All Day Kindergarten

[bob]

archwinsome said:

So, in a state where other districts need the money far more than we do, we pull up to the trough to get even more money from the state which makes it unavailable for other districts that don't even have the basics covered.

It's not that we can't afford it here, it's that we can make the rest of the state pay for it too.

From simply an ethics point of view, I have a HUGE problem with that.

I have no problem with that because as a SD, we send a heck of alot more money to the state then we get back.

[momof3]

scarbroughknight said:

I find it distrubing that on an important topic as this three members of the board chose not to attend. It only cements my opinion of the ineptness of the current board. The people of #204 deserve better.

Funny that all members of the board most recently elected were in attendance - MM / CB / AT.

[Arch]

My wife had an interesting take on this:

Are they going to start segregating the kids who 'pull the standardized test scores down' off to 'extra intervention' programs at specific school(s) rather than leaving them included in the smaller class sizes that exist today (compared to the larger ones that will exist after this is implemented) ?? Take a kid who is struggling and put them in a larger class... they'll struggle more. Even that's been fluffed off with "Oh, well they'll just try harder to keep up with their peers". Again, another statement made with no facts to back it up on this sales job.

[Arch]

bob said:

archwinsome said:

So, in a state where other districts need the money far more than we do, we pull up to the trough to get even more money from the state which makes it unavailable for other districts that don't even have the basics covered.

It's not that we can't afford it here, it's that we can make the rest of the state pay for it too.

From simply an ethics point of view, I have a HUGE problem with that.

I have no problem with that because as a SD, we send a heck of alot more money to the state then we get back.

From the Kingdom point of view, I can see it that way too, but when you step back and look at the state as an entire system... My POV changes beyond just our boundaries.

[doctorwho]

momof3 said:

bob said:

From the articles , it looks like the costs of all day K will be covered by the state.

I buy that but I do not buy that a thorough analysis has been done on the tradeoffs they are asking for. It's not all upside and I don't want the downsides glossed over. I would rather have my kids have a great 1st - 5th experience than a great K experience followed by an overcrowded 1st - 5th.

I just keep going back to the numbers used to determine the boundaries for the new HS - after build out.
Did Dr. D ask the principals to use those numbers to determine where the kids are gonna fit or did he ask them to use TODAY's numbers?

eta - I keep trying to understand the urgency on this issue. Does the district need a "win" to distract folks from the MVHS train wreck? Did they think this would be an easy win and D204 residents would be dancing in the streets?

eta2 - With the trust level I have of the administration, I absolutely will not believe any "promises" made regarding class size. I know my kids will have larger class sizes if this is railroaded through. Really, nothing they could say would convince me otherwise.

trust me - the principals were 100% for this yesterday - and they had been asked and they said it would fit. Now I have to admit it seems it was rushed some - and in some schools there likely is room and this is a slam dunk. The Longwood principal however - when she spoke, I think hit the areas you are concerned about -- they have art - music and computers on a cart - and with this program that becomes permanent. It might still be the right thing to do even there based on a balance of pro's and con's - but the con's were downplayed as non existent yesterday. It just seemed that the principals didn't anticpate anyone questioning the downsides and how to address them For schools that are already overcrowded today, there needs to be a communication that goes to the parents to explain how the 'ala carte series ' will be addressed. I think there needs to be a little out of the box thnking to get that done - as physically the rooms are not there in some schools.

I would say don't stop moving ahead with the program plan - but be prepared with solutions in those schools were parents are going to have a concern over space.

[bob]

Let's say that classroom ratios don't change due to art in a cart or no music room? Does that change any minds?

Personally, I think art/music in a cart stinks.

[Arch]

doctorwho said:

I would say don't stop moving ahead with the program plan - but be prepared with solutions in those schools were parents are going to have a concern over space.

That's the net of it.. have the homework done on the rest of it first so larger problems are not created (or are at least identified and minimized [not simply brushed aside as a non-issue without exploring them ] ) as a result.

[momof3]

bob said:

Let's say that classroom ratios don't change due to art in a cart or no music room? Does that change any minds?

Personally, I think art/music in a cart stinks.

I would rather have art/music on a cart than bigger classrooms. Research has shown that K-3 is the most critical time for smaller classrooms. As the kids get bigger they can handle bigger classrooms.

That being said, I think art/music on a cart stinks too. If that is the PERMANENT solution, it stinks even more.

[bob]

I have e-mailed my concerns.

[momof3]

I am prepared to accept the fact that I may be in the minority on this issue and my neighbors are probably thrilled with the idea.

My kids were not ready for all day K. Heck, my kids were barely ready for all day 1st! It was a tough adjustment.

[Arch]

momof3 said:

I am prepared to accept the fact that I may be in the minority on this issue and my neighbors are probably thrilled with the idea.

My kids were not ready for all day K. Heck, my kids were barely ready for all day 1st! It was a tough adjustment.

Never fear. There's a solution for that too. If you feel that way under this program you can always send your K kid on a bus or drive them yourself to 1/2 day kindergarten elsewhere in the district. Don't laugh, that is what was said last night on how they will survey parents...

See how easy it is to support full day?

[momto4]

Video of last night's board meeting is at mms://media.ipsd.org/ipsd_ondemand/ipsd_live/archive_20071112.asf

Kindergarten discussion began about an hour into the meeting from what I remember, I haven't watched the video.

[momin204]

I want to see the plan, at least for my school, as to how/where they will make room for this program. I would assume that since the principles said they could make it work that it would be documented.

[momto4]

momin204 said:

I want to see the plan, at least for my school, as to how/where they will make room for this program. I would assume that since the principles said they could make it work that it would be documented.

It wasn't documented to Jeannette's satisfaction and everyone else there seemed to be ganging up on her for wanting to know this per building. They said if the principals say there's space, then what's the problem? JC asked for info by building as to how they are currently using their space and where they would find space for this.

I agree that we should not be putting art and music on a cart permanently in many of our buildings. It has not worked well, IMO, when done on a temporary basis while waiting to relieve overcrowding. I don't see how we can have what we have now and add 61 classrooms of kindergarten, without building at least one new ES. I can only imagine how the voters would react to that request!!

[Arch]

Since someone pushing the allday K said that it's proven to be better to have the instructors come to the students than it is for the students to go to the instructors, it must be true.

Wow, do we certainly have it wrong in the middle and high schools by having students change rooms every 39/50 minutes. No wonder they are ranking so so low in the nation.