Sun Blog - compare and contrast

[WeBe204]

I thought this was an interesting posting on the potluck.
blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/newsblog/2008/03/its_official_d204_parents_sue.html#comments

In light of the formal lawsuit, I am reposting my late response on the previous blog in response to Warrior Teacher (March 8, 3:15):

We share the same vocation and I think you have a great "teachable moment" here. I hope you take advantage of it to share some valuable lessons:
1.People will not always agree - our democratic society allows for this, along with paths to peaceful resolution
2.Freedom of speech and freedom of the press are precious rights -we should appreciate them
3.Stereotypes are hurtful and wrong - we should all do our best to stop perpetuating them
4.Sources of information are not always reliable - they should be examined and critiqued for validity

Have your students compare and contrast two websites: www.nsfoc.org and www.nsfocfraud.com. Which one acknowledges that people have differing opinions on this matter? Which one says that all people in the district should be treated with respect, including the district administration? Which one resorts to stereotyping and using pejorative adjectives like "greedy", "arrogant", and "elitist" to describe people that live in certain demographic areas or subdivisions? They might be surprised at the results. I'm sure you are an excellent teacher and can think of more, or better, aspects of the websites to explore.

In case you haven't examined previous blogs in detail, here are just a few quick examples of the personal attacks and stereotyped comments my neighbors and I have withstood, along with comments about our children:

** I can't believe how many "soccer moms" who live in TG and WE are sitting at their computers complaining all day long.....how do your husbands stay married to women such as yourselves.
GET A JOB OR HOBBY (other than sitting on the computer and complaning all day long)
** Just a bunch of spoiled whiners! Get over it. If you don't like it move out of the district.
** White Eagle needs to get over themselves! Their children aren't any more special! The whole fight is over not wanting to send their kids to WV! I am so sorry! In my opinion, White Eagle residents have been living in denial all along.
** I have a question. How many Black or Hispanic parents were at the White Eagle clubhouse meeting last night? Thought so.
Followed by...
I love this post, because it brings to light the fact the room at the White Eagle Clubhouse was full of egotistical "I-deserve-it", types that will do everything they can to stop Metea.
OK, I'll type it. It's not the distance, the splitting, etc. They are EMBARRASSED to have to say they are going to Waubaonsie. (which my kids go to and is a great school)
** I wholeheatedly agree that WE and TG need to get over it. Their kids will survive going to WV, after all it is the same district and the same curiculum. Additionally all of their Abercrombie wearing friends will be headed to WV with them; welcome to the world beyond your elitist neighborhoods.
** The sense of entitlement and all the me, me, I's. It is no wonder TG & WE have a poor reputation and you're children have become selfish, spoiled, rotten little monsters. Now I know where they get it from. It's contagious... I hope you all get well soon!

I could go on, but I think you get the point. This cuts both ways. Oddly enough, if you read the blogs I don't think you'll find one criticism of WV, its students, its teachers, or the curriculum from people who live in Tall Grass or White Eagle (or anyone else who disagrees with the actions of the SB). It's pretty clear to me that it's pure conjecture and stereotyping of people in s/sw Naperville that has the WV students feeling bad. But, I would suggest to you that much of what they are repeating in the classroom is coming from their own homes. I assure you as a fellow teacher it is certainly not coming from mine.

I wish you luck in helping the WV students weather the storm.

[sushi]

IMO, WE & TG will go to WV after Metea is built on Eola, and this will come back to haunt them. It is too bad this message is being passed on to kids by their parents and by kids to kids.

For the record, there are a lot of good, caring people in WE (and I'm sure in TG); people who are happy to be going to a school with 1200 less students!

[steckmom]

sushi said:

IMO, WE & TG will go to WV after Metea is built on Eola, and this will come back to haunt them. It is too bad this message is being passed on to kids by their parents and by kids to kids.

For the record, there are a lot of good, caring people in WE (and I'm sure in TG); people who are happy to be going to a school with 1200 less students!

I think that's just drama. There may be a few parents out there that are passing down these ideas to their kids, but I suspect that the vast majority of parents with kids headed to WV, have not said a single negative word about WE or TG to their kids.

[WeBe204]

sushi said:

IMO, WE & TG will go to WV after Metea is built on Eola, and this will come back to haunt them. It is too bad this message is being passed on to kids by their parents and by kids to kids.

For the record, there are a lot of good, caring people in WE (and I'm sure in TG); people who are happy to be going to a school with 1200 less students!

I am not really following what the above has to do with my posting. The above posting is really was about tactics. I hear what you are saying (and saying and saying ) I do believe there is a certain bandwagon effect here in regards to TG/WE.

I also think you should really think about trying to be part of the solution. My Realtor friends are already telling me that the TG/WE bashing campaign is starting to have an impact on potential buyer perceptions. I think indirectly you are playing a part in this.

I also think some of this bashing comes from long held grudes and not just the current situaiton. But that might be a bit of a reach.

[gatordog]

brad204 said:

I also think you should really think about trying to be part of the solution. My Realtor friends are already telling me that the TG/WE bashing campaign is starting to have an impact on potential buyer perceptions. I think indirectly you are playing a part in this.

.

These nasty posts and finger pointing attitudes, picking on TG and WE are completely ridiculous. However, many of us are very worried about the social costs to the lawsuit filling. Among both adults and kids. This, and the real estate word on the street, are unfortunate manifestations of such social costs, I am sad to say.

When faced with legal action against our SD, the public's hands are tied. It should come as no surprise that some will react emotionally and irrationally. When the NSFOC minority regrettably opened up with their lawsuit salvo, they exposed themselves and their not-involved-whatsoever-neighbors at risk for these social consequences. Choices have consequences....did they expect anything different?

For me, to be part of the solution, in immediate time I will remind people I talk with that the lawsuit is not a "TG/WE thing". I know for a fact that many there dont support this. And as a future (unless things change) member of the WV community, I pledge to squelch any nonsense I hear around the school about areas who "didnt want to come to WV". Unfortunately, I might have to be doing this for years and years.

[JB]

brad204 said:

I thought this was an interesting posting on the potluck.
blogs.suburbanchicagonews.com/newsblog/2008/03/its_official_d204_parents_sue.html#comments

In light of the formal lawsuit, I am reposting my late response on the previous blog in response to Warrior Teacher (March 8, 3:15):

We share the same vocation and I think you have a great "teachable moment" here. I hope you take advantage of it to share some valuable lessons:
1.People will not always agree - our democratic society allows for this, along with paths to peaceful resolution
2.Freedom of speech and freedom of the press are precious rights -we should appreciate them
3.Stereotypes are hurtful and wrong - we should all do our best to stop perpetuating them
4.Sources of information are not always reliable - they should be examined and critiqued for validity

Have your students compare and contrast two websites: www.nsfoc.org and www.nsfocfraud.com. Which one acknowledges that people have differing opinions on this matter? Which one says that all people in the district should be treated with respect, including the district administration? Which one resorts to stereotyping and using pejorative adjectives like "greedy", "arrogant", and "elitist" to describe people that live in certain demographic areas or subdivisions? They might be surprised at the results. I'm sure you are an excellent teacher and can think of more, or better, aspects of the websites to explore.

In case you haven't examined previous blogs in detail, here are just a few quick examples of the personal attacks and stereotyped comments my neighbors and I have withstood, along with comments about our children:

** I can't believe how many "soccer moms" who live in TG and WE are sitting at their computers complaining all day long.....how do your husbands stay married to women such as yourselves.
GET A JOB OR HOBBY (other than sitting on the computer and complaning all day long)
** Just a bunch of spoiled whiners! Get over it. If you don't like it move out of the district.
** White Eagle needs to get over themselves! Their children aren't any more special! The whole fight is over not wanting to send their kids to WV! I am so sorry! In my opinion, White Eagle residents have been living in denial all along.
** I have a question. How many Black or Hispanic parents were at the White Eagle clubhouse meeting last night? Thought so.
Followed by...
I love this post, because it brings to light the fact the room at the White Eagle Clubhouse was full of egotistical "I-deserve-it", types that will do everything they can to stop Metea.
OK, I'll type it. It's not the distance, the splitting, etc. They are EMBARRASSED to have to say they are going to Waubaonsie. (which my kids go to and is a great school)
** I wholeheatedly agree that WE and TG need to get over it. Their kids will survive going to WV, after all it is the same district and the same curiculum. Additionally all of their Abercrombie wearing friends will be headed to WV with them; welcome to the world beyond your elitist neighborhoods.
** The sense of entitlement and all the me, me, I's. It is no wonder TG & WE have a poor reputation and you're children have become selfish, spoiled, rotten little monsters. Now I know where they get it from. It's contagious... I hope you all get well soon!

I could go on, but I think you get the point. This cuts both ways. Oddly enough, if you read the blogs I don't think you'll find one criticism of WV, its students, its teachers, or the curriculum from people who live in Tall Grass or White Eagle (or anyone else who disagrees with the actions of the SB). It's pretty clear to me that it's pure conjecture and stereotyping of people in s/sw Naperville that has the WV students feeling bad. But, I would suggest to you that much of what they are repeating in the classroom is coming from their own homes. I assure you as a fellow teacher it is certainly not coming from mine.

I wish you luck in helping the WV students weather the storm.

Has anyone actually compared these 2 sites as suggested above? Comments?

I'd only say that by polarizing communities, you stifle dialogue and develop an Us vs. Them mentality, which is an ugly thing. I hate to think what the long term effects will be on all of us. When you need to prove someone wrong before you can be right, there is a problem.

To borrow the idea from GD's tagline, if we want to get along, we need to understand each other first.

[steckmom]

Superficially, without making any comment on the content, I would be much more likely to trust the SM site. It looks more professional, less jarring. The NSFOC site, with it's glaring colors and immediate request for $, looks like it's selling some cheap plastic $29.99 item that will solve all my household needs.


Other than that, my only comment is that one site is suing the SD and will cost me money that I didn't vote for, and the other isn't.

[WeBe204]

steckmom said:

Superficially, without making any comment on the content, I would be much more likely to trust the SM site. It looks more professional, less jarring. The NSFOC site, with it's glaring colors and immediate request for $, looks like it's selling some cheap plastic $29.99 item that will solve all my household needs.


Other than that, my only comment is that one site is suing the SD and will cost me money that I didn't vote for, and the other isn't.

Yes, and I did notice they changed the header graphic as well on the SM site

[doctorwho]

steckmom said:

Superficially, without making any comment on the content, I would be much more likely to trust the SM site. It looks more professional, less jarring. The NSFOC site, with it's glaring colors and immediate request for $, looks like it's selling some cheap plastic $29.99 item that will solve all my household needs.


Other than that, my only comment is that one site is suing the SD and will cost me money that I didn't vote for, and the other isn't.

and you don't think that is largely because most of it's members and signees ( much like the recent lte wirters - have what they want ? Email for the site signed by a Brookdale rsident-- LTE in SUn today - Brookdale resident - what's amazing for an area that voted 80% no for a 3rd High school- everyone seems to be pro school now. Must just be that 20%..

So it's OK t- have your facts and perceptions wrong - and slam generalities if you're not suing -?

We didn't vote for AME either - that's the gist of it -- and pleae do not read me the referendum verbage - I have it memorized.

[doctorwho]

brad204 said:

sushi said:

IMO, WE & TG will go to WV after Metea is built on Eola, and this will come back to haunt them. It is too bad this message is being passed on to kids by their parents and by kids to kids.

For the record, there are a lot of good, caring people in WE (and I'm sure in TG); people who are happy to be going to a school with 1200 less students!

I am not really following what the above has to do with my posting. The above posting is really was about tactics. I hear what you are saying (and saying and saying ) I do believe there is a certain bandwagon effect here in regards to TG/WE.

I also think you should really think about trying to be part of the solution. My Realtor friends are already telling me that the TG/WE bashing campaign is starting to have an impact on potential buyer perceptions. I think indirectly you are playing a part in this.

I also think some of this bashing comes from long held grudes and not just the current situaiton. But that might be a bit of a reach.

not a reach at all-- there are areas that have held that grudge for 10 years since NV opened - and much of that was generated by it's leaders.

[steckmom]

doctorwho said:

steckmom said:

Superficially, without making any comment on the content, I would be much more likely to trust the SM site. It looks more professional, less jarring. The NSFOC site, with it's glaring colors and immediate request for $, looks like it's selling some cheap plastic $29.99 item that will solve all my household needs.


Other than that, my only comment is that one site is suing the SD and will cost me money that I didn't vote for, and the other isn't.

and you don't think that is largely because most of it's members and signees ( much like the recent lte wirters - have what they want ? Email for the site signed by a Brookdale rsident-- LTE in SUn today - Brookdale resident - what's amazing for an area that voted 80% no for a 3rd High school- everyone seems to be pro school now. Must just be that 20%..

So it's OK t- have your facts and perceptions wrong - and slam generalities if you're not suing -?

We didn't vote for AME either - that's the gist of it -- and pleae do not read me the referendum verbage - I have it memorized.

I don't give a rat's behind as to what is on either site with respect to accuracy of facts.

The only fact that I care about is that one of the site's organizations has decided to sue our school district.

My only hope is that the SD can make this go away or that the $204 piece of junk the NFSOC is selling works.

The polarazation of the community occurred long before this suit was filed. We're just seeing the effects.

[doctorwho]

steckmom said:

doctorwho said:

and you don't think that is largely because most of it's members and signees ( much like the recent lte wirters - have what they want ? Email for the site signed by a Brookdale rsident-- LTE in SUn today - Brookdale resident - what's amazing for an area that voted 80% no for a 3rd High school- everyone seems to be pro school now. Must just be that 20%..

So it's OK t- have your facts and perceptions wrong - and slam generalities if you're not suing -?

We didn't vote for AME either - that's the gist of it -- and pleae do not read me the referendum verbage - I have it memorized.

I don't give a rat's behind as to what is on either site with respect to accuracy of facts.

The only fact that I care about is that one of the site's organizations has decided to sue our school district.

My only hope is that the SD can make this go away or that the $204 piece of junk the NFSOC is selling works.

The polarazation of the community occurred long before this suit was filed. We're just seeing the effects.

that's a problem IMHO -- we are allowing people to sell BS and not question them -- that starts with ourleaders and goes through the entire community. Few people have any knowledge of what the truth is anymore on anything, because they is so much spin and smoke., and info none of us are privy too. What a great atmosphere is mistrust.

I too hope for a quick resolution and very little cost - but let's not go crazy over the cost with what we have already pissed away for lawyers and paperwork.

yes, the polarization started over 10 years ago before NVHS opened and has been kept alive by some, all that time waiting for a chance to dredge it all up again...

[Avenging Eagle]

steckmom said:

The polarazation of the community occurred long before this suit was filed. We're just seeing the effects.

Or they have been smoked out of their holes because of this chance to get revenge?

Or they are coming out of the woodwork and being exposed for the stereotypical hypocrites they are?

Is that what you are trying to say?

Even sushi gave the nsfoc site an A+ for writing style. Any 204 english teacher would give the NSFOCfraud website a C- or D for its writing style and substance.

[steckmom]

doctorwho said:

that's a problem IMHO -- we are allowing people to sell BS and not question them -- that starts with ourleaders and goes through the entire community. Few people have any knowledge of what the truth is anymore on anything, because they is so much spin and smoke., and info none of us are privy too. What a great atmosphere is mistrust.

I do agree that we have to question, but that fact of the matter is that spin is part of human nature. Even little kids do it. We do need to question, but we also have to learn to be savvy enough to look past the spin.

[steckmom]

avengingeagle said:

steckmom said:

The polarazation of the community occurred long before this suit was filed. We're just seeing the effects.

Or they have been smoked out of their holes because of this chance to get revenge?

Or they are coming out of the woodwork and being exposed for the stereotypical hypocrites they are?

Is that what you are trying to say?

Not exactly, but kind of, yes. I wasn't here at the time of NVHS, but I certainly heard all about it from all sides.

Hey, I'm not innocent here, we all stereotype. But for goodness sake, that isn't the issue.