin, Streamwood and East Aurora provided that school hasn't cut out its athletic program) Just look at Plainfield North and this is what MV is going to be like in the beginning. I don't know why anyone would want Freshman and Sophomores to play varsity or what the point of it is.

[momto4]

bluemoonoden said:

I don't know why anyone would want Freshman and Sophomores to play varsity or what the point of it is.

I'm not in a sporting family but I think this has already been asked and answered quite extensively here to the point that I agree with it.

I wouldn't want kids who are ready for Calculus to be forced to sit through another year of Algebra, why would you want kids who are ready for varsity to be held back?

[wvhsparent]

OK - Devil's advocate time.......

So in order to accommodate the few really talented (star players) you want a Varsity team, which would also mean that many players, that normally would not be Varsity material would have to also play varsity, in other words, elevated before they were ready. IHMO that would be a morale killer, that would end up dragging down your stars too. Better to have them play a notch down, temporarily, than field a poor team.

Also, that is one of the prices you must pay for the privilege of going to the new HS....Sorry...Don't like it? Move to a different attendance area then, or petition the Dist to allow your child to try-out for one of the established programs.

Your own admission is that Club sports are playing a larger role as far as scholarships go anyway.

[doctorwho]

wvhsparent said:

OK - Devil's advocate time.......

So in order to accommodate the few really talented (star players) you want a Varsity team, which would also mean that many players, that normally would not be Varsity material would have to also play varsity, in other words, elevated before they were ready. IHMO that would be a morale killer, that would end up dragging down your stars too. Better to have them play a notch down, temporarily, than field a poor team.

Also, that is one of the prices you must pay for the privilege of going to the new HS....Sorry...Don't like it? Move to a different attendance area then, or petition the Dist to allow your child to try-out for one of the established programs.

Your own admission is that Club sports are playing a larger role as far as scholarships go anyway.

Yes, but this is NOT about scholarships - this is about school sprit - team pride etc. - something you have to talk to these athletes about to better understand.

The sorry don't like it is sort of like _ America Love it or leave it -- I didn't like that argument back when and still think it is a weak one today.

Yes, some kids may move up to a level they might not have made ( see the arguments here from people who think that no one shuld play outside their age level regardless of skill - because then not enough kids can play -- this is sort of a happy medium in that it addresses both.

I can guarantee you in most of these sports - a large % of the Fresh / soph and JV teams are also club players - so don't underestimate the skill level already there. It is not like asking people to play who can't to fill in -- just that some who would be varsity players anyway ( or at many other schools ) but are blocked by upper classman no longer will be. They WOULD NOT be fielding poor teams, you are underestimating the amount of talent in this area.

If I did not think they would be competitive I would never make this pitch -- they will be no worse than middle of the pack in the Upstate 8 in these team sports. Why not have some successes to celebrate for the student body when the school opens ?

[justvote]

doctorwho said:

Opening thread to continue discussion here and determine support from readers' contributors here - and communication of those desires to Kathy Birkett - Ass't Superintendent.

I have been thinking alot about this, and I've asked a few people how NV handled this situation. Everyone I've asked has said that Neuqua opened with Freshman & Sophomore teams only. I would assume that the decision will be to field ALL sports varisity the first year or none. I can't imagine that they would cherry pick just a few of the sports for varsity and others as Fresh/Soph teams. That being said, I don't believe the district should field a varsity team in any sport the first year. I have a middle schooler who is a competitive swimmer. If we were going to MV, my daughter would probably be a varsity swimmer her first year. Would I want that as a parent? No, I would not. I would want her to swim with her peers.

[doctorwho]

bluemoonoden said:

I have to disagree with Doc. MVHS may have several club players in soccer and volleyball for example but what about everyone else? You are only taking about a select few athletes. And the programs at WV and NV are established. It took NV about five years to get really competetive. This goes for all sports. My youngest is just finishing fourth grade and is a very good football player. He knows that when he plays it will be difficult although MV will have an advantage because so many of the teams in the Upstate 8 are really weak. (Elgin, South Elgin, Streamwood and East Aurora provided that school hasn't cut out its athletic program) Just look at Plainfield North and this is what MV is going to be like in the beginning. I don't know why anyone would want Freshman and Sophomores to play varsity or what the point of it is.

You may disagree - but the issue is you are wrong on the volume of club players. IT IS NOT A FEW. Every varsity player on WV ( and I will make that same assumption for NV) girls VB teams for example is a club player and most for one of the top clubs in the country.
This is not about the FEW...

Examples I have already given: 7th grade middle school teams: Scullen - about 75% club players - Hill over 50% club players now - in 203 Lincoln 100% club players -- this is far beyond a few. Take the same schools ( and I only cover them because i am aware of them first hand) - for soccer and you will find at least the same percentages -- AND THIS IS 7th GRADE !

And it took NV 5 years to become competitive - in what sports ? Football made the playoffs in their 2nd season.

Agan, I think you are underestimating the club participation level in many sports in this area -- it is not Plainfield North.

[bluemoonoden]

momto4 said:

bluemoonoden said:

I don't know why anyone would want Freshman and Sophomores to play varsity or what the point of it is.

I'm not in a sporting family but I think this has already been asked and answered quite extensively here to the point that I agree with it.

I wouldn't want kids who are ready for Calculus to be forced to sit through another year of Algebra, why would you want kids who are ready for varsity to be held back?

[doctorwho]

justvote said:

doctorwho said:

Opening thread to continue discussion here and determine support from readers' contributors here - and communication of those desires to Kathy Birkett - Ass't Superintendent.

I have been thinking alot about this, and I've asked a few people how NV handled this situation. Everyone I've asked has said that Neuqua opened with Freshman & Sophomore teams only. I would assume that the decision will be to field ALL sports varisity the first year or none. I can't imagine that they would cherry pick just a few of the sports for varsity and others as Fresh/Soph teams. That being said, I don't believe the district should field a varsity team in any sport the first year. I have a middle schooler who is a competitive swimmer. If we were going to MV, my daughter would probably be a varsity swimmer her first year. Would I want that as a parent? No, I would not. I would want her to swim with her peers.

So you would hold her back ? OK - lets say she stays at NV - and if she made varsity you would tell her no ?

And our disagreement comes from the fact that her peers are those who can swim as well as she can - not those her exact age. Difference in viewpoint --

One of my daughters friends is a 7th grade swimmer and a 2 event city champ - her peers are not all 7th graders but those who can swim times in her range - IMHO.

[bluemoonoden]

Mom, it is apparent that you are not from a sporting family. I have two boys that do. There is no way in the world you can compare academic advancement to athletic advancement. These are two entirely different animals. An example. My oldest boy who is just finishing 7th grade is 6 feet tall and 230 lbs. He played football for three years and was ruined by the NYFL. Because of his size he was placed with 6th grade players when he was only in 3rd grade. The next year in 4th grade he was placed with 7th graders. He was so badly beaten up that he refused to play since. He has however decided to play next year in 8th grade at Still. This is the same type of thing that would happen if Freshman and Sophomores would play against Varsity players. Beside the physical differences it would be hard to cheer for teams that lose 48-0 and 55-0 which would happen in such a situation. Please Mom physical and mental abilities are totally different.

[doctorwho]

bluemoonoden said:

Mom, it is apparent that you are not from a sporting family. I have two boys that do. There is no way in the world you can compare academic advancement to athletic advancement. These are two entirely different animals. An example. My oldest boy who is just finishing 7th grade is 6 feet tall and 230 lbs. He played football for three years and was ruined by the NYFL. Because of his size he was placed with 6th grade players when he was only in 3rd grade. The next year in 4th grade he was placed with 7th graders. He was so badly beaten up that he refused to play since. He has however decided to play next year in 8th grade at Still. This is the same type of thing that would happen if Freshman and Sophomores would play against Varsity players. Beside the physical differences it would be hard to cheer for teams that lose 48-0 and 55-0 which would happen in such a situation. Please Mom physical and mental abilities are totally different.

Again, although admittedly not being on expert in the football player movement thru the ranks, and not trying to make comments on something I don't know - my general assumption ( which your note seems to support and you have better experience in this than me) is that Football would have to be the exception based on the pure physical nature of the sport as a main ingredient -- this is not true for ALL sports as an overriding factor.

[justvote]

doctorwho said:

justvote said:

I have been thinking alot about this, and I've asked a few people how NV handled this situation. Everyone I've asked has said that Neuqua opened with Freshman & Sophomore teams only. I would assume that the decision will be to field ALL sports varisity the first year or none. I can't imagine that they would cherry pick just a few of the sports for varsity and others as Fresh/Soph teams. That being said, I don't believe the district should field a varsity team in any sport the first year. I have a middle schooler who is a competitive swimmer. If we were going to MV, my daughter would probably be a varsity swimmer her first year. Would I want that as a parent? No, I would not. I would want her to swim with her peers.

So you would hold her back ? OK - lets say she stays at NV - and if she made varsity you would tell her no ?

And our disagreement comes from the fact that her peers are those who can swim as well as she can - not those her exact age. Difference in viewpoint --

One of my daughters friends is a 7th grade swimmer and a 2 event city champ - her peers are not all 7th graders but those who can swim times in her range - IMHO.

Actually my point is that going to NV she probably would NOT make varsity as a Freshman due to the competitiveness at the upper levels, but she probably would make varsity at MV, because there are no upper levels. If MV opens with varsity sports she would swim varsity whether or not she's ready. I'd rather her swim Freshman or JV as a Fresh/Soph.

[justvote]

doctorwho said:

bluemoonoden said:

Mom, it is apparent that you are not from a sporting family. I have two boys that do. There is no way in the world you can compare academic advancement to athletic advancement. These are two entirely different animals. An example. My oldest boy who is just finishing 7th grade is 6 feet tall and 230 lbs. He played football for three years and was ruined by the NYFL. Because of his size he was placed with 6th grade players when he was only in 3rd grade. The next year in 4th grade he was placed with 7th graders. He was so badly beaten up that he refused to play since. He has however decided to play next year in 8th grade at Still. This is the same type of thing that would happen if Freshman and Sophomores would play against Varsity players. Beside the physical differences it would be hard to cheer for teams that lose 48-0 and 55-0 which would happen in such a situation. Please Mom physical and mental abilities are totally different.

Again, although admittedly not being on expert in the football player movement thru the ranks, and not trying to make comments on something I don't know - my general assumption ( which your note seems to support and you have better experience in this than me) is that Football would have to be the exception based on the pure physical nature of the sport as a main ingredient -- this is not true for ALL sports as an overriding factor.

That's the problem. How can you make exceptions? Either you open with varsity sports or you don't. I can't see the Administration picking and choosing which sports to field a varsity team and which ones you don't. It's all or nothing (IMHO).