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Post by gekfromthefarnorth on May 5, 2010 7:47:14 GMT -6
"exactly-- like ceramics I II III - design, art etc.. these are all 'nice to have' but do nothing for college admissions. If they are cut will there be another weepy eyed group whining how it's the only reason they got up in the morning to go to school ?"
I don't think that this group gets it. Cutting classes like ceramics which are offered during a period of the day does nothing for the bottom line unless your willing to send the kid home. in fact the cost of a ceramics instructor may be less than the cost of a chemistry instructor (that would help the kid get into college if he did well??).
Real savings can be gotten by shrinking hours in the day but then that really affects student achievement. Band (after hours events), clubs, sports, etc save real money as well.
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Post by gekfromthefarnorth on May 5, 2010 7:52:08 GMT -6
Of course what the SD is proposing is to raise class size which also is real savings but again at the expense of student achievement. If you wanted to increase student achievement you may want to shrink class size. BUT, then you need more rooms and teachers.
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Post by lacy on May 5, 2010 8:05:06 GMT -6
"exactly-- like ceramics I II III - design, art etc.. these are all 'nice to have' but do nothing for college admissions. If they are cut will there be another weepy eyed group whining how it's the only reason they got up in the morning to go to school ?" I don't think that this group gets it. Cutting classes like ceramics which are offered during a period of the day does nothing for the bottom line unless your willing to send the kid home. in fact the cost of a ceramics instructor may be less than the cost of a chemistry instructor (that would help the kid get into college if he did well??). Real savings can be gotten by shrinking hours in the day but then that really affects student achievement. Band (after hours events), clubs, sports, etc save real money as well. Do you have any facts about this? Logically speaking I would think the breadth of offerings is costly. |
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Post by doctorwho on May 5, 2010 8:37:28 GMT -6
"exactly-- like ceramics I II III - design, art etc.. these are all 'nice to have' but do nothing for college admissions. If they are cut will there be another weepy eyed group whining how it's the only reason they got up in the morning to go to school ?" I don't think that this group gets it. Cutting classes like ceramics which are offered during a period of the day does nothing for the bottom line unless your willing to send the kid home. in fact the cost of a ceramics instructor may be less than the cost of a chemistry instructor (that would help the kid get into college if he did well??). Real savings can be gotten by shrinking hours in the day but then that really affects student achievement. Band (after hours events), clubs, sports, etc save real money as well. So those classes are free- is that what you're saying ? Not sure who you are referencing in 'this group'- but if it's a general statement about blue- understand people here think independently- not as a group first off. secondly, trust me- posters here are not stupid, we can all add and subtract also- and even read a ballot  But if you're telling me scheduling can't be done to shrink up the day, then maybe it's not us who don't get it. We have PLENTY of rooms in this district - and if you're telling me increasing a class size by 2-3 kids is going to send the attainment scores off the deep end, I don't buy it. When these kids get to college they are going to be in classes much larger than they are today, are they going to fail ? The problem is everyone wants everything, and on someone else's dime...and at a time when the funding is shrinking...again simple math, that answer is no. cutting music techique is REAL savings also- you see how well that went over.. you will get the same issues from sports parents, band parents etc.. and yes they are ALL real savings. No one is arguing what the largest savings are. You are the one who made the comment about GPA- this all started from the fact the college admission GPA is NOT affected by any of these. |
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Post by doctorwho on May 5, 2010 8:48:18 GMT -6
Of course what the SD is proposing is to raise class size which also is real savings but again at the expense of student achievement. If you wanted to increase student achievement you may want to shrink class size. BUT, then you need more rooms and teachers. Oh rooms we have plenty of now-- no shortage there, and many more open rooms coming  Do you have facts that show how say 2- 3 more kids per class is going to spiral the attainment downward ? I also remember the empassioned case and crocodile tears that simply having more kids in a high school period lowers test scores ( courtesy of JC) yet no one has explained that to the kids at New Trier or Stevenson yet ) You better get ready for lower attainment anyway as the 'magnet' PA school being reviewed will remove the top students from the ranks- and again that will lower overall attainment. ( may also have an as of yet uncalculated reduction effect on class size here) - |
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Post by Arch on May 5, 2010 10:21:15 GMT -6
Cutting classes like ceramics does something to the bottom line. You have 1 less employee on payroll, no benefits to pay and no retirement payments to make into the TRS. You also are not buying new materials year to year that are specific to ceramics.
A 5-10% pay cut and making ALL employees pay at least SOME portion of their healthcare benefits also does drastic things to the bottom line; more so than anything else put forth by the Administration... Yet.. they've not floated that one out there... instead they go after the throats of the kids and parents.
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Post by macrockett on May 5, 2010 10:38:51 GMT -6
I have to take the other side of the sentiment on this subject. But I think it has moved a little off topic... ;-). My oldest daughter took ceramics 1-2-3, and graphics design and web development and virtually all of the non core subjects she could get her hands on. She isn't going to a traditional 4 year college. She plans to attend Columbia in the city.
The fastest growing colleges today are those online and those like Devry that go to the core of career requirement.
In my opinion, other than math science and english/writing, you can ditch the other courses or teach them in a much shorter time frame. I can learn what i need to know about History and Social studies in 1 year total though out the 12 years.
If I know what I want to do with my life, I want to concentrate on what is core to a profession. Just my opinion.
One last thing, I think economics and finance should be required courses. If you don't know how to manage money or read a mortgage note , etc., you are in serious trouble in the real world.
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Post by Arch on May 5, 2010 10:41:34 GMT -6
D204 should offer more online courses. The cost to educate the kids who can handle them and be self motivated is far far less.
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Post by macrockett on May 5, 2010 10:45:35 GMT -6
D204 should offer more online courses. The cost to educate the kids who can handle them and be self motivated is far far less. I agree, imo there are many courses that should be taught online or in school with software. I think with math, science, language and some others, there are many kids that could learn on their own, interacting with software. When you run into issues you consult your instructor. |
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Post by doctorwho on May 5, 2010 12:39:23 GMT -6
I have to take the other side of the sentiment on this subject. But I think it has moved a little off topic... ;-). My oldest daughter took ceramics 1-2-3, and graphics design and web development and virtually all of the non core subjects she could get her hands on. She isn't going to a traditional 4 year college. She plans to attend Columbia in the city. The fastest growing colleges today are those online and those like Devry that go to the core of career requirement. In my opinion, other than math science and english/writing, you can ditch the other courses or teach them in a much shorter time frame. I can learn what i need to know about History and Social studies in 1 year total though out the 12 years. If I know what I want to do with my life, I want to concentrate on what is core to a profession. Just my opinion. One last thing, I think economics and finance should be required courses. If you don't know how to manage money or read a mortgage note , etc., you are in serious trouble in the real world. both my kids are very creative and my oldest took 3 ceramics courses also- but I would gladly have paid for them - or had her attend classes at Art Institute etc..-- they do not 'need' to be part of the 'promised' freee education is my point. When there seeminlgy was plenty of money fine- but today - people need to think differently-- I don't think we're going to see the kind of turnaround where anything goes as it once did.. My youngest daughters school does not offer other than college prep ( other than religion) classes and she gets her 'creative' spirit nrutured thru sports and privately offere art classes. Even gym is only every other day ( does not get calc'd into GPA) and junior year - no gym. |
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Post by macrockett on May 5, 2010 15:16:55 GMT -6
If we are deciding core courses, math, english and economics/finance are my core. I don't need science, history, social studies or sports to function in society. We could save quite a bit that way. :-). Probably wouldn't have to worry about uniform curriculum issues either.
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Post by gatordog on May 5, 2010 15:48:47 GMT -6
Scullen is going to WV for fine arts festival this year and with me still having an NV kid...a day that promises to be a nightmare logistically running between the two. But I believe the Scullen admin has said it will alternate back and forth between the two HSs every other year. Oh the joy of being entitled! The FAF at WV and NV are on separate saturdays. There is no school administration imposed logical nightmare here. My read of the FAF schedule says that the have truly figured it out so there wont be conflicts to those families at split MS with HS. Or for feeder ES into split MSs for that matter. Now and into the future. This was discussed on the other board, if interested ip204.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=extracurriculars&action=display&thread=3473 |
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Post by gatordog on May 5, 2010 16:04:53 GMT -6
.....All offerings shoudl be equal between the 3 high schools.....I find it wrong however that the WV orchestra, band, and jazz students do not get the benefit of participating in camp at their own school as do the Neuqua and Metea students. I still feel that is a disadvantage to them. I am not saying that they won't have a successful opportunity. ..... Casey, there is no disadvantage here at all. I must agree with some other posters, the idea of instructors treating any of these kids differently because of their home HS is utterly implausible. I bet the biggest reason to combine camps (2 for 3 HSs) is cost. Which is great, keep the registration fees down as best you can. Also, I wonder if this could be a result of the severe cut backs in music staff? Maybe in future, staffing may be there for 3 band camps? By the way, I like it when students from different schools mix together for special activities. Its something to be encourage, where practical. |
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Post by gatordog on May 5, 2010 16:13:49 GMT -6
........ Actually I am very happy that Casey has taken it on to make the schools more equitable. ...... Those of us who are at WVHS care very much that it offer the same opportunities as do the other two highschools. I also appreciate casey bringing up things to compare and contrast. But I wish the tone of the conversation could be just that....comparing and contrasting. Unfortunately, the tone of the conversation can clearly be far from that. Which turns people off from the message. (so gek's sentiments are very understandable) |
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Post by rew on May 5, 2010 17:41:48 GMT -6
You're right Gatordog I found out NVs is next weekend, two Saturdays instead of one is not ideal, but I'll cope. But I do have a neighbor that hit the jackpot. JR at NV FAF, FR at WV, MSer at Still which is MV FAF. That's alot of gas:)
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