could this type of disaster happen at matea?

[demandingthetruth]

Saw this on abc news last night. Seems like the Matea site has everything needed to duplicate something like this or worse. It was also mentioned that this was a "small" gas line.

abclocal.go.com/wls/storysection=news/local&id=6037305

Fire crews respond CHICAGO -- Fire officials say a freight train carrying coal derailed on Chicago's South Side, starting a fire when an underground gas line broke.
Four cars of the train derailed in the Sunday morning incident.
Chicago Fire Department spokesman Larry Langford says the open rail cars dumped tons coal which ignited. Flames reached 15 feet high before the gas was shut off and fire crews could control the blaze.
Langford says there were no injuries and no evacuations.

(Copyright ©2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[proschool]

I worried about the same thing. Not only are the gas lines at Metea much/much larger. The trains along our train line carry mostly coal and they look to be about a mile long of coal cars. There is a long train near the Metea site on either google maps or msn maps carrying nothing but coal. If a train like this would derail and ignite one of our pipelines (for that matter even a small pipeline) that could create a major catastrophe.

[voiceofreason]

It is not only the risk of fire from the gaslines ...but the chemicals and pollutants that have been dumped since 1970 and that resulting risk .... Join us at VFW 908 Jackson 7p on 3-25

[proschool]

I didn't think it would happen very often but here is anothr incidnt from last year.

Flames, smoke fill air after train jumps tracks
Sandra M. Klepach, Jason Lea and Michael C. Butz
10/11/2007
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Jeff Forman/[e-mail]
A Painesville City firefighter walks away from the fire that erupted when a train derailed Wednesday. Firefighters had to delay fighting the blaze until they knew what was in the burning cars.

A CSX train derailed near the Lubrizol Corp. plant in Painesville shortly after noon Wednesday.
Early reports suggested several cars in the train, which was traveling to New York, ignited when they struck a gas line, but that cannot be confirmed, Painesville Fire Capt. Ken Takacs said.
"They will not be able to determine (a cause for the derailment) until the fire is out and they do a rail examination," Painesville Lt. Denise Mercsak said.
Of the train's 112 cars, 30 railroad cars were blown off the tracks and 13 ignited. They continued to burn because some of the cars were carrying ethanol, Painesville Township Fire Chief Frank Whitakker said.
"Right now, the only thing burning is ethanol," he said.
Flames shot 20 to 30 feet in the air. The fire poured thick, black smoke into the air toward the southeast. Smoke was visible from miles away.
Flames were reported to be visible from a quarter of a mile away.
No one was hurt during the explosion, derailment and ensuing fire, Whitakker said.
Six law enforcement agencies and 24 area fire departments and the local hazardous-materials management team responded to the blaze and ethanol spill, Mercsak said.
Authorities also were spraying water on a train car filled with isobutylene, a highly flammable hydrocarbon, in an attempt to keep it from igniting, Whitakker said.
Authorities are concerned with the contamination of ground water, however, so there are no plans to use water to extinguish the blaze, Mercsak said.
The blaze was to expected burn throughout the night, Mercsak said, but authorities planned a test Wednesday night to see if extinguishing the fire with foam would be a viable option.
If successful, it was believed that more foam would be used today to extinguish the entire blaze, Mercsak said.
CSX told representatives of the office of U.S. Rep. Steven C. LaTourette, R-Bainbridge Township, that there were no toxic inhalant hazards - poisonous gases - on the train. Other cars carried corn and lumber, Mercsak said.
CSX already moved some of the train cars that were not affected by the derailment, Takacs said. When the track is re-opened is contingent upon when the fire is extinguished, he said.
By Wednesday night, all but 32 cars were removed by CSX, Mercsak said.
A source close to the investigation said the train originated in Chicago, and was "re-crewed" in Gary, Ind., at 10 a.m. Wednesday. Its final destination, the source said, was Selkirk, N.Y.
A CSX track welder working in the area at the time witnessed the incident, the source said.
FBI agents were on scene interviewing CSX and Federal Railroad Administration representatives, the source said.
Mercsak confirmed that FBI agents were on scene, but added they weren't able to investigate much because the fire hadn't yet been extinguished.
State and federal Environment Protection Agency representatives were on scene, taking random samplings to make certain the smoke plume was not toxic.
"At this point, the plume is smoke and nothing more," Mercsak said.
Area authorities evacuated a half-mile radius surrounding the derailment and Lubrizol evacuated nonessential employees, Marketing Communications Manager Dianne McDermott said.
A nearby business park also was evacuated, and SWAT team members went business-to-business and door-to-door asking those present to leave. Laketran buses arrived on scene to move people out of the area.
People were evacuated to the Central YMCA in Painesville, the Painesville City Senior Center and the Mentor Senior Center.
"The investigation will continue until (today)," Mercsak said. "No one will be allowed to return until then."
Later Wednesday night, CSX overtook all shelter operations, putting evacuees up in area hotels, said CSX Spokesperson Gary Sease.
Students at Painesville's Lathrop Elementary School were
evacuated to Chestnut Elementary as a precautionary measure, Painesville Schools spokeswoman Chris Hanahan said. Lathrop students will not attend school today.
Lake County Administrator Ken Gauntner said 30 of Lathrop's students would not be able to sleep at home Wednesday night.
Several roads were closed because of the derailment.
As of Wednesday night, the roads that remained closed were state Route 44 between state routes 84 and 2, Jackson Street between Route 44 and Palmer Road, Newell Street and all streets in Heisley Park, Mercsak said.
A portion of Route 2 had been closed Wednesday afternoon, but re-opened about 4:30 p.m.
Railroad tracks near those where the derailment occurred are still operating, and trains are passing by through the smoke and flames, officials said.
A source close to the investigation said Amtrak trains that use the affected railways would be detoured to nearby tracks, and that only minimal delays are expected.
Power was briefly cut to 1,100 customers in Painesville and Concord townships because of the crash, said Mark Durbin, a spokesman for FirstEnergy. Authorities were worried about the fire affecting active power lines, so there was a forced blackout for about nine minutes until concerns were allayed, Durbin said.
The National Transportation Safety Board has sent two investigators from Chicago to determine the cause of the derailment, LaTourette said.
However, they will not be able to do that until the fire is extinguished.
"Then the NTSB will determine if the tracks can open or under what conditions they can re-open," he said.
LaTourette said he did not anticipate the tracks re-opening for at least a couple of days.
The FRA also is sending an investigator to ascertain if the railway was compliant with regulations. The Federal Emergency Management Agency also was on scene, Mercsak said.
CSX regrets the inconvenience the derailment has caused some residents, Sease said.
"We'd like to express our apologies for the disruption of the communities, and we appreciate their patience," he said.
Anyone with questions is asked to call hotlines set up by the emergency operations center, which will be staffed 24 hours a day until the event is over, at [phone] or [phone]. Anyone with questions for CSX's outreach center are asked to call [phone] and follow the prompts.
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[hillmom]

What about the big gas distribution line that is proposed to run along the brach brodie site. This isn't a Kinder Morgan line a new one! Pandoras box is full of surprises - wouldn't this mean that NSFOC shouldn't be suing the district to buy a site that clearly couldn't be safe by their standards - to close to a big natural gas line!

[proschool]

hillmom said:

What about the big gas distribution line that is proposed to run along the brach brodie site. This isn't a Kinder Morgan line a new one! Pandoras box is full of surprises - wouldn't this mean that NSFOC shouldn't be suing the district to buy a site that clearly couldn't be safe by their standards - to close to a big natural gas line!

First I heard of it. Guess the two keywords are "a","proposed" and "along" which is different than "three","existing" and "through."

I don't see where they could place a large gas line since the land around BB is already in private hands. Also a gas line along BB could not be severed by a train derailment since there are no train tracks near BB.

If they do build a school at BB I will fight against any proposal to run a large gas line along side it especially after what I have learned lately.

[momof156graders]

hillmom said:

What about the big gas distribution line that is proposed to run along the brach brodie site. This isn't a Kinder Morgan line a new one! Pandoras box is full of surprises - wouldn't this mean that NSFOC shouldn't be suing the district to buy a site that clearly couldn't be safe by their standards - to close to a big natural gas line!

What proposed gas line at the BB site?

[Arch]

hillmom said:

What about the big gas distribution line that is proposed to run along the brach brodie site. This isn't a Kinder Morgan line a new one! Pandoras box is full of surprises - wouldn't this mean that NSFOC shouldn't be suing the district to buy a site that clearly couldn't be safe by their standards - to close to a big natural gas line!

With a school on BB it would be harder for them to get the rights to put it through.

Let's be honest though:

1 new one versus 6 old ones (some as old as nearly 40 years).

Which would you like? the 1 new or the 6 old?


Take your time and do your homework on that one and let us know which YOU think is SAFER. And no, it's not a trick question.

[MustangSix]

Hillmom,

Interesting - and point well taken - there are these gas lines and EMFS (per earlier emails) and such EVERYWHERE! The fact of the matter is , I believe, car accidents kill more students per year -so we would be better off home schooling and not transporting them at all!

You have done a nice job showing us how we take common things that exist in our lives and 'catastrophize' them when it suits us?

I'll think twice ... Thanks!

[doctorwho]

mustangsix said:

Hillmom,

Interesting - and point well taken - there are these gas lines and EMFS (per earlier emails) and such EVERYWHERE! The fact of the matter is , I believe, car accidents kill more students per year -so we would be better off home schooling and not transporting them at all!

You have done a nice job showing us how we take common things that exist in our lives and 'catastrophize' them when it suits us?

I'll think twice ... Thanks!

Gee - funny the speaker from ENVIRON hasd the exact same reply about traffic accidents being more dangerous -- however he didn't like the response that this site increase bus miles by 13% per year ( so more time in traffic)- and for some areas has tripled that time - --while we now have 9 ES's crossing RR tracks when 5A had 4.


At least the 'lines' are coordinating the message

I think you just added traffic danger to the dangers on the site - Good job - thanks for bringing that up.

[Arch]

mustangsix said:

Hillmom,

Interesting - and point well taken - there are these gas lines and EMFS (per earlier emails) and such EVERYWHERE! The fact of the matter is , I believe, car accidents kill more students per year -so we would be better off home schooling and not transporting them at all!

You have done a nice job showing us how we take common things that exist in our lives and 'catastrophize' them when it suits us?

I'll think twice ... Thanks!

Answer the question: Which is safer, 1 new line or 6 old ones?

[proschool]

I don't even believe this about the gas line. Are they going to run it under the mall and White Eagle.


Somebody please show me where you can place a 36 inch gasline under BB.

[magneto]

archwinsome said:

mustangsix said:

Hillmom,

Interesting - and point well taken - there are these gas lines and EMFS (per earlier emails) and such EVERYWHERE! The fact of the matter is , I believe, car accidents kill more students per year -so we would be better off home schooling and not transporting them at all!

You have done a nice job showing us how we take common things that exist in our lives and 'catastrophize' them when it suits us?

I'll think twice ... Thanks!

Answer the question: Which is safer, 1 new line or 6 old ones?

Sometimes the older stuff is better built.
Either one is fine by me.

[Arch]

magneto said:

archwinsome said:

Answer the question: Which is safer, 1 new line or 6 old ones?

Sometimes the older stuff is better built.
Either one is fine by me.

You honestly believe 6 older pipelines are better built than one newer one?

Let alone, one newer one that has no documentation/source to even say it will exist.

Here's the crude oil one out by the tracks, a little further up the line in MN.

minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/11/28/28explosion/

See how safe those old ones can be? Provide a link to this unsafe non existant new one Hillmom spoke of.

[magneto]

archwinsome said:

magneto said:

Sometimes the older stuff is better built.
Either one is fine by me.

You honestly believe 6 older pipelines are better built than one newer one?

Let alone, one newer one that has no documentation/source to even say it will exist.

Here's the crude oil one out by the tracks, a little further up the line in MN.

minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/11/28/28explosion/

See how safe those old ones can be? Provide a link to this unsafe non existant new one Hillmom spoke of.

You asked-I answered.
Sorry you did not like my answer.