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Post by macrockett on May 4, 2010 15:58:41 GMT -6
I have fought with the SB over the years but have NEVER felt that they have agendas that are not in the kids best interests. Their are always several ways to do a job and if you are not the one doing the job -- make your case and influence as you can and MOVE ON. I will continue to support the schools. The state is playing hardball and what they are putting the schools through boarders on criminal. (I think that in the end they will cut the budgets only a small amount.) Cutting teacher jobs and larger class size is wrong and you will get a decreased student achievement as a result. You're entitled to your opinion gek, maybe you should listen to your own advice as well. As for the State, lets say they cut the budget, as you say, "only a small amount for FY 2011." Then what in 2012? 2013? And so on? |
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Post by gekfromthefarnorth on May 4, 2010 16:17:36 GMT -6
I have NO information that pressure on schools will always be down. Just read the Illinois constitution to get your lead. BUT, If powers be change the formula to in fact give D204 $0, THEN, I will support property TAX increase. I continue to believe that the children of Illinois are an asset and NO sports, NO music, NO etc. is not the direction that I support. Nothing has to happen until the cuts are made permanent.
ARTICLE X
EDUCATION
SECTION 1. GOAL - FREE SCHOOLS
A fundamental goal of the People of the State is the
educational development of all persons to the limits of their
capacities.
The State shall provide for an efficient system of high
quality public educational institutions and services.
Education in public schools through the secondary level shall
be free. There may be such other free education as the
General Assembly provides by law.
The State has the primary responsibility for financing
the system of public education.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)
SECTION 2. STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION - CHIEF STATE EDUCATIONAL
OFFICER
(a) There is created a State Board of Education to be
elected or selected on a regional basis. The number of
members, their qualifications, terms of office and manner of
election or selection shall be provided by law. The Board,
except as limited by law, may establish goals, determine
policies, provide for planning and evaluating education
programs and recommend financing. The Board shall have such
other duties and powers as provided by law.
(b) The State Board of Education shall appoint a chief
state educational officer.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)
SECTION 3. PUBLIC FUNDS FOR SECTARIAN PURPOSES FORBIDDEN
Neither the General Assembly nor any county, city, town,
township, school district, or other public corporation, shall
ever make any appropriation or pay from any public fund
whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian purpose,
or to help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary,
college, university, or other literary or scientific
institution, controlled by any church or sectarian
denomination whatever; nor shall any grant or donation of
land, money, or other personal property ever be made by the
State, or any such public corporation, to any church, or for
any sectarian purpose.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)
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Post by macrockett on May 4, 2010 16:20:24 GMT -6
On the curriculum issue, I did hear back from Alka who said:
"We offer somewhere around 200 different courses in our high schools - amazing breadth. Admin has prioritized the order in which they will review, align, and make uniform the assessments and curriculum for courses at all three high schools. Obviously, core courses come first. Because this work is so important, an assessment coordinator has been hired at each high school. Still, this is a laborious process and will take time to finish.
Rest assured that this important work has been under way since last year or the year before (not sure) and is continuing.
For more specific questions, please write to Mr. Strang, Dept of Instructional Services."
I also heard from Linda Rakestraw, in Admin. We agreed I would call her, but I have had a busy week and haven't had the chance to followup. When I do, I will let you know.
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Post by doctorwho on May 4, 2010 16:26:43 GMT -6
NO kids currently in HS/MS/ES - 2 in college. I have fought with the SB over the years but have NEVER felt that they have agendas that are not in the kids best interests. Their are always several ways to do a job and if you are not the one doing the job -- make your case and influence as you can and MOVE ON. I will continue to support the schools. The state is playing hardball and what they are putting the schools through boarders on criminal. (I think that in the end they will cut the budgets only a small amount.) Cutting teacher jobs and larger class size is wrong and you will get a decreased student achievement as a result. The issue with 'moving on' is some people are screwed over in the process and cotinue to be, forever-- things do not move on for them. We continue to pay taxes for mistakes and it's funny you mention what the state does borders on criminal- so did more than a few things our SB did - just inside the gray line -- at least the state is telling people the money is stopping .. we have yet to explain to the taxpayers of 204 how we spent $150M ( not $124M) on the unneeded HS. Why is there no honesty to explain the $17M in financing, millions is expedite costs and the books are not yet closed since we claimed some things as assets that we can't sell. So bordering on criminal we should know well...but it wasn't - it was all legal, just as the states actions have been. Questionable - you bet. what would the district had done now if they hadn't pissed that money away - or added $3M + a year to operating expenses. It is easy to blame the state 100% because they are an easy target - yes they have mismanaged more than just school funds for Illinois...but we could have been in a different spot in 204 cut wise had we stopped and gone back to the people with some honesty and say 1/ there will not be 10,400 kids in HS in 2008 or ever- in fact a little over 9000 will be the high water mark - as ES has lost 2-3% each year for the last 4 years in attendance 2/ We are not spending $124M as the referendum said - the school in reality is going to cost $150M - and explain why 3/ No the location is not what we sold - it has some issues, not the least of which is location to the population center So taxpayers of 204, do you still want us to proceed ? There's one major reason they didn't - they knew the answer. So when you say they NEVER make any decisions that don't put the kids firt- I place this in front of you. Yes, some kids got a shiny new school in their backyard, and yes for the next few years it will help crowding -- but long term - was what we spent worth that? What are the long term efects financially on the district due to that decision. Were there not better decisions available ? so we are to move on with the same people making future decisions ? sorry, that answer is no. |
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Post by Arch on May 4, 2010 16:41:14 GMT -6
Funny one qoutes the section about FREE schools, yet we all know school is not free. So, why do you think it somehow magically obligates them to pay a certain dollar amount to the districts when it is not even specified... But FREE is... And no one is complaining that school is not FREE - clearly in violation of the State Constitution.
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Post by doctorwho on May 4, 2010 16:44:04 GMT -6
I have NO information that pressure on schools will always be down. Just read the Illinois constitution to get your lead. BUT, If powers be change the formula to in fact give D204 $0, THEN, I will support property TAX increase. I continue to believe that the children of Illinois are an asset and NO sports, NO music, NO etc. is not the direction that I support. Nothing has to happen until the cuts are made permanent. ARTICLE X EDUCATION SECTION 1. GOAL - FREE SCHOOLS A fundamental goal of the People of the State is the educational development of all persons to the limits of their capacities. The State shall provide for an efficient system of high quality public educational institutions and services. Education in public schools through the secondary level shall be free. There may be such other free education as the General Assembly provides by law. The State has the primary responsibility for financing the system of public education. (Source: Illinois Constitution.) SECTION 2. STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION - CHIEF STATE EDUCATIONAL OFFICER (a) There is created a State Board of Education to be elected or selected on a regional basis. The number of members, their qualifications, terms of office and manner of election or selection shall be provided by law. The Board, except as limited by law, may establish goals, determine policies, provide for planning and evaluating education programs and recommend financing. The Board shall have such other duties and powers as provided by law. (b) The State Board of Education shall appoint a chief state educational officer. (Source: Illinois Constitution.) SECTION 3. PUBLIC FUNDS FOR SECTARIAN PURPOSES FORBIDDEN Neither the General Assembly nor any county, city, town, township, school district, or other public corporation, shall ever make any appropriation or pay from any public fund whatever, anything in aid of any church or sectarian purpose, or to help support or sustain any school, academy, seminary, college, university, or other literary or scientific institution, controlled by any church or sectarian denomination whatever; nor shall any grant or donation of land, money, or other personal property ever be made by the State, or any such public corporation, to any church, or for any sectarian purpose. (Source: Illinois Constitution.) as one SB member so quaintly told a few of us - "can't you read the ballot " when it came to moving the school ( little did we know at the time there were other things not quite kosher on facts as well) - -- yes the constitution says the schools have to provide an education. I do not see anywhere where it mentions , music or sports etc. Yes, I think that would suck for the kids I absolutely agree and they deserve better - but people need to be watching where the voucher issue goes in Springfield because that truthfully could be Pandor'a box for all SD's. The structure we have today is unaffordable going forward- any actuary can show you that very clearly and 1% more in income tax is not a long term fix for those issues. Something has to change drastically, or else we'll be right back here is a few more years ..even if everyone supported tax increases ( and good luck with that one today). |
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Post by casey on May 4, 2010 18:40:13 GMT -6
Hey guys,
any chance we can keep this talk to the subject at hand - perceived v. real differences in the high schools. I've been using this thread throughout the year to highlight some of those differences. I'd like it to be a simple read for those who are looking for information. We got a little off topic here. The info being posted is important but not really related to the subject. Thanks.
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Post by macrockett on May 4, 2010 19:17:03 GMT -6
Sorry casey, I had too much kool aid today.  No more posts on structural deficits here, I promise.  |
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Post by lacy on May 4, 2010 19:47:47 GMT -6
On the curriculum issue, I did hear back from Alka who said: "We offer somewhere around 200 different courses in our high schools - amazing breadth. Admin has prioritized the order in which they will review, align, and make uniform the assessments and curriculum for courses at all three high schools. Obviously, core courses come first. Because this work is so important, an assessment coordinator has been hired at each high school. Still, this is a laborious process and will take time to finish.
Rest assured that this important work has been under way since last year or the year before (not sure) and is continuing.
For more specific questions, please write to Mr. Strang, Dept of Instructional Services."
I also heard from Linda Rakestraw, in Admin. We agreed I would call her, but I have had a busy week and haven't had the chance to followup. When I do, I will let you know. I think that amount of classes is part of the problem from a budgetary point of view. In addition, anything beyond the core curriculum (math, science, foreign lang, social studies, English) are not considered by colleges for admission. With all those choices, kids can end up taking classes that aren't "college prep". At a minimum, that needs to be better explained. And I'm sure it costs alot to offer all those choices. Wouldn't it be better to keep the focus on core classes? |
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Post by Arch on May 4, 2010 20:38:15 GMT -6
Welcome to true entitlement...
I want the best for my kid and I want YOU to pay for it.
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Post by doctorwho on May 4, 2010 21:35:19 GMT -6
On the curriculum issue, I did hear back from Alka who said: "We offer somewhere around 200 different courses in our high schools - amazing breadth. Admin has prioritized the order in which they will review, align, and make uniform the assessments and curriculum for courses at all three high schools. Obviously, core courses come first. Because this work is so important, an assessment coordinator has been hired at each high school. Still, this is a laborious process and will take time to finish.
Rest assured that this important work has been under way since last year or the year before (not sure) and is continuing.
For more specific questions, please write to Mr. Strang, Dept of Instructional Services."
I also heard from Linda Rakestraw, in Admin. We agreed I would call her, but I have had a busy week and haven't had the chance to followup. When I do, I will let you know. I think that amount of classes is part of the problem from a budgetary point of view. In addition, anything beyond the core curriculum (math, science, foreign lang, social studies, English) are not considered by colleges for admission. With all those choices, kids can end up taking classes that aren't "college prep". At a minimum, that needs to be better explained. And I'm sure it costs alot to offer all those choices. Wouldn't it be better to keep the focus on core classes? see that's it exactly- the GPA the other things affect are really meaningless - those courses are not used to establish the baseline. |
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Post by rew on May 5, 2010 5:53:00 GMT -6
But i would argue that it does help your student do well in college. I have a freshman in college now and he has been exposed, through electives like accounting, statistics, psychology etc, to college subject matter. Some of his classmates now had only one AP class available in HS, or only had a basic "intro to business" class. My son feels his class choices in HS prepared him well for college.
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Post by lacy on May 5, 2010 6:20:39 GMT -6
But i would argue that it does help your student do well in college. I have a freshman in college now and he has been exposed, through electives like accounting, statistics, psychology etc, to college subject matter. Some of his classmates now had only one AP class available in HS, or only had a basic "intro to business" class. My son feels his class choices in HS prepared him well for college. Stats is an elective math class and psychology is a social studies - that's how colleges will view them. I'm talking about some of the business, art, music etc. classes. And although they can expose kids to really cool things, they aren't considered college prep for admissions purposes. The college application is stronger with more core classes (that includes the elective courses from the core areas like you described above.) Not every student wants to load up on college prep classes. And the vocational courses offer great opportunities too. But I wonder about the cost of so many choices and whether kids understand that they aren't going to be considered for college admission purposes. I don't think that's well explained. |
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Post by doctorwho on May 5, 2010 6:58:55 GMT -6
But i would argue that it does help your student do well in college. I have a freshman in college now and he has been exposed, through electives like accounting, statistics, psychology etc, to college subject matter. Some of his classmates now had only one AP class available in HS, or only had a basic "intro to business" class. My son feels his class choices in HS prepared him well for college. Stats is an elective math class and psychology is a social studies - that's how colleges will view them. I'm talking about some of the business, art, music etc. classes. And although they can expose kids to really cool things, they aren't considered college prep for admissions purposes. The college application is stronger with more core classes (that includes the elective courses from the core areas like you described above.) Not every student wants to load up on college prep classes. And the vocational courses offer great opportunities too. But I wonder about the cost of so many choices and whether kids understand that they aren't going to be considered for college admission purposes. I don't think that's well explained. exactly-- like ceramics I II III - design, art etc.. these are all 'nice to have' but do nothing for college admissions. If they are cut will there be another weepy eyed group whining how it's the only reason they got up in the moring to go to school ? |
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Post by brant on May 5, 2010 7:13:51 GMT -6
Stats is an elective math class and psychology is a social studies - that's how colleges will view them. I'm talking about some of the business, art, music etc. classes. And although they can expose kids to really cool things, they aren't considered college prep for admissions purposes. The college application is stronger with more core classes (that includes the elective courses from the core areas like you described above.) Not every student wants to load up on college prep classes. And the vocational courses offer great opportunities too. But I wonder about the cost of so many choices and whether kids understand that they aren't going to be considered for college admission purposes. I don't think that's well explained. exactly-- like ceramics I II III - design, art etc.. these are all 'nice to have' but do nothing for college admissions. If they are cut will there be another weepy eyed group whining how it's the only reason they got up in the moring to go to school ? Precisely! Our schools are supposed to prepare students for college, work force, etc. The courses you state are more like leisure courses. If the SD is going to make cuts, they should be made in areas that do not affect the core subjects. |
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