All Day Kindergarten

[we4]

archwinsome said:

Since someone pushing the allday K said that it's proven to be better to have the instructors come to the students than it is for the students to go to the instructors, it must be true.

Wow, do we certainly have it wrong in the middle and high schools by having students change rooms every 39/50 minutes. No wonder they are ranking so so low in the nation.

I think you just figured out the hs crowding problem. Have the teachers switch classes instead of the students. The hallways will look and feel much better with a few hundred () teachers in the hallways instead of a few thousand students. No new hs needed. AND, with that extra 25 acres of BB land we now longer need build another elementary school. No problem with space for the all day K's. ;D

Ok, now that I have had my fun, I must break up a fight between my K and 3 yr old son. If she was in all day K, there would be no day time fights.

[EagleDad]

doctorwho said:

bob said:

From the articles , it looks like the costs of all day K will be covered by the state.

Although it was hard to grasp all with out the handout - the pitch yesterday basically said this will be a program that runs in the black with regards to the bottom line for the district - when all is done and said.

If true to wonder wonder if either a state law changed, making this a possibility, or somone dropped the ball big-time in not pursuing this previously. It was even rasied in last year's school board elections (I remember Leanne Lyons saying it would be a priority for her to implement all-day-K if there were funding available)

In short, why wasn't this done last year, or the year before? If nothing has changed at the state level, I want the answer for this.

[EagleDad]

It looks like the state aid that Dave Helm quotes (the extra 5 Million dollars) has been in place since '98-'99:

www.isbe.state.il.us/efab/html/18805.htm

So why not sooner? How many of you have kids under 13 years old that could have had this "free all-day-k"?

We've been leaving state money on the board for the last 8 years?!?

[Arch]

All my kids (the 3 that went to K here) 'could have', but I am glad they did not. They needed home time.

[momto4]

eagledad said:

It looks like the state aid that Dave Helm quotes (the extra 5 Million dollars) has been in place since '98-'99:

www.isbe.state.il.us/efab/html/18805.htm

So why not sooner? How many of you have kids under 13 years old that could have had this "free all-day-k"?

We've been leaving state money on the board for the last 8 years?!?

I'm guessing it wasn't sooner because the push for this may have come from our new superintendent.

I am glad that none of my kids had all day K.

How many years have we had 61 extra classrooms in our elementary schools to implement this? I'm shocked to find out that the principals have agreed that we do now.

[gatordog]

title1parent said:

.....

Superintendent Stephen Daeschner said he already has seen full-day kindergarten work in his previous districts.

"It's the best thing since sliced bread," Daeschner said. "It's the most powerful educational innovation to advance kids' education other than preschool. There isn't anything that will have a greater effect on kids. It's all about the front end."

......

When the big boss is coming in making the "sliced bread" greatness comparision... I wonder how much skepticism or cost-considerations are going to come up from the staff?

Well if the staff wont do it...people here will do some homework. Great job with all the brainpower here to bang ideas out in <24 hrs.

Is it REALLY all about the "front end"? So costs towards the "back end", portable specials, larger classes, are clearly worth paying? I am not saying Dr D is wrong, just expressing skepticism like many of you. Clearly I can see this for the high-needs cases coming into the school system. I am not sure if its what more mainstream kids needs. More to be learned on this topic, especially for parents such as myself with a future kindegartern, the year after next.

[momto4]

archwinsome said:

All my kids (the 3 that went to K here) 'could have', but I am glad they did not. They needed home time.

My kids enjoyed having the additional year to sleep late (my one afternoon kindergartener) or to hang out in the afternoons with their friends or just quietly at home, or with grandparents or scouts or whatever. I would not trade away the year of half days.

For what it's worth, my kids thought kindergarten was a waste of time academically (i.e. they think could have gone straight to first grade) but they thought it was so much fun they wouldn't have chosen to miss it.

[momof3]

gatordog said:

When the big boss is coming in making the "sliced bread" greatness comparision... I wonder how much skepticism or cost-considerations are going to come up from the staff?

Well if the staff wont do it...people here will do some homework. Great job with all the brainpower here to bang ideas out in <24 hrs.

Is it REALLY all about the "front end"? So costs towards the "back end", portable specials, larger classes, are clearly worth paying? I am not saying Dr D is wrong, just expressing skepticism like many of you. Clearly I can see this for the high-needs cases coming into the school system. I am not sure if its what more mainstream kids needs. More to be learned on this topic, especially for parents such as myself with a future kindegartern, the year after next.

Skepticism is good. Too much turns to cynicism. We are bordering on that due to the MV train wreck. I would have to say at this point the general public does not trust anything the admin or sb come up with. Saying that the principals will "make it work" won't fly. We need to see details for each school to see how our kids are impacted.

On the up side, the public expressed their opinion loud and clear during the "late start" debate and they actually listened.

[momto4]

momof3 said:

gatordog said:

When the big boss is coming in making the "sliced bread" greatness comparision... I wonder how much skepticism or cost-considerations are going to come up from the staff?

Well if the staff wont do it...people here will do some homework. Great job with all the brainpower here to bang ideas out in <24 hrs.

Is it REALLY all about the "front end"? So costs towards the "back end", portable specials, larger classes, are clearly worth paying? I am not saying Dr D is wrong, just expressing skepticism like many of you. Clearly I can see this for the high-needs cases coming into the school system. I am not sure if its what more mainstream kids needs. More to be learned on this topic, especially for parents such as myself with a future kindegartern, the year after next.

Skepticism is good. Too much turns to cynicism. We are bordering on that due to the MV train wreck. I would have to say at this point the general public does not trust anything the admin or sb come up with. Saying that the principals will "make it work" won't fly. We need to see details for each school to see how our kids are impacted.

On the up side, the public expressed their opinion loud and clear during the "late start" debate and they actually listened.

We have just 13 days left to be heard on this one and that includes Thanksgiving. There was no public comment last night. I wonder if there will be on the 26th.

[wvhsparent]

This is should be the to-do list of the SB/Admin

#1 Figure out where you are going to put MVHS.
#2 Figure out new boundaries , starting with ES then MS, then HS. Keeping in mind the desire to implement all-day K.

Then report back to the masses your findings.

[momto4]

wvhsparent said:

This is should be the to-do list of the SB/Admin

#1 Figure out where you are going to put MVHS.
#2 Figure out new boundaries , starting with ES then MS, then HS. Keeping in mind the desire to implement all-day K.

Then report back to the masses your findings.

Sounds good to me. I wonder why there was such a huge push to put this through last night without any chance for the public to be informed or give feedback. Since when it is an emergency to decide mid-November this year that we will have all day K for all in 2008? Definitely best to deal with MVHS first and take the time later to figure out the details of boundaries and classroom space for such a big new program.

[gatordog]

What is space impact at ES's? With NO extra K enrollment its a +8% effect on space needs. Assume its about +10% space pact.


Now comparing Current ES enrollment to Projected Maximum enrollment. I cant say project maximum is "capacity" but it was what the SD is planning for at build-out. Its fair to call it a "capacity" I think.

ES BD BR BUIL CLOW COWL FRY GEOT GOM GRAH KEND LONG MCC OWEN PATT SPBR STEC WATT WEL WE YOU PET&WH

% of proj max 91.6 94.6 65.6 93.5 91.5 96.8 94.6 105.6 91.9 78.9 100.4 99.7 97.6 90.3 88.9 88.4 79.7 87.7 89.1 98.8 46.7

Other than the "high future growth areas" of BULTA,KEND,PETER, and WATTS (edit: good catch on WATTS Momof3)...
Look how many ES's are already above 90% of planned capacity.

When the principals all say "there is room", what exactly do they mean? How much further can you go over planned capacity?

[Arch]

The principles said they can 'make room'. That is far far different than there 'being room'.

Another comment from the wife when we were talking about this over lunch:

This might drive out all the older (more experienced and higher paid) teachers. Then they can backfill them with newer cheaper ones.

[momof3]

gatordog said:

What is space impact at ES's? With NO extra K enrollment its a +8% effect on space needs. Assume its about +10% space pact.


Now comparing Current ES enrollment to Projected Maximum enrollment. I cant say project maximum is "capacity" but it was what the SD is planning for at build-out. Its fair to call it a "capacity" I think.

ES BD BR BUIL CLOW COWL FRY GEOT GOM GRAH KEND LONG MCC OWEN PATT SPBR STEC WATT WEL WE YOU PET&WH

% of proj max 91.6 94.6 65.6 93.5 91.5 96.8 94.6 105.6 91.9 78.9 100.4 99.7 97.6 90.3 88.9 88.4 79.7 87.7 89.1 98.8 46.7

Other than the "high future growth areas" of BULTA,KEND,PETER...
Look how many ES's are already above 90% of planned capacity.

When the principals all say "there is room", what exactly do they mean? How much further can you go over planned capacity?

Throw MW into the "future growth" areas as they are slated to absorb all of the new construction inbetween the mall and the train station.

eta - I believe DH said we could probably expect 300+ more kindergartners if we offered all day K. So 0% growth should be bumped up as it seems unrealistic.

[momof3]

momto4 said:

Video of last night's board meeting is at mms://media.ipsd.org/ipsd_ondemand/ipsd_live/archive_20071112.asf

Kindergarten discussion began about an hour into the meeting from what I remember, I haven't watched the video.

Thanks for posting MT4. JC starts questioning the glossing-over of space issues at 1:27.