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Post by Arch on Oct 29, 2008 16:24:41 GMT -6
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Post by researching on Oct 29, 2008 16:40:25 GMT -6
Thanks for posting this Arch! Does this show the enrollment at the Frontier Campus? Am I missing it? |
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Post by doctorwho on Oct 29, 2008 17:38:31 GMT -6
thanks for getting loaded - I just couldn't do a thing with the pdf file |
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Post by casey on Oct 29, 2008 17:53:23 GMT -6
How does one even begin to comment  ? We're spending $150M + for a HS in a terrible location that we DON'T NEED!! I know that the optimal HS is less than 3000 kids but you know what? My kids are doing just fine there now and now is the most crowded it will ever be at the high schools. Look at the enrollment numbers, look at the current economy, look at our declining home values, look at our rising taxes! Ask yourself did we really need this 3rd HS? If that Referendum had been spelled out as to exactly what we were getting - Eola location at $150M+, half of a shell to start, etc.....who in their right mind would have supported such a referendum?! As we all know we were duped and now we're going to be paying for these terrible decisions for A LONG TIME! How does the SB work to rebuild the community's trust? sigh.... |
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Post by doctorwho on Oct 30, 2008 7:11:40 GMT -6
thanks for getting loaded - I just couldn't do a thing with the pdf file Also for those keeping score - here are 6th day Frontier Campus numbers NVHS 357 WVHS 47 |
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Post by rew on Oct 30, 2008 7:16:26 GMT -6
Owen has 83 Kindergartners in 4 sections = 21 kids per class
Clow has 81 Kindergartners in 3 sections = 27 kids per class
McCarty has 110 Kindergartners in 5 sections = 22 kids per class
Springbrook has 107 Kindergartners in 4 sections = 27 kids per class
Wow! What a difference across the district.
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Oct 30, 2008 7:52:36 GMT -6
Rew, you bring up an interesting point. look further at the middle school and high school #'s, especially with the #'s DW has brought to light. There are two schools I look at that will be very busy for years to come. Hint one high school one middle school.
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Post by researching on Oct 30, 2008 9:36:51 GMT -6
thanks for getting loaded - I just couldn't do a thing with the pdf file Also for those keeping score - here are 6th day Frontier Campus numbers NVHS 357 WVHS 47 Okay guys, help me out here. Using these enrollment numbers, and being VERY conservative, I figure that NVHS will have approximately 2840 at the Main (Blue) campus in 2009-2010 and WVHS will have approximately 2986 at the ONLY campus in 2009-2010. (difference of 143 more at WV) How I calculated that is: Using the NVHS Total #'s in 08-09 4677 minus about for the Gold building 4677 - 1000 = 3677 minus about 357 from Frontier 3677 - 357 = 3320 minus about 240 from Class 2012(to WV) 3320 - 240 = 3080 minus about 240 from Class of 2013(to WV) 3080 - 240 = 2840 For a total of about 2840 students in the Blue (Main) building. Using the WVHS Total #'s in 08-09 3853 minus about 47 from Frontier 3853 - 47 = 3806 minus about 650 from Class 2012(to MV) 3806 - 650 = 3156 minus about 650 from Class 2013(to MV) 3156 - 650 = 2506 add 240 from Class 2012 (from NV) 2506 + 240 = 2746 add 240 from Class 2013 (from NV) 2746 + 240 = 2986 For a total of about 2986 students in the ONLY building. On the other hand, using the IPSD's own numbers for 2009-2010 as posted on page two of the document listed below, www.ipsd.org/Uploads/news_20520_1.pdfin 2009-2010 NVHS will have 3950 total students and WVHS will have 3150 total students. So, according to the districts own posted numbers, NV's Blue (Main) building will have about 2593 students and WV's ONLY building will have about 3103 students. (difference of 510 more at WV) I arrived at these figures by subtracting 1000 students from NV's total to account for the Gold (Freshman) Campus and subtracting 357 for the NV students at the Frontier Campus. I subtracted 47 from WV's total to account for the WV students at the Frontier Campus. Using either set of numbers, could someone please help me understand the dire need to move the Class of 2012 out of Neuqua? Do these numbers justify the sacrifice these 240 kids are being forced to make? |
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Oct 30, 2008 10:27:03 GMT -6
Researching, the lease is up on frontier campus in a couple of years. With the numbers you outlined there appears to be a pretty good case to fold these block type classes back to each high school.
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Post by researching on Oct 30, 2008 10:33:44 GMT -6
Researching, the lease is up on frontier campus in a couple of years. With the numbers you outlined there appears to be a pretty good case to fold these block type classes back to each high school. I can see what you are saying SSSM. However, I really hope that our SD renews the lease or relocates this program. As a family feeling the downturn in the economy, we would absolutely be encouraging our child to enroll. The ability to earn college credit at such a discounted rate would be a tremendous help. Losing this opportunity would be a huge loss to IPSD 204. ETA - Why would the SD get rid of a successful program? The enrollment numbers for this program shows that it is successful. With the state of the economy and the high price of college tuition, I would expect the enrollment numbers at the Frontier Campus to hit it's maximum of 550 students very soon. |
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Post by rew on Oct 30, 2008 12:01:42 GMT -6
Sorry to say, Researching, because the district does what's best for itself, (ie save money on a bldng lease so they can spend more for administration) not what is best for students and families.
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Post by researching on Oct 30, 2008 12:40:21 GMT -6
Sorry to say, Researching, because the district does what's best for itself, (ie save money on a bldng lease so they can spend more for administration) not what is best for students and families. I would agree. That is why the next election is so important. 4 seats changes everything. |
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Post by doctorwho on Oct 30, 2008 12:54:19 GMT -6
Sorry to say, Researching, because the district does what's best for itself, (ie save money on a bldng lease so they can spend more for administration) not what is best for students and families. I would agree. That is why the next election is so important. 4 seats changes everything. my guess is some attempt at appeasement will be made to try and minimize the # of areas upset today before the vote is taken. That way maybe the incumbents can still slide back in... like maybe proposing NV class of 2012 stay there - but MW kids for instance don't get that same opporttunity --- or vice versa. Then try to justify that by either - well NV kids are moving to a complete school- or we really NEED the sophs @ MV . Again clinigng to the - it worked at Neuqua before ideal. Well carbon paper and manual typewriters worked before also - sometimes a new idea isn't wrong. However freshman only would not be a new idea- ask those who started Naperville North. Sophs starting at MV are NOT getting the same deal as anyone else- they wait until junior year for varsity sports and a complete facility. Sorry, not equal under ANY definition. |
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Post by moneypit on Oct 30, 2008 13:01:47 GMT -6
Interesting thread started by Gatordog over on the green board.....
Here is a possible compromise with moving sophomores during the 2009-10 school year when MV opens.
Goal: Avoid asking a current HS student to move from an existing HS to another existing HS.
Comment: This was NOT done when NV was opened. Obviously all current HS students who moved as sophomores were moving to a new school. And they were all moving together from the same school (WV), to a new school (NV). I think this promotes good group dynamics and cohesiveness. Therefore, to follow previous district precedent: yes, move sophs to startup the new school. But don’t move a HS student into an existing HS school, there is no precedent for that.
What needs to be done: Keep Class of 2012 who started at NV at NV.
Assume: There is space for them. NV Blue planned to be at 3950 NV tot – 1000 NV Gold = 2950 NV Blue. Call it 2900. If Fry/WE sophs stay, its at 3150. (Lets assume currently there are >3500 at NV Blue today)
Problem at WV, Class Size oscillation: What happens at WV if these 250 students Class of 2012 from NV are not backfilling in to replace all the sophs leaving WV for MV opening? We looked at this before….. the graduating class sizes would be “weird” at WV, oscillating from ~950 for the Class of ’10 and ’11, dipping down to 450-500 for ’12, and then back up to ~700 for ’13 and beyond. I can see this being an administrative/staffing/course scheduling complication. This assumes all MV area sophs move out of WV as planned.
Solution at WV: Keep the (current) Still area sophs slated to move to MV at WV. These are the Owen West and Gombert East students. These are about 90 students. Call it 100. Then the WV Class of ’12 is more like 550-600, more in line with the Class of ’13 and beyond.
Impact at MV?: I think its negligible. Yes, its vital to start up MV with sophs. (that has been discussed) But I think MV would still have enough sophs for “critical mass”. I cannot see the the 100 or less Class of ’12 students who don’t move to MV will prevent that. Instead of 1350 students at MV for 2009-10, MV would have 1250. That seems to me to be a neglibile effect on MV startup. A handful of staff (~4 teachers for 100 kids?) would delay moving from say WV to MV for one year, but i cannot see that as being a big deal at all.
This plan better satisfies the boundary criteria: I think this is an important point. In fact, I think this makes this proposal very viable and justifiable. A key boundary criteria was to minimize splits, especially MS splits. This plan would in effect keep last years Scullen and Still 8th graders from being in a retroactively split MS. Yes, in the future of course Still and Scullen will be the two split MS’s. But this plan would delay that split one year. I argue that delaying the split just this one year is indeed minimizing splits. Thus better satisfying the criteria. One could say there is more fairness to it since its not a split that the students learned about in the last semester of their final year as MS students (Feb 2008). (Note, Granger would still be a retroactively split MS with Steck area at WV. I argue that enrollment balance and geography criteria applies for them).
Furthemore, if minimizing splits is a boundary criteria, this should also apply to splitting a student from their current HS. Sure its only a one time occurance...but it is after all, the "mother of all splits." If enrollment & capacity balance allows it, and it doesnt delay opening of Fischer MS, and it has no detrimental effect on MV startup, I think the boundary criteria says splits--even HS splits---should be avoided.
Rules would be straight forward:
1. New HS boundaries strictly apply for Class of 2013.
2. New HS boundaries for the current Scullen attendance areas do not apply for the Class of 2012. They stay at NV. (maybe this effects some of Crone from Ashwood park? I dont know)
3. New HS boundaries for the current Still attendance areas do not apply for the Class of 2012. They stay at WV.
4. New HS boundaries apply for the rest of the Class of 2012. They pioneer the opening of our new HS!
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Post by doctorwho on Oct 30, 2008 13:10:29 GMT -6
Interesting thread started by Gatordog over on the green board..... Here is a possible compromise with moving sophomores during the 2009-10 school year when MV opens. Goal: Avoid asking a current HS student to move from an existing HS to another existing HS. Comment: This was NOT done when NV was opened. Obviously all current HS students who moved as sophomores were moving to a new school. And they were all moving together from the same school (WV), to a new school (NV). I think this promotes good group dynamics and cohesiveness. Therefore, to follow previous district precedent: yes, move sophs to startup the new school. But don’t move a HS student into an existing HS school, there is no precedent for that. What needs to be done: Keep Class of 2012 who started at NV at NV. Assume: There is space for them. NV Blue planned to be at 3950 NV tot – 1000 NV Gold = 2950 NV Blue. Call it 2900. If Fry/WE sophs stay, its at 3150. (Lets assume currently there are >3500 at NV Blue today) Problem at WV, Class Size oscillation: What happens at WV if these 250 students Class of 2012 from NV are not backfilling in to replace all the sophs leaving WV for MV opening? We looked at this before….. the graduating class sizes would be “weird” at WV, oscillating from ~950 for the Class of ’10 and ’11, dipping down to 450-500 for ’12, and then back up to ~700 for ’13 and beyond. I can see this being an administrative/staffing/course scheduling complication. This assumes all MV area sophs move out of WV as planned. Solution at WV: Keep the (current) Still area sophs slated to move to MV at WV. These are the Owen West and Gombert East students. These are about 90 students. Call it 100. Then the WV Class of ’12 is more like 550-600, more in line with the Class of ’13 and beyond. Impact at MV?: I think its negligible. Yes, its vital to start up MV with sophs. (that has been discussed) But I think MV would still have enough sophs for “critical mass”. I cannot see the the 100 or less Class of ’12 students who don’t move to MV will prevent that. Instead of 1350 students at MV for 2009-10, MV would have 1250. That seems to me to be a neglibile effect on MV startup. A handful of staff (~4 teachers for 100 kids?) would delay moving from say WV to MV for one year, but i cannot see that as being a big deal at all. This plan better satisfies the boundary criteria: I think this is an important point. In fact, I think this makes this proposal very viable and justifiable. A key boundary criteria was to minimize splits, especially MS splits. This plan would in effect keep last years Scullen and Still 8th graders from being in a retroactively split MS. Yes, in the future of course Still and Scullen will be the two split MS’s. But this plan would delay that split one year. I argue that delaying the split just this one year is indeed minimizing splits. Thus better satisfying the criteria. One could say there is more fairness to it since its not a split that the students learned about in the last semester of their final year as MS students (Feb 2008). (Note, Granger would still be a retroactively split MS with Steck area at WV. I argue that enrollment balance and geography criteria applies for them). Furthemore, if minimizing splits is a boundary criteria, this should also apply to splitting a student from their current HS. Sure its only a one time occurance...but it is after all, the "mother of all splits." If enrollment & capacity balance allows it, and it doesnt delay opening of Fischer MS, and it has no detrimental effect on MV startup, I think the boundary criteria says splits--even HS splits---should be avoided. Rules would be straight forward: 1. New HS boundaries strictly apply for Class of 2013. 2. New HS boundaries for the current Scullen attendance areas do not apply for the Class of 2012. They stay at NV. (maybe this effects some of Crone from Ashwood park? I dont know) 3. New HS boundaries for the current Still attendance areas do not apply for the Class of 2012. They stay at WV. 4. New HS boundaries apply for the rest of the Class of 2012. They pioneer the opening of our new HS! And this provides 'equitable' opportunities for ALL 204 class of 2012 how ? I see Gombert East and Owen West and NV students-- ( which I whole heartedly agree with all should be allowed to stay) - but the argument that Watts and Cowlishaw kids MUST attend MV for it to be successful hold no water. Longest commutes/ incomplete school and NOT the same opportunities across the board. Where is their 'equal opportunity' . Varsity sports - among other things- delayed until the class of 2012's Junior Year ? I'm not seeing that as equal. Now since I have my concerns over what the reason for this would be- let me be clear. I would support any movement to help any of the class of 2012, and I would rather see some not screwed over then none to catch a break. I would be very happy for those kids and parents.... however wonder why things here these days seem driven to select groups instead of district wide ? The division continues... and people still ask when will the district heal -  Also do we not remember that Naperville North opened with freshman only - how did that school turn out ? |
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? We're spending $150M + for a HS in a terrible location that we DON'T NEED!! I know that the optimal HS is less than 3000 kids but you know what? My kids are doing just fine there now and now is the most crowded it will ever be at the high schools. Look at the enrollment numbers, look at the current economy, look at our declining home values, look at our rising taxes! Ask yourself did we really need this 3rd HS?