D204 proposed Metea boundaries - Part 3

[d204mom]

doctorwho said:

momof156graders said:

Dr. D did say they were going to clean up some of the elementary school boundaries. The middle of the map is a mess. The color coded elementary school boundary map looks like a stained glass mosaic, instead of clear blocks of color to indicate attendance areas.
Owen is represented as being south of Bailey Rd. but it is actually north. Are there any other major discrepancies?

Yes, we found - the area represented as the far NE part of Watts is actually 203 - they used the wrong EW street to color code -

Don't all those safety town kids attend Watts?

One other thing I noticed - LeHigh Station already has 68 kids in the system and it's not even finished - that seems like a lot. Add in Plaza on NY and the other development & it could be significant.

[forthekids]

archwinsome said:

corky said:

Keep in mind that the district is planning to re-do boundaries
K-12. This means that elementary, middle and high school boundaries will be affected.

I believe that Owen will split: Brighton Ridge and West Glen stay at Owen. Villages of Meadow Lakes and Chicory Place will stay west of 59. Possibly Chicory to White Eagle and Villages back to McCarty. This split would move over 300 students out of Owen, which will probably create a shift for students attending Springbrook, Clow, Welch and Builta.

I think the middle schools will see shifts in their population as well, mainly because of the WVHS gold campus converting back to a middle school in 09. Scullen, Gregory and Still in particular.

When looking at capacity numbers that the district has put out, there are a few elementary schools that are well under capacity.
In order are: Peterson (-406), Watts (-319), Owen (-288), Springbrook (-267), Cowlishaw (-247) and White Eagle (-244). Because of these numbers and available seats, I think there will be shifting all around the district starting with elementary.

District-wide boundary changes rarely (if ever) happen in this district. I think a large portion of the district will see changes of some sort. Some will be more radical than others, but we will all feel it.

These are very misleading numbers too. Earlier I had pointed out that a whole wing @ Watts is devoted to the Basics programs for non-included, semi included and children who need other supported educational work. With that program there, its 'additional capacity' is really just the 1 empty classroom that gets used throughout the day for intervention work and next year that classroom will be full because the 3rd grade this year is too large and it fill that in when they are in 4th. Toss All Day K into the mix and they are 'full' even though their 'capacity' shows on a piece of paper they have room. They won't.

I think your numbers for White Eagle are incorrect. White Eagle is one of the smaller elementary schools and I believe it is at or over capacity at present. It could not hold kids from Chicory.

[gatordog]

sleeplessinnpvl said:

Say you did redistrict Owen west like you said. You now need to fill Owen again. Would you pull Welch north of 87th? I don't think you can pull from Clow or Springbrook because they are walkers I think. But if you combined Welch north and Owen east into Owen and made that all go to NV, then your boundary would be a nice square bordered by 75th St and Rt 59. But what does adding Owen west do to McCarty and White Eagle capacity? What a mess.

If Welch N of 87th st goes to Owen, and then comes back to NV..... That might be ok. I hesitate to say I like it, because that pulls them from a ES that is directly in their neighborhood.

However, if Welch N goes to Owen, then on to WV (probably thru Still MS), I would say that is plain wrong. Get this: They would not go to their neighborhood ES, nor their closest MS, nor their closest HS. They would be 0 for 3 and that is not right at all.

[sleeplessinnpvl]

gatordog said:

sleeplessinnpvl said:

Say you did redistrict Owen west like you said. You now need to fill Owen again. Would you pull Welch north of 87th? I don't think you can pull from Clow or Springbrook because they are walkers I think. But if you combined Welch north and Owen east into Owen and made that all go to NV, then your boundary would be a nice square bordered by 75th St and Rt 59. But what does adding Owen west do to McCarty and White Eagle capacity? What a mess.

If Welch N of 87th st goes to Owen, and then comes back to NV..... That might be ok. I hesitate to say I like it, because that pulls them from a ES that is directly in their neighborhood.

However, if Welch N goes to Owen, then on to WV (probably thru Still MS), I would say that is plain wrong. Get this: They would not go to their neighborhood ES, nor their closest MS, nor their closest HS. They would be 0 for 3 and that is not right at all.

I was proposing they would go on to NV. That way, you have only added the Owen east into the NV population from proposal 5A. Welch north was already in that population. So Owen east replaces Old Wheatland west of 59 in the 5A proposal. Welch north would reunite with the Welch south folks maybe at middle school (didn't crunch numbers) and definitely at the HS level.

[gatordog]

proschool said:

Sending Owen to MV would mean that someone in my neigborhood (the Villages of Meadow Lakes) could have one child in elementary school at 87th and Modaff and another in high school at Eola and Biltner. It's just not realistic to expect a family to be split between two schools that are so far from eachother.....

I agree with you, proschool. This same thinking applies to Gombert-Thatchers Grove portion in your neighborhood, as well.

Imagine if your area goes to MV: you already have distance penalty for ES assignment (no neighborhood ES no matter which one they send you to). Yes you do have neighborhood MS in Still, but then that would be a split feeder. I dont see any way Still could be a 100% feeder to MV.

I would have to say, such an assignment would be a significantly worse deal than, for example , a Cowlishaw main and Watts assigment to MV. Yes, they would have a distance penalty, but at least not for their six ES years. And also, they very likely wouldnt have to be assigned to a split MS.

[corky]

All day kindergarten will use another classroom next year in each elementary school. I imagine this has been taken into consideration by the SD with regard to classrooms that are used for special ed and inclusion situations. I still think there is room on the elementary level for movement and shifting district wide to accomodate all day kindergarten and special ed and inclusion needs.

[sleeplessinnpvl]

Now that I better understand your situation proschool, it makes me realize how strange some of the boundaries are in the central part. I personally think what you currently have going with an ES on the far east and WV on the far west is asking too much. It makes sense to rectify the situation now when people are going to be shuffled around anyway. So I bet that if anyone submitted a proposal that didn't address every neighborhood and where it goes, the admin won't even consider it. I could be wrong, but I still think that there needs some work from K through 12. Hopefully in doing so, they can put you in an ES that is closer.

[yeson321]

gatordog said:

proschool said:

Sending Owen to MV would mean that someone in my neigborhood (the Villages of Meadow Lakes) could have one child in elementary school at 87th and Modaff and another in high school at Eola and Biltner. It's just not realistic to expect a family to be split between two schools that are so far from eachother.....

I agree with you, proschool. This same thinking applies to Gombert-Thatchers Grove portion in your neighborhood, as well.

Imagine if your area goes to MV: you already have distance penalty for ES assignment (no neighborhood ES no matter which one they send you to). Yes you do have neighborhood MS in Still, but then that would be a split feeder. I dont see any way Still could be a 100% feeder to MV.

I would have to say, such an assignment would be a significantly worse deal than, for example , a Cowlishaw main and Watts assigment to MV. Yes, they would have a distance penalty, but at least not for their six ES years. And also, they very likely wouldnt have to be assigned to a split MS.

I would welcome a split for May Watts from any middle school assignment if that would mean that we would be able to stay at WVHS and avoid the distance/travel issues to MV.

[Arch]

corky said:

All day kindergarten will use another classroom next year in each elementary school. I imagine this has been taken into consideration by the SD with regard to classrooms that are used for special ed and inclusion situations. I still think there is room on the elementary level for movement and shifting district wide to accomodate all day kindergarten and special ed and inclusion needs.

I personally think the idea of shuffling around the children who need the special ed program is probably one of the absolute worst things one can do to them. They are already the ones who can least handle change and even the transportation to/from school. It goes completely against their elevated need for stability, predictability and for most, less sensory overload.

[doctorwho]

gatordog said:

proschool said:

Sending Owen to MV would mean that someone in my neigborhood (the Villages of Meadow Lakes) could have one child in elementary school at 87th and Modaff and another in high school at Eola and Biltner. It's just not realistic to expect a family to be split between two schools that are so far from eachother.....

I agree with you, proschool. This same thinking applies to Gombert-Thatchers Grove portion in your neighborhood, as well.

Imagine if your area goes to MV: you already have distance penalty for ES assignment (no neighborhood ES no matter which one they send you to). Yes you do have neighborhood MS in Still, but then that would be a split feeder. I dont see any way Still could be a 100% feeder to MV.

I would have to say, such an assignment would be a significantly worse deal than, for example , a Cowlishaw main and Watts assigment to MV. Yes, they would have a distance penalty, but at least not for their six ES years. And also, they very likely wouldnt have to be assigned to a split MS.

yeah, we wouldn't be split from the 3rd closest MS to our house


so we still pay a distance penalty for 7 years - and as far as I am concerned - the one where the kids are driving or potentially in cars with friends concerns me the most. Of course when your option is 1 1/2 hours + on a bus -----

[gatordog]

yeson321 said:

I would welcome a split for May Watts from any middle school assignment if that would mean that we would be able to stay at WVHS and avoid the distance/travel issues to MV.

I think that is possible. We discussed this last Dec.

www.ipsd204.proboards76.com/index.cgi?board=newhighschool&action=display&thread=1196743597&page=1

My opinion is this would make both Hill and 7th MS's split, in addition to Scullen and Still.

I think splitting the majority of MS's has merit. Its something I personally could support. However, my reading of the "minimizing splits" criteria line that SB asked Admin to use, makes wonder if this is direction there recommendation will take.

[corky]

I was not suggesting moving special ed/inclusion kids all over the district. I was suggesting the SD will take into consideration their classroom space needed when deciding on elementary boundaries and working within those parameters.

[refbasics]

archwinsome said:

corky said:

from Arch:
These are very misleading numbers too. Earlier I had pointed out that a whole wing @ Watts is devoted to the Basics programs for non-included, semi included and children who need other supported educational work. With that program there, its 'additional capacity' is really just the 1 empty classroom that gets used throughout the day for intervention work and next year that classroom will be full because the 3rd grade this year is too large and it fill that in when they are in 4th. Toss All Day K into the mix and they are 'full' even though their 'capacity' shows on a piece of paper they have room. They won't
--------------
from arch:

I personally think the idea of shuffling around the children who need the special ed program is probably one of the absolute worst things one can do to them. They are already the ones who can least handle change and even the transportation to/from school. It goes completely against their elevated need for stability, predictability and for most, less sensory overload.

=============

i agree! was this 'Basics' program at Watts before.. or is it bigger now. isn't the new principal of watts the former principal of still MS- and he has a background in special ed?

i thought this was signifying a 'centralization' of location(when we all thought watts was in the center of the District) of non-included special ed programs so kids and parents could, more easily, get to school to meet with the teachers? would this program just be shifted to a less crowded school?

[Arch]

refbasics said:

archwinsome said:

corky said:

from Arch:
These are very misleading numbers too. Earlier I had pointed out that a whole wing @ Watts is devoted to the Basics programs for non-included, semi included and children who need other supported educational work. With that program there, its 'additional capacity' is really just the 1 empty classroom that gets used throughout the day for intervention work and next year that classroom will be full because the 3rd grade this year is too large and it fill that in when they are in 4th. Toss All Day K into the mix and they are 'full' even though their 'capacity' shows on a piece of paper they have room. They won't
--------------
from arch:

I personally think the idea of shuffling around the children who need the special ed program is probably one of the absolute worst things one can do to them. They are already the ones who can least handle change and even the transportation to/from school. It goes completely against their elevated need for stability, predictability and for most, less sensory overload.

=============

i agree! was this 'Basics' program at Watts before.. or is it bigger now. isn't the new principal of watts the former principal of still MS- and he has a background in special ed?

i thought this was signifying a 'centralization' of location(when we all thought watts was in the center of the District) of non-included special ed programs so kids and parents could, more easily, get to school to meet with the teachers? would this program just be shifted to a less crowded school?

We have Hill's former Principal, Mike Raczak, at Watts. The program has been there for a number of years now.

[doctorwho]

refbasics said:

archwinsome said:

corky said:

from Arch:
These are very misleading numbers too. Earlier I had pointed out that a whole wing @ Watts is devoted to the Basics programs for non-included, semi included and children who need other supported educational work. With that program there, its 'additional capacity' is really just the 1 empty classroom that gets used throughout the day for intervention work and next year that classroom will be full because the 3rd grade this year is too large and it fill that in when they are in 4th. Toss All Day K into the mix and they are 'full' even though their 'capacity' shows on a piece of paper they have room. They won't
--------------
from arch:

I personally think the idea of shuffling around the children who need the special ed program is probably one of the absolute worst things one can do to them. They are already the ones who can least handle change and even the transportation to/from school. It goes completely against their elevated need for stability, predictability and for most, less sensory overload.

=============

i agree! was this 'Basics' program at Watts before.. or is it bigger now. isn't the new principal of watts the former principal of still MS- and he has a background in special ed?

i thought this was signifying a 'centralization' of location(when we all thought watts was in the center of the District) of non-included special ed programs so kids and parents could, more easily, get to school to meet with the teachers? would this program just be shifted to a less crowded school?

before the huge seismic event that shifted the school smack dab into the north