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Post by Arch on May 27, 2008 22:09:42 GMT -6
A better question is: Who at NIU was linked (even via knowing Keven Bacon) to the bond market at the time?
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Post by southsidesignmaker on May 28, 2008 8:03:21 GMT -6
Doctorwho
Should I assume you have a comfort level with the current populations at the high school level. Do you feel the high schools are overcrowded now and if so by how much?
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Post by Arch on May 28, 2008 9:35:02 GMT -6
Doctorwho Should I assume you have a comfort level with the current populations at the high school level. Do you feel the high schools are overcrowded now and if so by how much? Who's on first.. I'm what's on second... Everytime I asked my Junior about crowding at WV, he's giving me this "What in the hell are you talking about?" look. I ask if people eat lunch while sitting in the halls he says Yes; because they want to. Now, back at Hill.. yes there were crowded times especially in the halls while switching classes; elbows, shoulder checks, shoving, etc. |
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Post by doctorwho on May 28, 2008 9:51:06 GMT -6
Doctorwho Should I assume you have a comfort level with the current populations at the high school level. Do you feel the high schools are overcrowded now and if so by how much? Don't assume anything...but I can tell you my daughter graduated from Waubonsie when the attendance was higher than today, and got an excellent education, and funny no one was talking about split shifts and other doomsday scenarios. This was right after NV opened and those next 2 years were very heavy because of the fresh-soph only start of the new school. She played 4 years of a varsity sport ( so much for the no one has a chance with large schools scenario) -- so, there may very well be another 'blip' here. Did you bother to look at the SB's numbers projected out ? I have posted them numerous times - if you think the sheet I have here from PMA Financial Netwrok, Inc 3/4/2008 is bogus, please ask a SB member for a copy- it is public record. Can you tell me that with a projection of 8931 - tops -- and the fact we have a 1000 seat ( 1300 is 85% capacity btw) - and 600 student Frontier Campus - that we need another 3000 seat HS ? I absolutely agree that we need a 7th MS- likely forever going I am still open minded to looking at all options, but I believe if the ref has to go back to vote - someone owes us an indepedent accounting for what exactly our needs are, short term and long term. Do you disagree with this concept - instead just throw $150M at what might be more the issue that ws described in 2001, not 2005. Do you think they are overcorwded by 2500- 3000 ? If so please explain to me how. also what happen when the 1st thru 4th grade numbers you keep quoting in 2008 2210 + 2369 + 2267 + 2332 = 9178 becomes in 2013 2134 + 2143 + 2135 + 2130 = 8542 down almost 650 kids ? These again are the SB's numbers -- |
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Post by Arch on May 28, 2008 10:11:06 GMT -6
Doc,
You make excellent points with factual data.
I think the district is lucky to have this moment to pause and re-go over all of the ASS U M ptions we have made up until this point and re-think things before we waste too much money on a 'solution' to a problem that does not seem to really exist (HS overcrowding needing a 3,000 seat new school).
If the data shows the need is still there, fine. If it doesn't, then it's time to re-get the community involved and come up with a properly fitting solution to the actual problem. I agree with everyone also on the need for another middle school. No question in my mind about it. That is a more inexpensive 'solution' to that problem. The HS problem I think we need to go back over again.
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Post by southsidesignmaker on May 28, 2008 10:25:41 GMT -6
To arch and doctor who,
I can not speak for wvhs only nvhs. And yes I am very uncomfortable as to the present overcrowding (imo). I would like to see frontier campus folded back into the main campuses at each of the 3 high schools. And long term I would like to see the freshman center decommissioned at nvhs. that would leave extra capacity of +/- 1000 at the middle school level . Nice and tidy 10 years out with capacity at 9000=/-. Oh wait a minute maybe a mini boom in real-estate (unlikely but sillier things have happened) we still have capacity at all levels to handle it. Arch I new you would crush me when I used ASSUME.
As for revisiting the third high school issue No Thanks on this end. Way to much time and effort has been taken up to this point with no end in sight .
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Post by Arch on May 28, 2008 10:38:42 GMT -6
To arch and doctor who, I can not speak for wvhs only nvhs. And yes I am very uncomfortable as to the present overcrowding (imo). I would like to see frontier campus folded back into the main campuses at each of the 3 high schools. And long term I would like to see the freshman center decommissioned at nvhs. that would leave extra capacity of +/- 1000 at the middle school level . Nice and tidy 10 years out with capacity at 9000=/-. Oh wait a minute maybe a mini boom in real-estate (unlikely but sillier things have happened) we still have capacity at all levels to handle it. Arch I new you would crush me when I used ASSUME. As for revisiting the third high school issue No Thanks on this end. Way to much time and effort has been taken up to this point with no end in sight . After 10 years, then what? Sell WV or operate 3 HS well below capacity that 2 can comfortable handle? Let's see the cost of that 10 year plan w/ operating costs. If the referendum gets nullified as a result of all of this, we should go back over EVERYTHING so we're not throwing money down a hole or at the wrong solution. |
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Post by d204mom on May 28, 2008 11:57:05 GMT -6
Back when this article was published, it made me go - hmmm. Daeschner doesn't really seemed convinced that we need the school. And now they've ratcheted down the enrollment numbers since November. Also made me say - We need to spend $150 M for sports teams?
Now what? Dist. 204 officials talk about Metea Valley
Daily Herald (Arlington Heights, IL) - November 9, 2007
Author: Melissa Jenco
Q. Enrollment is not growing as quickly as predicted. Is Metea still needed?
Metzger: Indian Prairie is now the third-largest district in the state. The only district larger than us other than Chicago is Elgin. They have six high schools. Rockford, which we just passed, has five or six high schools for fewer kids than we have. We have two high schools.
Daeschner : Right now we've got 8,100 kids for two high schools. We've got one high school operating at 4,100 kids - Neuqua and its Gold campus. That's too many kids. All the data will say an efficient high school should not have more than 1,500. (What difference does that make - that's not a reason to build a $150M 3,000 seat school!)
You're not looking at good situations for kids in sports, extracurriculars, in all that stuff.
We have basically two years that we potentially see some numbers down. That's kindergarten and maybe first grade. The rest are up and down and up and down. Even at a conservative estimate, we're going to have 8,900 to 9,300 kids (in high school by 2019) with the kids we already have here and assuming loss. Compared to what we have now, that's 800 more kids.
Q. Are there any misconceptions you'd like to clear up?
Daeschner : I think this (building Metea) is going to happen. I think this is going to happen with the givens I outlined earlier.
??Now that doesn't sound like any sort of confidence at all!
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Post by d204mom on May 28, 2008 12:00:37 GMT -6
Q. Are you still on target for a 2009 opening?
Metzger: It depends on which site we pick.
Daeschner : That's becoming a stretch. It depends on how soon we can fulfill negotiations. We could make it, but every day we lose a little bit. It takes a minimum of 16 or 17 months to build once you start.
That would put us in late Sept/Oct 2009
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Post by doctorwho on May 28, 2008 12:17:14 GMT -6
To arch and doctor who, I can not speak for wvhs only nvhs. And yes I am very uncomfortable as to the present overcrowding (imo). I would like to see frontier campus folded back into the main campuses at each of the 3 high schools. And long term I would like to see the freshman center decommissioned at nvhs. that would leave extra capacity of +/- 1000 at the middle school level . Nice and tidy 10 years out with capacity at 9000=/-. Oh wait a minute maybe a mini boom in real-estate (unlikely but sillier things have happened) we still have capacity at all levels to handle it. Arch I new you would crush me when I used ASSUME. As for revisiting the third high school issue No Thanks on this end. Way to much time and effort has been taken up to this point with no end in sight . So we don't reinvestigate ebecause we have spent too much time ? You arew much more forgiving with your tax dollars than I am with mine. You are aware also that we had a proposal to add 600-700 more seats @ NV and fix the hallway situation ( they classroom as I understand it is not where the corwding is ) - fo $13M Other than to justify MV -- why would you want to fold back Frontier Campus ? My understanding is the feedback could not be much more positive from that experience ? Same with the freshman centers - most people really like them- and it is a nice transition into HS -- why do you want to decomission them ? Not trying to be a smart alec here, really want to know the reasons because most people @ Waubonsie really not thrilled with losing the separate freshman campus. What will you do with the freshman center @ NV ( formerly Crone ? ) - You would close ti why - seems like a very poor use of resource for a nice building. |
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Post by anteater on May 28, 2008 12:33:44 GMT -6
You are aware also that we had a proposal to add 600-700 more seats @ NV and fix the hallway situation ( they classroom as I understand it is not where the corwding is ) - fo $13M Other than to justify MV -- why would you want to fold back Frontier Campus ? My understanding is the feedback could not be much more positive from that experience ? I'm not sure I understand all the ins and outs, but my daughter had an anatomy class at Frontier this year. While there isn't so much a problem with crowded classrooms, there is a problem with a classroom shortage, particularly in the science area because it often requires specialized classrooms. From all accounts, the Frontier experience has been great for students who take advantage of the college-type schedule and college-credit classes. However, it can be a problem for students who have to take "core" classes at Frontier in the middle of the day, since they simply can't make the trip within the allotted passing periods. Not surprisingly, some teachers are more understanding than others - primarily those who also teach at Frontier. When they opened Frontier, they said that such situations would only occur during the first and last period of the day, but that has not been the case. |
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Post by jftb on May 28, 2008 15:24:06 GMT -6
To arch and doctor who, I can not speak for wvhs only nvhs. And yes I am very uncomfortable as to the present overcrowding (imo). I would like to see frontier campus folded back into the main campuses at each of the 3 high schools. And long term I would like to see the freshman center decommissioned at nvhs. that would leave extra capacity of +/- 1000 at the middle school level . Nice and tidy 10 years out with capacity at 9000=/-. Oh wait a minute maybe a mini boom in real-estate (unlikely but sillier things have happened) we still have capacity at all levels to handle it. Arch I new you would crush me when I used ASSUME. As for revisiting the third high school issue No Thanks on this end. Way to much time and effort has been taken up to this point with no end in sight . One of the great things about 204 is how diligently they keep up with current trends in education. We are constantly on the forefront of all the current pedagogy. One thing we should be most grateful for is our freshman centers. I am very sorry to hear that WV will be losing theirs, though I understand they will keep the concept within the building. Now if we could just get them to fix the grammatical error on the NV Gold sign..... sorry....it really bugs me! |
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Post by southsidesignmaker on May 28, 2008 20:19:07 GMT -6
To DoctorWho,
In my ideal world the three high schools will each have a freshman wing, and a wing that would replicate the positives draw out from the frontier campus. With this becoming a reality for 2 of the high schools (nvhs keeps the separate freshman center building), All students will be able to take advantage of the "college experience without leaving the campus. One concern now is with time spent at frontier some students may feel they are missing out of senior year at their main buildings. Dr. D spoke about the possibility of integrating parts of the high schools to bloc type course work and the advantages of promoting AP type courses for all high school students. If we can finally get the necessary sq. footage this will become a reality.
Closing of the south freshman center is not even an option for many years and maybe decades. But if the south location needed to be closed due to substantial declines in enrollment it would not be the end of the world to sell one of the outlying middle schools and convert the freshman center back to a middle school.
Doctorwho to answer your question regarding how this district spends my tax dollars.
I am no expert in this line of work (argued my tax case with the county assessors office last year and lost), but here goes. I did some research as to tax rates in other fast growing tax districts i.e Oswego and Plainfield. What I noticed was our tax rate is significately less than our neighbors to the south and west. I also noticed that my tax % to district 204 has stayed very stable in the past few years. I was also impressed with the interest for school bonds has been very stable and actually gone down .
When it comes to the need for three high schools I am very comfortable with a constant high school population of around 8900-9500 students. This number in my mind more than justifies the undertaking of our third high school. As for looking at other less expensive options that was an option before the 2nd referendum passed. But who knows what is ahead I would not want to assume too much.
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