Environmental Letter from Shawn Collins

[fence]

I just don't understand why we'd take the risk. Statistics are not certainties - who knows, maybe you were lucky, but that would be a pretty unnerving thought to me.

To say that because a person lives in a risky area was not affected does not mean that the area is not risky. It could just mean that you have not seen visible signs of the effect. You just have no way of knowing if it affected you or your kids, or grandkids. You just don't.

And you're right, like you said, for every expert that says it's safe, someone can say it's not. But because there are questions, do you really expect the entire district to be OK taking that chance?

And why be surprise, upset or intolerant at the people who are concerned?

And just because a few people who are against the site live near powerlines doesn't mean that everyone against the site lives near powerlines.

Anyway, I just don't get why anyone would be excited about this site given what seems to be a totally unnecessary risk. The costs of being wrong are just a little too high. It just seems arrogant to assure people the site is fine when there is not full disclosure of what's even there, and enough evidence to the contrary along with plain site visuals to give people pause for concern....

rural said:

yeson321 said:

I have 0% comfort with the safety of the Eola site and my kids would be slated to attend. MVHS should not be built there.

The ages of younger siblings would put them between the 0-15 range. Risking our families is irresponsible.

Are you planning on camping there? Extended stay perhaps? I believe these reports are in connection to extended periods of time, such as full years of exposure, not a two hour football game.

According to these research reports it's practically a miracle I was able to carry my two children to term. I wonder how I was so lucky?

[rural]

archwinsome said:

rural said:

Are you planning on camping there? Extended stay perhaps? I believe these reports are in connection to extended periods of time, such as full years of exposure, not a two hour football game.

According to these research reports it's practically a miracle I was able to carry my two children to term. I wonder how I was so lucky?

By some miracle, I can take a certain antibiotic that would otherwise kill my wife. How could I be so lucky? This is just a hunch, but I would suspect that not everyone's physiology is exactly the same way. If it is, then we certainly have the wool pulled over our eyes as a society being that some people never have to take any form of medicine, yet others do. Astounding. Some people can even be out when the ragweed is horrible. Are the people who cough, wheeze or die from it faking it?

Or perhaps the arguments about the dangers of EMF are being blown out of proportion. There is always that possibility, also.

[WeBe204]

steckmom said:

Mr. Collins has quite a signature.

What is the point of this letter? I think the SB knows the stance and hasn't Arch already supplied them with this info?

ETA: I guess it gets the info out to the public at large.

I would agree. I believe this note was created to generated media around the agruements. So, far all we have gotten are low brow editorials and ltes not a lot of investigative journalism. (regardless of what the investigation proves or does not prove)

[fence]

Maybe they are. But the moral dillema is, what if they're not? At what level of risk do you have to start considering diminished returns?

rural said:

archwinsome said:

By some miracle, I can take a certain antibiotic that would otherwise kill my wife. How could I be so lucky? This is just a hunch, but I would suspect that not everyone's physiology is exactly the same way. If it is, then we certainly have the wool pulled over our eyes as a society being that some people never have to take any form of medicine, yet others do. Astounding. Some people can even be out when the ragweed is horrible. Are the people who cough, wheeze or die from it faking it?

Or perhaps the arguments about the dangers of EMF are being blown out of proportion. There is always that possibility, also.

[WeBe204]

sushi said:

Ah, but they are the ones concerned about the safety of the site (the ones that initiated the lawsuit idea).

Just catching up. I see I missed the all you can eat sushi buffet that everyone had for lunch Next time may I suggest KiKu.

[Arch]

rural said:

archwinsome said:

By some miracle, I can take a certain antibiotic that would otherwise kill my wife. How could I be so lucky? This is just a hunch, but I would suspect that not everyone's physiology is exactly the same way. If it is, then we certainly have the wool pulled over our eyes as a society being that some people never have to take any form of medicine, yet others do. Astounding. Some people can even be out when the ragweed is horrible. Are the people who cough, wheeze or die from it faking it?

Or perhaps the arguments about the dangers of EMF are being blown out of proportion. There is always that possibility, also.

Again, here is where the district should have err'd on the side of caution and less risk by just ponying up and buying what they said they could afford and spent multiple years to obtain the RIGHT TO PURCHASE, which they were granted.

[WeBe204]

rural said:

As and aside: The Collins letter read: constant exposure during the first 15 years.
How old are you in high school again? I guess it's the first year that's a doosey.

For every report he can come up with that has a negative spin, someone else can do some research and find the opposite.

I believe Mr. Collins also included staff in his note. I am not taking a side on EMF but there are people who stay at the school much longer then 4 years.

I agree with your last comment. Experts can be hired for all sides of this argument. As a resident who is at the beginning of their 204 tenure, this makes me concerned to be honest. (And I am being honest) Anyone who has some mysterious cancer going forward who spent anytime at MVHS will have an open doorway for a lawsuit. Obviously, we live in a litigious society. I am certainly not trying use scare tactics but this is a real concern of mine.

I was actually an IT contractor for Amoco Chemicals when the cancer cluster was discovered. It was not pretty to say the least. It was a huge dark cloud.

[rural]

brad204 said:

rural said:

As and aside: The Collins letter read: constant exposure during the first 15 years.
How old are you in high school again? I guess it's the first year that's a doosey.

For every report he can come up with that has a negative spin, someone else can do some research and find the opposite.

I believe Mr. Collins also included staff in his note. I am not taking a side on EMF but there are people who stay at the school much longer then 4 years.

Unless the staff are planning on standing over the pipelines the entire time they are there, the actual building site is well within the safe limits, according to the maps. Personally, I would be more concerned with the type of computer monitors the school will have, if I were a teacher or staff.

The only thing I would be concerned about are the Phase I and Phase II reports and we still don't have those yet. So, I don't know what to think about them, yet.

[jwh]

rural said:

archwinsome said:

By some miracle, I can take a certain antibiotic that would otherwise kill my wife. How could I be so lucky? This is just a hunch, but I would suspect that not everyone's physiology is exactly the same way. If it is, then we certainly have the wool pulled over our eyes as a society being that some people never have to take any form of medicine, yet others do. Astounding. Some people can even be out when the ragweed is horrible. Are the people who cough, wheeze or die from it faking it?

Or perhaps the arguments about the dangers of EMF are being blown out of proportion. There is always that possibility, also.

Um, big time. Something (EMFs) that have not been a proven risk by scientists worldwide.

Most of the 6 pages is around EMFs. Hill MS has a large power line running through the back yard of the school. Should we revisit if it is a safe site?

[jwh]

brad204 said:

sushi said:

Ah, but they are the ones concerned about the safety of the site (the ones that initiated the lawsuit idea).

Just catching up. I see I missed the all you can eat sushi buffet that everyone had for lunch Next time may I suggest KiKu.

Yah, looks like they are quite full!!

[d204mom]

fence said:

OK, I'll bite. Who here is concerned about the safety of the site lives near power lines.

I'll start. I don't.

sushi said:

Ah, but they are the ones concerned about the safety of the site.

I don't either. I discounted houses within sight of high power lines immediately. Wouldn't even go inside.

I don't allow anything that plugs in to be within 6 feet of my kids' bed. No alarm clocks no electric blankets, etc. That would be long term exposure to sleep next to every night.

[d204mom]

fence said:

I just don't understand why we'd take the risk. Statistics are not certainties - who knows, maybe you were lucky, but that would be a pretty unnerving thought to me.

To say that because a person lives in a risky area was not affected does not mean that the area is not risky. It could just mean that you have not seen visible signs of the effect. You just have no way of knowing if it affected you or your kids, or grandkids. You just don't.

And you're right, like you said, for every expert that says it's safe, someone can say it's not. But because there are questions, do you really expect the entire district to be OK taking that chance?

And why be surprise, upset or intolerant at the people who are concerned?

And just because a few people who are against the site live near powerlines doesn't mean that everyone against the site lives near powerlines.

Anyway, I just don't get why anyone would be excited about this site given what seems to be a totally unnecessary risk. The costs of being wrong are just a little too high. It just seems arrogant to assure people the site is fine when there is not full disclosure of what's even there, and enough evidence to the contrary along with plain site visuals to give people pause for concern....

rural said:

Are you planning on camping there? Extended stay perhaps? I believe these reports are in connection to extended periods of time, such as full years of exposure, not a two hour football game.

According to these research reports it's practically a miracle I was able to carry my two children to term. I wonder how I was so lucky?

That post from brad204 yesterday scared the crap out of me. It sounded to me like the district operates on a "civil case" mentality vs. a "criminal case" mentality - you know - preponderance of the evidence (like if the are 51% sure it's safe they'll go with it) versus beyond a reasonable doubt (it might be unsafe - no one can prove it's safe - so we'll pass in order to be sure we did everything we could to keep the kids safe.).

[d204mom]

jwh said:

Hill MS has a large power line running through the back yard of the school. Should we revisit if it is a safe site?

I'll borrow an Oprah-ism here.

When you know better you do better.

And yes, I would support re-visiting every site in the district to make sure it is safe. Who wouldn't?

Naperville Central has asbestos tiles under the regular tile. So when they discovered that danger they tried to mitigate the risk the best way they know how.

So would I support using asbestos tiles in MV because I know the risk can be mitigated? No way! Who in their right mind would knowingly take that risk on at the get-go?

[fence]

And when they had to mitigate in St. Charles, the entire district was disrupted, with all HS kids moved to different schools all over town, and all hours of the day and evening.

Unfortunately it isn't just the people that want to attend MV at that particular site that need to be satisfied. If it were, no one would be arguing with them.

[doctorwho]

jwh said:

rural said:

Or perhaps the arguments about the dangers of EMF are being blown out of proportion. There is always that possibility, also.

Um, big time. Something (EMFs) that have not been a proven risk by scientists worldwide.

Most of the 6 pages is around EMFs. Hill MS has a large power line running through the back yard of the school. Should we revisit if it is a safe site?

If we had the money and a do over- Yes.

Do you smoke 3 packs of cigarettes a day not you know how harmful it is ? Have a 40 gallon drum of saccharin ? Phen phen in the medicine cabinte - next to the vioxx and celbrex ?


Enitre states have revisited second hand smoke and where it is now not allowed- is that bad too ?


One thing to make a mistake when you have no clue -- entirely something else to ignore risk and boldly push on im my book.