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Post by wvhsparent on Sept 16, 2007 21:28:18 GMT -6
Lets post here the Pros and Cons for the AC for ES.
Let's keep the emotions here in check (Myself included), and keep it to reasoned debate.
Convince me and the other skeptics out there...........
I'll start even though I am not sold on it yet.
Pros - More comfort, better learning and equal conditions in all schools.
Cons - Expense in initial retrofittiing and operational costs.
Other less costly options such as later start need to be fully addressed 1st.
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Post by doctorwho on Sept 16, 2007 22:03:11 GMT -6
Lets post here the Pros and Cons for the AC for ES. Let's keep the emotions here in check (Myself included), and keep it to reasoned debate. Convince me and the other skeptics out there........... I'll start even though I am not sold on it yet. Pros - More comfort, better learning and equal conditions in all schools. Cons - Expense in initial retrofittiing and operational costs. Other less costly options such as later start need to be fully addressed 1st. Pro's > better learning and teaching conditions > less lost time for students - and yes teachers attributed to heat related issues > less potential for concern for serious heat related issues > less temperature extremes in the classroom season to season - less chance for things like mold to become an issue ( closing blinds and shutting off dehumifiers increases this significantly > less chance of losing good teachers to other districts where temperature not an issue ( not making a big deal out of this like some may be - but just recognizing it could happen in some cases ) - few of us work in those conditions, if there is an option, why should they ? > much less 'white noise' from A/C than from multiple fans / dehumidifiers benefits hearing impaired a lot, and overall listening should improve. > Gives children a chance to cool down after recess - as opposed to now when their body temp gets no relief > A/C in gyms allows for more fitness - can't push them when temp is 90-100 degrees Con's > retro fitting costs are certainly not cheap > if only A/C is done and no thought process for total air quality - it is certainly an improvement but does not fix all issues |
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Post by harry on Sept 16, 2007 22:07:11 GMT -6
Lets post here the Pros and Cons for the AC for ES. Let's keep the emotions here in check (Myself included), and keep it to reasoned debate. Convince me and the other skeptics out there........... I'll start even though I am not sold on it yet. Pros - More comfort, better learning and equal conditions in all schools. Cons - Expense in initial retrofittiing and operational costs. Other less costly options such as later start need to be fully addressed 1st. Pro's > better learning and teaching conditions > less lost time for students - and yes teachers attributed to heat related issues > less potential for concern for serious heat related issues > less temperature extremes in the classroom season to season - less chance for things like mold to become an issue ( closing blinds and shutting off dehumifiers increases this significantly > less chance of losing good teachers to other districts where temperature not an issue ( not making a big deal out of this like some may be - but just recognizing it could happen in some cases ) - few of us work in those conditions, if there is an option, why should they ? > much less 'white noise' from A/C than from multiple fans / dehumidifiers benefits hearing impaired a lot, and overall listening should improve. > Gives children a chance to cool down after recess - as opposed to now when their body temp gets no relief > A/C in gyms allows for more fitness - can't push them when temp is 90-100 degrees Con's > retro fitting costs are certainly not cheap > if only A/C is done and no thought process for total air quality - it is certainly an improvement but does not fix all issues You missed a big one, Doc If the community rectifies the immune compromised, be prepared for a littany of other 'compromisations' wanting their issues addressed. |
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Post by doctorwho on Sept 16, 2007 22:20:01 GMT -6
Pro's > better learning and teaching conditions > less lost time for students - and yes teachers attributed to heat related issues > less potential for concern for serious heat related issues > less temperature extremes in the classroom season to season - less chance for things like mold to become an issue ( closing blinds and shutting off dehumifiers increases this significantly > less chance of losing good teachers to other districts where temperature not an issue ( not making a big deal out of this like some may be - but just recognizing it could happen in some cases ) - few of us work in those conditions, if there is an option, why should they ? > much less 'white noise' from A/C than from multiple fans / dehumidifiers benefits hearing impaired a lot, and overall listening should improve. > Gives children a chance to cool down after recess - as opposed to now when their body temp gets no relief > A/C in gyms allows for more fitness - can't push them when temp is 90-100 degrees Con's > retro fitting costs are certainly not cheap > if only A/C is done and no thought process for total air quality - it is certainly an improvement but does not fix all issues You missed a big one, Doc If the community rectifies the immune compromised, be prepared for a littany of other 'compromisations' wanting their issues addressed. In my world - each gets looked at and stands on their own merit. the one you are missing is that most parents in the district are fortunate enough not to have the extreme issues some parents have to deal with on a daily basis. I like to think we are big enough to look at the entire picture - from the students viewpoint, from the teachers viewpoint and from an overall quality of education viewpoint. This is not being done for a small group, all students benefit. I cannot control how people parent ( nor did I ever get the memo on what a perfect parent is) - I can have a part in the control of what we provide for the youngest residents in our district. That is how I choose to view it. It's not being done for any special interest group, the 100k or so students over the next 25 years this will improve education facilities for also benefit- as well as a whole generation of teachers. |
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Post by Arch on Sept 16, 2007 22:25:22 GMT -6
Pro: Near consistent learning environment each day at each school. Consistency again, from my perspective includes not just temperature but humidity control and air filtration. Happier employees which result in a better overall mood of everyone there. Uncomfortable places make people cranky. This goes for all: staff and students.
Cons: Cost. Nothing's free and eventually we will need to go back to the existing structures for maintenance, upkeep, etc. I look at this as a a first round of going back and fixing things that are broken (original design).
Let's put the cost into perspective though:
People expect their excess 'stuff' to be stored in climate controlled storage facilities. (Ala UHAUL)
...but we're complaining about doing the same to where our kids are for 50% of the days in a year when the ballpark annual cost addition is about the cost of a month of 'storage' for 'stuff'
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Post by harry on Sept 16, 2007 22:47:29 GMT -6
You missed a big one, Doc If the community rectifies the immune compromised, be prepared for a littany of other 'compromisations' wanting their issues addressed. In my world - each gets looked at and stands on their own merit. the one you are missing is that most parents in the district are fortunate enough not to have the extreme issues some parents have to deal with on a daily basis. I like to think we are big enough to look at the entire picture - from the students viewpoint, from the teachers viewpoint and from an overall quality of education viewpoint. This is not being done for a small group, all students benefit. I cannot control how people parent ( nor did I ever get the memo on what a perfect parent is) - I can have a part in the control of what we provide for the youngest residents in our district. That is how I choose to view it. It's not being done for any special interest group, the 100k or so students over the next 25 years this will improve education facilities for also benefit- as well as a whole generation of teachers. The original issue was with the high degree of temperature in our ES on hot days NOT all of the rest of the indiviual issues. Comfort for ALL needs to be pursued. Starting days needs to be revisited (ie after labor day0 Stopping days need to be revisited (building in 'hot day' cancellation days along w/snow days) Do the parents in the 'richest town in america' have nothing better to do in their lives/?? It gets old................ |
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Post by doctorwho on Sept 16, 2007 22:57:39 GMT -6
In my world - each gets looked at and stands on their own merit. the one you are missing is that most parents in the district are fortunate enough not to have the extreme issues some parents have to deal with on a daily basis. I like to think we are big enough to look at the entire picture - from the students viewpoint, from the teachers viewpoint and from an overall quality of education viewpoint. This is not being done for a small group, all students benefit. I cannot control how people parent ( nor did I ever get the memo on what a perfect parent is) - I can have a part in the control of what we provide for the youngest residents in our district. That is how I choose to view it. It's not being done for any special interest group, the 100k or so students over the next 25 years this will improve education facilities for also benefit- as well as a whole generation of teachers. The original issue was with the high degree of temperature in our ES on hot days NOT all of the rest of the indiviual issues. Comfort for ALL needs to be pursued. Starting days needs to be revisited (ie after labor day0 Stopping days need to be revisited (building in 'hot day' cancellation days along w/snow days) Do the parents in the 'richest town in america' have nothing better to do in their lives/?? It gets old................ Yes it was the original issue, but it seems again 204 can do nothing right in some eyes. The suggestion to look at the entire picture was because it is always cheaper to do something up front than retro fit - case in point the AC issue now. The SD gets blamed for not looking far enough ahead on any of a large number of issues - so this time we are saying, look at the entire picture and factor that into the options. I fail to see the error in that... the best balanced option should be what emerges, no one knows exactly what that will be yet, but why be short sighted on the options ? as far as the last comment, I believe it was 'the richest city on the planet' - and yeah it made me want to gag also. |
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Post by harry on Sept 16, 2007 23:18:58 GMT -6
The original issue was with the high degree of temperature in our ES on hot days NOT all of the rest of the indiviual issues. Comfort for ALL needs to be pursued. Starting days needs to be revisited (ie after labor day0 Stopping days need to be revisited (building in 'hot day' cancellation days along w/snow days) Do the parents in the 'richest town in america' have nothing better to do in their lives/?? It gets old................ Yes it was the original issue, but it seems again 204 can do nothing right in some eyes. The suggestion to look at the entire picture was because it is always cheaper to do something up front than retro fit - case in point the AC issue now. The SD gets blamed for not looking far enough ahead on any of a large number of issues - so this time we are saying, look at the entire picture and factor that into the options. I fail to see the error in that... the best balanced option should be what emerges, no one knows exactly what that will be yet, but why be short sighted on the options ? as far as the last comment, I believe it was 'the richest city on the planet' - and yeah it made me want to gag also. I am pro evolution and change. I do not think that the SB is to blame for not being able to vote in AC when it built all of the ES. They are resonsible for spending tax dollars wisely, and, since this issue has come to the fore, The easiest solution is to immediately put into policy the no school in session over 95 degree days and no school until after labor day Once the SB has gained the tax payors trust on this issue (especially since 100% of the offices are air conditioned, including the Howie Crouse district admin building and principal offices) then and only then should they delve, completely into the AC/air quality of the other ES schools and what it will take to rectify this situation. And for the record, I look up several polls regarding the richest towns, citiies, villages, terraces, etc Napperville wasn't on any of them. |
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Post by Arch on Sept 16, 2007 23:49:46 GMT -6
Harry, looking at the outside temperature is not a solution either. On a 90 degree day the inside temperature can be over 100 in the upper classrooms and in the multi-purpose (aka lunch) room.
I do agree (looking only at the temperature for the moment) that there should be no school when the temperature is too high, but I believe that cut-off comes well before it reaches 95 degrees outside and further, the cut-off should be determined from various inside readings.
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Post by doctorwho on Sept 17, 2007 7:18:01 GMT -6
Yes it was the original issue, but it seems again 204 can do nothing right in some eyes. The suggestion to look at the entire picture was because it is always cheaper to do something up front than retro fit - case in point the AC issue now. The SD gets blamed for not looking far enough ahead on any of a large number of issues - so this time we are saying, look at the entire picture and factor that into the options. I fail to see the error in that... the best balanced option should be what emerges, no one knows exactly what that will be yet, but why be short sighted on the options ? as far as the last comment, I believe it was 'the richest city on the planet' - and yeah it made me want to gag also. I am pro evolution and change. I do not think that the SB is to blame for not being able to vote in AC when it built all of the ES. They are resonsible for spending tax dollars wisely, and, since this issue has come to the fore, The easiest solution is to immediately put into policy the no school in session over 95 degree days and no school until after labor day Once the SB has gained the tax payors trust on this issue (especially since 100% of the offices are air conditioned, including the Howie Crouse district admin building and principal offices) then and only then should they delve, completely into the AC/air quality of the other ES schools and what it will take to rectify this situation. And for the record, I look up several polls regarding the richest towns, citiies, villages, terraces, etc Napperville wasn't on any of them. The spent the tax dollars that were approved - voted on by referendum - they did not go in into Builders Square and choose options during construction. You can continue to blame them for everything from sun spots to global warming - but they can only do what the public allows them to do. You see all the screaming about, "I spend too much already, I am not approving more" - well that is not new - if people would have been willng to spend thje A/C dollars and any otheritems we don't have - we would have them. Then when they do spend - as in NV - they get criticized for overspending - it's a lose - lose as far as the richest cities - I don't know where people get that impression - I would not expect us to be on any list - |
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Post by gatordog on Sept 24, 2007 7:41:10 GMT -6
Something was pointed out to me by a friend in the building trades concern ES building design. I had been critical of the upper floor designs in terms of keeping it hot due to low ceilings and limited, small windows.
He pointed out that the low ceiling and reduced windows (and brick construction) are ideal for safety against tornadoes and high winds. These are certainly important design constraints for our area.
So with this under consideration...I think the ES are well designed and its best that they do NOT have lots of large windows up there. (Even though the occupants have many times thought....gee, cant we open more windows up here!)
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