Boundaries if we leave BB

[bob]

Well things might just look bad for the Macom site and everyone who lives near the EJ line.

Canadian National Railway Co., Canada's largest railroad, agreed to buy most of the Elgin, Joliet & Eastern Railway Co. from U.S. Steel Corp. for $300 million to add capacity and bypass Chicago-area congestion.

U.S. Steel will retain a portion of the freight line supporting the company's Gary Works in northwest Indiana and rename it the Gary Railway, the companies said today in a joint statement.

The deal lets the Montreal-based carrier avoid tie-ups on Chicago's rail network by using EJ&E lines on the city's outskirts, while also giving CN Rail access to EJ&E customers including Mittal Steel, Sun Steel Co. and Akzo Nobel Chemicals.

``The Chicago region has long been a source of congestion,'' Morgan Stanley analyst William Greene in New York wrote in a note to investors today. ``This should lead to better overall network efficiencies,'' said Greene, who has an ``equal- weight'' rating on Canadian National.

Canadian National rose 97 cents to C$56.90 at 4:10 p.m. in Toronto. Pittsburgh-based U.S. Steel gained 65 cents to $105.05 in New York Stock Exchange composite trading.

CN Rail plans to invest about $100 million for integration, new connections and infrastructure improvements to add capacity on the EJ&E line, the company said.

``This has been a long time coming and fills in the last gap we had in this network,'' Chief Executive Officer Hunter Harrison said on a conference call.

`Looking at Other Opportunities'

The agreement is subject to approval by the U.S. Surface Transportation Board. If successful, the deal should close by mid-2008, Harrison said. ``We'll still be looking at other opportunities'' for acquisitions, he said.

The EJ&E purchase, to be financed with debt and cash, will add C$100 million ($99.4 million) in revenue to CN Rail, which had revenue of C$7.72 billion last year, Chief Financial Officer Claude Mongeau said on the call.

EJ&E should add C$20 million to CN Rail's Ebitda, or earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortization, Mongeau said.

This just screams more train traffic on the EJ.

[proschool]

macy said:

momof3 said:

The walmart discussion reminded all of us of the train tracks and train station and all of the traffic problems that will create. Also reminded me, at least, of the high power lines and switching station and how close that will be to the school site.

ETA - does anyone have any idea where the school would be located on the AME property?

For the macom site, it is on the switching station end, right?

So do you pick the better location or do you pick the least hazards?

Well, we'll see what the sb decides.

I'm not picking any location. If you had caught my earlier posts, I said I'd be okay with a northern location if it was the only feasible spot for a third school.

Wow... I was just bringing up a serious hazard in terms of traffic if a Walmart was placed on BB. Why the sensitivity? It's just my opinion. Obviously, the majority of this board discount my thoughts.

But would you be okay going to a northern location?

Why in the world would they build a Walmart on Route 59 if it presents a safety hazard?

Exactly what attendance areas will cross Route 59 and 75th Street if we build at BB? How many ES will pass through that same intersection with a southern site? Which ones will go throughy the intersection with a northern site?

[momof3]

macy said:

I'm not picking any location. If you had caught my earlier posts, I said I'd be okay with a northern location if it was the only feasible spot for a third school.

Wow... I was just bringing up a serious hazard in terms of traffic if a Walmart was placed on BB. Why the sensitivity? It's just my opinion. Obviously, the majority of this board discount my thoughts as far as the reality of a Walmart at BB and the traffic implications.

I didn't mean to offend you. It was just my opinion. Sorry.

No need to apologize you did not offend me at all. I wasn't trying to tear you up, I just wanted some backup for the walmart claim. Whether you love BB or hate BB I think it's pretty clear that there will be retail on the corner of 75th and 59. We can all agree on that. I don't think it's an issue and you do. We agree to disagree.

[macy]

proschool said:

macy said:

I'm not picking any location. If you had caught my earlier posts, I said I'd be okay with a northern location if it was the only feasible spot for a third school.

Wow... I was just bringing up a serious hazard in terms of traffic if a Walmart was placed on BB. Why the sensitivity? It's just my opinion. Obviously, the majority of this board discount my thoughts.

But would you be okay going to a northern location?

Why in the world would they build a Walmart on Route 59 if it presents a safety hazard?

Exactly what attendance areas will cross Route 59 and 75th Street if we build at BB? How many ES will pass through that same intersection with a southern site? Which ones will go throughy the intersection with a northern site?

Proschool,

The simple answer is that I've been in favor of a third school since the 05 referendum. I was against BB because of the lawsuit from the get go. I'm sick we are in the position we are in today because we went all out on BB. Some may not like that, I'm sorry, it's my opinion. We need the space NOW!!!

If a Walmart goes in at 75/59, I'll be against it because I think it's a traffic nightmare waiting to happen. The SB has already said they can't afford the site and it's improbable they will select it so I'm unsure why some are so angry at my thoughts on the traffic increase.

Other than that, I don't know the answer to where to go from here because the only property I've heard being discussed is Macom. I commented on the safety of the power lines because I'd heard that it was deemed safe. That's it. Some don't like that, nor agree, that's fair. Until data is presented and the city signs off on it's safety, who would agree? Good lord, I wouldn't send my children to a site that I thought was hazardous? I'm sad some on this site think I would.

I'm sorry I engaged in the discussion tonight actually. It's really gotten to a point where it's beyond being objective here.

I'm done for a while. The SB will do the best they can in deciding where and what we can afford, not to mention when it will be built. That's all I can hope for.

I agree with DrW though. If a far northern site is selected (not talking about WVHS) and somehow, my elementary school is sent there, I'm out. We'll move or private school. I can agree with Dr W's thoughts and logic on that.

[proschool]

I don't blame Macy for walking away for a while.

Her point was that high school kids traveling past Route 59 and 75th will create traffic safety concerns if a Walmart was placed at that same location.

My counterpoint was that moving the school site to St Johns or macom could mean even more kids passing through that same intersection.

BB site means that East Owen and Fry pass through that intersection. Watts comes down Ogden and turns at Commons(which will be completed). East Cowlishaw could do the same thing. West Cowlishaw will come straight down Commons. West Owen and East Gombert will be walkers. West Gombert will come up Frontenac. White eagle will come up Commons or Meadowridge. So even if a Walmart arrives, one and one half schools will pass it.

Does anyone else care to weigh in?

[Arch]

If I was PREIT and wanted a lifestyle mall, I would throw the WalMart card out into the community to cause a stink then the community would DEMAND a lifestyle mall over a WalMart.

Original Hope solved.. not because they had to work hard to sell it to the community... it's because the people DEMANDED it.

Brilliant!

[macy]

archwinsome said:

If I was PREIT and wanted a lifestyle mall, I would throw the WalMart card out into the community to cause a stink then the community would DEMAND a lifestyle mall over a WalMart.

Original Hope solved.. not because they had to work hard to sell it to the community... it's because the people DEMANDED it.

Brilliant!

Arch,

While I agree with your strategy, one only has to look at all the empty strip malls/developments around.

What types of retail would be agressively pursuing such a location with all the open available/cheaper space around?

Look at all the empty spots in the retail centers around town. Who is going to pay top dollar to get into that spot when there are other very attractive open spots available?

Name the small retailer that would pursue such a spot? Curious?

Or, the specialty retailer? That spot is ideal for a big box retailer like Walmart.

There is a serious "lifestyle center" being developed down 59 with retail such as Von Maur, Ann Taylor loft, etc.. Who is left in the market for that spot on 59/75? It's a big box retailer
location. No?

[Arch]

Seems to me it would be easier/cheaper while maintaining the higher volume corner location to physically combine the Sams/Walmart buildings up the road and up-convert it to a super center while renewing the lease again. Target did a great job up on Jefferson/59 with the upconvert.

Out of curiosity, do you consider the store brand as the factor to determine what's a 'serious lifestyle center' versus a 'non serious' one? Are you showing some artificial socio-economic difference with serious/non serious?

[rew]

There is only one track for EJ&J. You cannot have more than one train on one track at a time. There is a finite amount of train traffic that can travel there.


ETA - I am not defending MACOM, I am a big BB fan. But you currently have six ESs crossing the same tracks to get to WVHS, and AME increases that number to nine, MACOM reduces that number to one. I'm not seeing the negative.

[bob]

CN said they are looking to bypass the Chicago area by using the EJ line. There are going to be a lot more trains running down the EJ line now.

The EJ line is a double track just south of Wolf's Crossing and north of North Aurora. It goes back to a single track south of 111th.


I wouldn't be surprised if CN tries to add a second track in between the two.

[rew]

The second track has been discussed and it was made it clear that if that were to be pursued, which is very $$$$, the RR would have to pitch in for overpasses/underpasses at crossings. The current traffic is about thirty trains a week.

[Arch]

10 minute window leading up to 7:30AM at fox river commons (Walmart/Sam's Club) this morning:

27 vehicles total came into the area in front of both stores during that time period. 1 Pace bus came in as I was leaving. 4 vehicles vacated the area (assuming the bus continued its route and did not park there for the day).

Net traffic around the time HS starts: 3 vehicles a minute, roughly 1 every 20 seconds. Entering vehicles were spread between Rt59 entrance and Ogden entrance.

There's my homework. If you have differing information about how this greatly increases traffic where a Walmart exists, at this time of day, please post it.

[bob]

rew said:

The second track has been discussed and it was made it clear that if that were to be pursued, which is very $$$$, the RR would have to pitch in for overpasses/underpasses at crossings. The current traffic is about thirty trains a week.

That is just EJ traffic. CN is much larger and looking to route trains down the EJ line. This issue is bigger than the 3rd HS.

Double tracks are already in place in the areas mentioned above. Dont't get caught thinking that it couldn't happen. Getting trains to bypass Chicago, saves a lot of money for these railroads.

[wvhsparent]

OK I was away at a meeting last nite...Hoo Boy! many pages to read!!

I found out why Costco has been included in all the litigation. The have a Restrictive covenent on the rest of the BB property to not allow certain types of establishments, namely Sam's/Walmart and a few others I have never heard of before, for 15 years.
I was also told by someone in the know with Aurora, that there will be access to the school from Rt 59. Most likely at the exsisting Traffic light by Lowes.

[rew]

Bob, even if the trrain traffic increases, it increases for the AME site as well and you have more schools crossing the tracks with the AME site, so I don't understand why it is a bigger negative for Macom than AME.