Land Options Open to 204

[lacy]

Just for kicks I was reading an old thread that had a question and answer format from Paul Lehman. Very interesting that the land price for BB came in at what he said 2 local realtors predicted. But the posts on the thread tore him up. Wow.

I'm not buying the "hurry up and build it before construction costs rise" argument. First of all, we don't know for a FACT when we can start on BB versus any other site. There could be no difference at all or it could be negligble. And no one can predict construction costs or the economy or the stock market or anything else. Hurry, Hurry, Hurry shouts slow down to me.

The difference in the land price between what the SB expected to pay for BB and what we will pay is in fact significant. It can't be waived away with a magic wand (or from the magic bond fairy).

I am interested in hearing more about any northern site as well as southern site. With regard to the Macom site, we need fewer acres, and no roadway or stormwater costs are required. These differences are significant in addition to the land cost difference. I have yet to read anything about moving Wolf's Crossing being a huge impediment except from people on this site. Would it take longer than the length of time to build the school to make this change?

And we have yet to get a definitive answer on whether we owe BB's attorney fees if we sell back the land. Did I miss this - or is this still speculation? The attorney's fees we have incurred to date are a sunk cost - hence the word "incurred". I would however, love to know what they are.

And just trying to understand....where did this talk of building a middle school come from? More drama to support BB only? The plan is to roll WVHS's freshman center into the main campus and convert the freshman center back to a middle school. Those pesky 6 day enrollment figures certainly don't support the main campus being unable to handle this.

So I'm calling BS on the latest shoe to drop - we'd have to build a MS if we abandon BB. OMG!!!!! Sorry - that's non-sensical and I'm not buying it.

I think alot of the negativity concerning any other site but BB is sheer speculation.

[Arch]

I think the 'build a MS' was something someone took out of context as a definitive plan and ran with it. Where do you see this 'other shoe' anyways?

[warriorpride]

lacy said:

Just for kicks I was reading an old thread that had a question and answer format from Paul Lehman. Very interesting that the land price for BB came in at what he said 2 local realtors predicted. But the posts on the thread tore him up. Wow.

I'm not buying the "hurry up and build it before construction costs rise" argument. First of all, we don't know for a FACT when we can start on BB versus any other site. There could be no difference at all or it could be negligble. And no one can predict construction costs or the economy or the stock market or anything else. Hurry, Hurry, Hurry shouts slow down to me.

The difference in the land price between what the SB expected to pay for BB and what we will pay is in fact significant. It can't be waived away with a magic wand (or from the magic bond fairy).

I am interested in hearing more about any northern site as well as southern site. With regard to the Macom site, we need fewer acres, and no roadway or stormwater costs are required. These differences are significant in addition to the land cost difference. I have yet to read anything about moving Wolf's Crossing being a huge impediment except from people on this site. Would it take longer than the length of time to build the school to make this change?

And we have yet to get a definitive answer on whether we owe BB's attorney fees if we sell back the land. Did I miss this - or is this still speculation? The attorney's fees we have incurred to date are a sunk cost - hence the word "incurred". I would however, love to know what they are.

And just trying to understand....where did this talk of building a middle school come from? More drama to support BB only? The plan is to roll WVHS's freshman center into the main campus and convert the freshman center back to a middle school. Those pesky 6 day enrollment figures certainly don't support the main campus being unable to handle this.

So I'm calling BS on the latest shoe to drop - we'd have to build a MS if we abandon BB. OMG!!!!! Sorry - that's non-sensical and I'm not buying it.

I think alot of the negativity concerning any other site but BB is sheer speculation.

Please reread - the talk of an MS is the planned conversion of WV Gold in conjuction with opening MV. The only people that have talked about building a new MS are the CFO/CRAFT/CFC/naperville-area-citizens-for-something types that claim the HS overcrowding could be solved by adding onto NV and perhaps putting a few trailors in the back of WV.

Everying about every one of our posts is speculation (including mine & yours), plus emotion, plus preference. The SD has the pleasure of weeding thru all of the feedback that they've gotten, plus gathering the real data, and making a choice that they believe is the best overal decision for the entire district - not just what's good for person X, or school Y, or subdivision Z.

[Arch]

Lacy, to specifically address your question:

" I have yet to read anything about moving Wolf's Crossing being a huge impediment except from people on this site. Would it take longer than the length of time to build the school to make this change? "

I suggest you google and research meeting minutes of the Naperville Transportation Advisory Board regarding Wolf's Crossing Road for the past 5 years.

In short: yes, it can be an impediment, especially when you see some of their recommendations on what to do about the 'thousands of cars a day and hundreds of semis' using it (direct quote from Jan 8th 2005 meeting minutes). At the time they were debating over/underpasses, storm water runoff and drainage easements, overflow easements, needing to run through the property (Macom).

Perhaps this might be why we might have a motivated seller.

Then, add in the safety factor: abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=5512323

Yeah.. much better location that's a "slam-dunk"

[lacy]

warriorpride said:

lacy said:

Just for kicks I was reading an old thread that had a question and answer format from Paul Lehman. Very interesting that the land price for BB came in at what he said 2 local realtors predicted. But the posts on the thread tore him up. Wow.

I'm not buying the "hurry up and build it before construction costs rise" argument. First of all, we don't know for a FACT when we can start on BB versus any other site. There could be no difference at all or it could be negligble. And no one can predict construction costs or the economy or the stock market or anything else. Hurry, Hurry, Hurry shouts slow down to me.

The difference in the land price between what the SB expected to pay for BB and what we will pay is in fact significant. It can't be waived away with a magic wand (or from the magic bond fairy).

I am interested in hearing more about any northern site as well as southern site. With regard to the Macom site, we need fewer acres, and no roadway or stormwater costs are required. These differences are significant in addition to the land cost difference. I have yet to read anything about moving Wolf's Crossing being a huge impediment except from people on this site. Would it take longer than the length of time to build the school to make this change?

And we have yet to get a definitive answer on whether we owe BB's attorney fees if we sell back the land. Did I miss this - or is this still speculation? The attorney's fees we have incurred to date are a sunk cost - hence the word "incurred". I would however, love to know what they are.

And just trying to understand....where did this talk of building a middle school come from? More drama to support BB only? The plan is to roll WVHS's freshman center into the main campus and convert the freshman center back to a middle school. Those pesky 6 day enrollment figures certainly don't support the main campus being unable to handle this.

So I'm calling BS on the latest shoe to drop - we'd have to build a MS if we abandon BB. OMG!!!!! Sorry - that's non-sensical and I'm not buying it.

I think alot of the negativity concerning any other site but BB is sheer speculation.

Please reread - the talk of an MS is the planned conversion of WV Gold in conjuction with opening MV. The only people that have talked about building a new MS are the CFO/CRAFT/CFC/naperville-area-citizens-for-something types that claim the HS overcrowding could be solved by adding onto NV and perhaps putting a few trailors in the back of WV.

Everying about every one of our posts is speculation (including mine & yours), plus emotion, plus preference. The SD has the pleasure of weeding thru all of the feedback that they've gotten, plus gathering the real data, and making a choice that they believe is the best overal decision for the entire district - not just what's good for person X, or school Y, or subdivision Z.

And it would be my hope that they would do this, as $15 + million is alot of money.

[lacy]

archwinsome said:

Lacy, to specifically address your question:

" I have yet to read anything about moving Wolf's Crossing being a huge impediment except from people on this site. Would it take longer than the length of time to build the school to make this change? "

I suggest you google and research meeting minutes of the Naperville Transportation Advisory Board regarding Wolf's Crossing Road for the past 5 years.

In short: yes, it can be an impediment, especially when you see some of their recommendations on what to do about the 'thousands of cars a day and hundreds of semis' using it (direct quote from Jan 8th 2005 meeting minutes). At the time they were debating over/underpasses, storm water runoff and drainage easements, overflow easements, needing to run through the property (Macom).

Perhaps this might be why we might have a motivated seller.

Then, add in the safety factor: abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=5512323

Yeah.. much better location that's a "slam-dunk"

You're suddenly concerned about safety? But you spent the whole day downplaying other safety concerns. I'm sorry, but that doesn't play both ways.

And BTW, I can't recall seeing any semis on Wolfs Crossing and I drive on it 5 days per week. Hundreds? They must be invisible.

I was wondering if anyone has any comment on Casey's post yesterday regarding the interest on the bonds. I would be interested in other's thoughts on this matter.

[movingforward]

lacy said:

archwinsome said:

Lacy, to specifically address your question:

" I have yet to read anything about moving Wolf's Crossing being a huge impediment except from people on this site. Would it take longer than the length of time to build the school to make this change? "

I suggest you google and research meeting minutes of the Naperville Transportation Advisory Board regarding Wolf's Crossing Road for the past 5 years.

In short: yes, it can be an impediment, especially when you see some of their recommendations on what to do about the 'thousands of cars a day and hundreds of semis' using it (direct quote from Jan 8th 2005 meeting minutes). At the time they were debating over/underpasses, storm water runoff and drainage easements, overflow easements, needing to run through the property (Macom).

Perhaps this might be why we might have a motivated seller.

Then, add in the safety factor: abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=5512323

Yeah.. much better location that's a "slam-dunk"

You're suddenly concerned about safety? But you spent the whole day downplaying other safety concerns. I'm sorry, but that doesn't play both ways.

And BTW, I can't recall seeing any semis on Wolfs Crossing and I drive on it 5 days per week. Hundreds? They must be invisible.

I was wondering if anyone has any comment on Casey's post yesterday regarding the interest on the bonds. I would be interested in other's thoughts on this matter.

While I would support a school located at the Macom site if that is what the board decides, there is a huge difference , IMO, between the safety risk of teens driving on Rt. 59 vs. having a high school next to railroad tracks.

If built on Macom, I will be an advocate for a barracade/fence structure to safeguard our kids from getting near the tracks. I can only imagine the number of loitering teenagers that would find hangin' near the tracks a fun thing to do.

[warriorpride]

lacy said:

archwinsome said:

Lacy, to specifically address your question:

" I have yet to read anything about moving Wolf's Crossing being a huge impediment except from people on this site. Would it take longer than the length of time to build the school to make this change? "

I suggest you google and research meeting minutes of the Naperville Transportation Advisory Board regarding Wolf's Crossing Road for the past 5 years.

In short: yes, it can be an impediment, especially when you see some of their recommendations on what to do about the 'thousands of cars a day and hundreds of semis' using it (direct quote from Jan 8th 2005 meeting minutes). At the time they were debating over/underpasses, storm water runoff and drainage easements, overflow easements, needing to run through the property (Macom).

Perhaps this might be why we might have a motivated seller.

Then, add in the safety factor: abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=5512323

Yeah.. much better location that's a "slam-dunk"

You're suddenly concerned about safety? But you spent the whole day downplaying other safety concerns. I'm sorry, but that doesn't play both ways.

And BTW, I can't recall seeing any semis on Wolfs Crossing and I drive on it 5 days per week. Hundreds? They must be invisible.

I was wondering if anyone has any comment on Casey's post yesterday regarding the interest on the bonds. I would be interested in other's thoughts on this matter.

1) How about we call safety factor a wash in BB vs. Macom & move on?

2) Ah, so are you within walking distance of Macom? If so, that might sway your preference for the location of MV.

3) Why are you changing the topic to your agenda & the bonds? I don't have any thoughts on that because I don't have the facts. I'm waiting (somewhat) patiently for the SB to look at the cash they can come up with and the cost-saving opportunities they can find. It's a whole package deal for me - if they can get MV built on BB, then great - I'm not going to analyze every last dollar, just like I wouldn't have if BB was any other price.

[Arch]

Lacy,

If you drive on it 5 times a day, do you hang out there all day to count vehicles or do you merely only get your glimpse of it when you happen to travel on it? If not thousands of cars or hundreds of semis out by Wolf's crossings and Normantown road, then about how many per day would you say there actually are? I'll gladly go with your more accurate number if you provide one.

I wouldn't call the safety thing a wash either because your route 59 'concerns' that you brought up are alleviated with busing or simply choosing a different route to BB that includes nothing more than a single 'crossing' of the street which was already said to be acceptable because it's done today.

[lacy]

warriorpride said:

lacy said:

You're suddenly concerned about safety? But you spent the whole day downplaying other safety concerns. I'm sorry, but that doesn't play both ways.

And BTW, I can't recall seeing any semis on Wolfs Crossing and I drive on it 5 days per week. Hundreds? They must be invisible.

I was wondering if anyone has any comment on Casey's post yesterday regarding the interest on the bonds. I would be interested in other's thoughts on this matter.

1) How about we call safety factor a wash in BB vs. Macom & move on?

2) Ah, so are you within walking distance of Macom? If so, that might sway your preference for the location of MV.

3) Why are you changing the topic to your agenda & the bonds? I don't have any thoughts on that because I don't have the facts. I'm waiting (somewhat) patiently for the SB to look at the cash they can come up with and the cost-saving opportunities they can find. It's a whole package deal for me - if they can get MV built on BB, then great - I'm not going to analyze every last dollar, just like I wouldn't have if BB was any other price.

1. That's fine.

2. I'm not withing walking distance of Macom - and I'm not saying it is my preference. I do believe that $15 or $16 million is alot of money and we need hard facts before we just "get er done". or whatever.

3. I don't have an agenda regarding bonds or anything else -But I am curious as to why the real quetsions and issues tend to not get discussed here. I think the questions raised in Casey's post yesterday are interesting. I am hoping to get some hard answers from the SB as I think we are due them. But I get this feeling we'll get this "don't worry - you're taxes won't go up - and we made a killing on those bonds", blah, blah.

And I do want them analyzing every dollar. All $15+ million of them.

[lacy]

Arch... yawn.... I said 5 times per WEEK. And I've yet to see a semi - I'll report back when I do.

[bob]

lacy said:

Arch... yawn.... I said 5 times per WEEK. And I've yet to see a semi - I'll report back when I do.

Are you talking about 59?

[Arch]

lacy said:

2. I'm not withing walking distance of Macom - and I'm not saying it is my preference. I do believe that $15 or $16 million is alot of money and we need hard facts before we just "get er done". or whatever.

3. I don't have an agenda regarding bonds or anything else -But I am curious as to why the real quetsions and issues tend to not get discussed here. I think the questions raised in Casey's post yesterday are interesting. I am hoping to get some hard answers from the SB as I think we are due them. But I get this feeling we'll get this "don't worry - you're taxes won't go up - and we made a killing on those bonds", blah, blah.

And I do want them analyzing every dollar. All $15+ million of them.

2) Yes, 15-16 million is a lot of money when you see it on a slip of paper. However, I've done enough long term projects to know that what looks good on paper is not always good long term and the 'savings' can turn into liabilities real fast with cost overruns and cascading events that eventually cost you more because of time spent/wasted trying to obtain an impossible goal "getting it all perfect before starting". It never is perfect. It never will be perfect. But time will cost money. I think anyone in any business will agree with that. Look how much more it's costing us now versus if we just passed the referendum back in 2005. I kick myself in the a$$ every time for believing the 'we do not need it' crowd back then and voting 'no' that time around.

3) RE: Bonds. I think the only reason you're not getting any flack back on me regarding this is because I have the exact same concern: SHOW ME THE MONEY. But, you only have to show me the money about the interest if you plan on using it. If a construction firm wants to back off a price to get it done on budget, then I really don't care about the bond interest and whether it really exists or not if it's not being factored into the solution to cover the costs. If it's never an issue, I really don't care if it was there or not because we'll not use it. When the time comes to make use of it, *THEN* it matters to me.

[Arch]

lacy said:

Arch... yawn.... I said 5 times per WEEK. And I've yet to see a semi - I'll report back when I do.

So your travel on it is even less. ok, that's fair.

I have some time this week. I'll probably head down there during school hours w/ a video camera and see how many vehicles there are and what types they are.

I am curious though, how the semi trucks making delivery to the warehouse park to the west actually get there. Do they all have to come in via route 30 to the west, even if they are coming from the east? I could have sworn a friend who used to have a warehouse back on clow creek dr got semi's in from the east (Wolf's crossings). Obviously, I'll have to ask him for a clarification.


What times should we use? Morning school-start time, afternoon school-let out time? Classes in session time?

[justme]

Not advocating a Northern or Southern location (but still against BB), since the redirecting of 95th & Wolf's Crossing the Semi (& construction) traffic has been MAJORLY reduced. I would agree with lacy, I don't remember the last time I saw a semi in this area (though I am sure they have been sometime...overnight perhaps).