Tim West Column in 10/10/07 Sun

[macy]

gatormom said:

No slam macy. While it is creative and thinking outside the box as you say, the district promised Metea Valley, the complete package, without coming back to the voters for more money.

At some point, someone may decide they want the football stadium for MV and somebody will remind the district of that promise. I have heard many times about how Neuqua was over cost when it was built and the district came back for more money later.

The voters have a long memory and I doubt this is a viable option.

Gatormom,

We agree! Progress.

I think that people may be getting creative since there has been talk of altering the size of the school, especially in terms of enrollment. That's "out of the box" as well for me, which is okay... even if I disagree. Voters went to the polls for the 3,000 seats.

I think the shared stadium concept is not viable as well. But, I like the creative thinking. I meant for people to take that from my post.

I've heard the same comments about NVHS being over cost from many residents that lived here when that went down. There are many that worry Metea is heading in that direction as well especially considering the jury verdict. And a HUGE number of people that are of the belief that despite what the district says, they will be hit with a HUGE request for money in 2009. Many, don't follow this as closely as you and I do. More reason for creative thinking in which all opinions (like them or not) are heard. And, even more reason (in my opinion) for the district to hold a public input forum. I think they will regret it later if they don't.

ETA: This is why I wish for there to be a public comment session in which the SB/District could hear the thoughts of residents. I think it would benefit both the district and the residents. I know those I'm talking with, think there is no way (other than email) to provide their thoughts to the board.

[doctorwho]

macy said:

movingforward said:

Casey,

This is how rumors get started; No one said anything about the SB remotely suggesting this. It was most likely an anti SB/3rd high school person writing in to Tim West to cause the community to become skeptical about any action/in-action that could be taken.

Personally, I don't think a shared stadium would 'fly' with voters either. That sort of a situation probably works best in communities without as many students/population as we have here in Indian Prairie SD.

I'm not worried in the least by these comments by 'who knows'. I notice that many of the letters to the editors to the Herald and Sun are by the same individuals over the years. Paul White's name appeared yet again in a Sun letter to the editor last week and I cannot count how many times George Vickers name has appeared too. (these are both CFO folks)

At this point, all bets are on the table as to how the SB is going to deliver Metea Valley with the funds they have in hand. Until the district/SB goes public with their options (which I hope is soon considering the deadline for BB), everything should be worthy of discussion.

I read this article as a someone demonstrating "out of the box" thinking which, in my opinion, is always a good thing, even if I disagree with the proposed concept.

After reading Casey's post, I didn't assume he/she was intending to be a rumor spreader. After all, everything is speculation at this point since we have received virtually no information from the district and SB while they evaluate options. And to add, in my opinion, I wish they'd provide a venue for public comment. This would be a great way to measure support for all of their options in the community.

I'm not in favor of sharing of athletic facilities, but considering we are currently in a crisis due to the land cost coming in at more than double what we'd hoped for, creative "out of the box" thinking should never be discouraged.

At this point in the game, everyone's opinion and creative thinking should not be discouraged. Yes (and in my opinion)- even CFO folks have the right to voice their thoughts. Trust me, I'm not a "card carrying CFO member" and have disagreed with many things they've said in the past. I've been a proponent for the third high school since the first referendum and continue to feel that way today. I would call that: disagreement number one, two and three but... I think it's important for everyone's thoughts and opinions to be heard.

And considering the way things have been on this board lately:

Slam, slam away...

don't see any slamming happening - nothing here to disagree with. However although I encourage thinking out of the box - I take nothing like this article as much of anything as Tim West rarely ventures outside the 203 realm - and even here I am sure he looked far more towards what it means to North and Central than us.

as I still believe this board is very civil the vast majority of the time -- if you want to see how bad it can get - take a look at the 204 blog in the Sun on line... and read some of those comments. I read some today and really had to stop -

[doctorwho]

macy said:

gatormom said:

No slam macy. While it is creative and thinking outside the box as you say, the district promised Metea Valley, the complete package, without coming back to the voters for more money.

At some point, someone may decide they want the football stadium for MV and somebody will remind the district of that promise. I have heard many times about how Neuqua was over cost when it was built and the district came back for more money later.

The voters have a long memory and I doubt this is a viable option.

Gatormom,

We agree! Progress.

I think that people may be getting creative since there has been talk of altering the size of the school, especially in terms of enrollment. That's "out of the box" as well for me, which is okay... even if I disagree. Voters went to the polls for the 3,000 seats.

I think the shared stadium concept is not viable as well. But, I like the creative thinking. I meant for people to take that from my post.

I've heard the same comments about NVHS being over cost from many residents that lived here when that went down. There are many that worry Metea is heading in that direction as well especially considering the jury verdict. And a HUGE number of people that are of the belief that despite what the district says, they will be hit with a HUGE request for money in 2009. Many, don't follow this as closely as you and I do. More reason for creative thinking in which all opinions (like them or not) are heard. And, even more reason (in my opinion) for the district to hold a public input forum. I think they will regret it later if they don't.

ETA: This is why I wish for there to be a public comment session in which the SB/District could hear the thoughts of residents. I think it would benefit both the district and the residents. I know those I'm talking with, think there is no way (other than email) to provide their thoughts to the board.

Agree on both counts - as bad as it might get I think public comment at least allows others to hear the voice of others. We here at least get variety - some do not - only hear one common voice.

I am one of those people here long before NV opened - the one thing I do have to ask though is any overrun on NV -- how did that work out in the long run ? We have people who do not want to leave....some who claim they only bought their house because of the school ( one in the Sun blog today and have heard this in other public commentary. It wasn't the end of the world - in fact the end result turned out pretty darn good. I am not advocating an overrun - we have a $124M referendum, and that's what it should be - but I didn't see cataclysmic events some predict now either.

[macy]

I don't really follow Tim. Don't know, can't comment. I thought it was creative and didn't assume any ulterior motivation. Even if it was, despite anything he's ever written, it was "out of the box" and deserving of a read. Just like CFO stuff, as I said. I might not have agreed with that mentality in the past, but, they are a group that pay attention and should have a voice. Like it or not. That's life to me.

And, thanks for not slamming me... appreciated.

are you talking to the sun's potluck blog? I haven't read it in a few days. It was pretty civil a few days ago, had is turned bloody?

Something we should look out for on this site. In my opinion, this site has so many long time posters that despite what the opinion is, many have spent so much time here worrying about kids. That's all good, in my opinion, regardless of anyone's opinion. Don't you think?

I've been trying to keep that fact in mind lately. Different opinions, mostly the same motivation- sort of? I hope. Not saying the argument shouldn't be brutal, just less personal. I've been trying to emit that from my stuff.

[doctorwho]

macy said:

I don't really follow Tim. Don't know, can't comment. I thought it was creative and didn't assume any ulterior motivation. Even if it was, despite anything he's ever written, it was "out of the box" and deserving of a read. Just like CFO stuff, as I said. I might not have agreed with that mentality in the past, but, they are a group that pay attention and should have a voice. Like it or not. That's life to me.

And, thanks for not slamming me... appreciated.

are you talking to the sun's potluck blog? I haven't read it in a few days. It was pretty civil a few days ago, had is turned bloody?

Something we should look out for on this site. In my opinion, this site has so many long time posters that despite what the opinion is, many have spent so much time here worrying about kids. That's all good, in my opinion, regardless of anyone's opinion. Don't you think?

I've been trying to keep that fact in mind lately. Different opinions, mostly the same motivation- sort of? I hope. Not saying the argument shouldn't be brutal, just less personal. I've been trying to emit that from my stuff.

Yes it has turned very bloody and really very nasty. One poster really off the charts calling people communists - and sprinlkes in other name calling - and trying to represent more than themselves ( I hope) which is always a bad idea. Also very personal it seems - good luck to them as I don't intend to even read it any more ...

While I believe everyone has a voice - sometimes there are those who in my opinion intentionally post misleading statements - printed as facts, not opinions - like the group you mention above, so I have a harder time accepting much of what they say, even though there likely are truths in there as well.

I agree - many here long term, and yes disagreement is fine. Very rarely have I seen it turn personal here ( although cannot say never ) - and compared to a Yahoo financial site I left a long time ago - usually very civil.

I too try and keep the personal stuff out - not 100% successful - but then that leaves room for improvement and I like most are far from perfect.

I would not want to see anyone leave here because of things we can control - to my knowledge very few have ever left, that is positive.

[soon2bwvhs]

I too like the "out of box thinking. As to the "cataclysmic events" due to NVHS over run; I think that fact is responsible for the feelings of some WVHS parents thinking that they some how got the short end of the stick when they supported the referedum to build NV. I hear it all the time, "NV was over buget and could have been built with less expensive materials and not so many bells and whistles"

[momof3]

Now that is a good point to remember - the only people that voted "YES" to support building NV were in the WV attendance area!

[macy]

soon2bwvhs said:

I too like the "out of box thinking. As to the "cataclysmic events" due to NVHS over run; I think that fact is responsible for the feelings of some WVHS parents thinking that they some how got the short end of the stick when they supported the referedum to build NV. I hear it all the time, "NV was over buget and could have been built with less expensive materials and not so many bells and whistles"

I think we are all in the same situation today as when NVHS was built.

With the land coming in so high many are worried the same "over budget" scenario is coming our way. Especially since the SB hasn't had a public comment venue. Big mistake in my opinion.

We all need to get over NVHS being built with the "bells and whistles". It's history and cannot be changed. Done with.. But, we shouldn't let history repeat itself by being over budget and going out for more funds than voters were told for METEA or paying potentially double for land for METEA than was assumed. Not good. As we all know, that over budget anti-NVHS animosity has lasted too long.

For some reason, the $$$$ the SB spent on NVHS has been a major part of this argument. Why? Because it's a great building? Blame someone, not the folks that love the school. please... enough... we may love the school for more than the appearance as many love their school either really old or very new.

Let's all get over it. We should take note of Naperville Central's current pride in their school. I just love that. Honestly, it's so cool to see kids taking pride in their "dump" of a building.

"it's a dump, but it's our dump." Wow, that's phenominal in building school spirit. More power to the person that came up with that.

[proschool]

macy said:

soon2bwvhs said:

I too like the "out of box thinking. As to the "cataclysmic events" due to NVHS over run; I think that fact is responsible for the feelings of some WVHS parents thinking that they some how got the short end of the stick when they supported the referedum to build NV. I hear it all the time, "NV was over buget and could have been built with less expensive materials and not so many bells and whistles"

I think we are all in the same situation today as when NVHS was built.

With the land coming in so high many are worried the same "over budget" scenario is coming our way. Especially since the SB hasn't had a public comment venue. Big mistake in my opinion.

We all need to get over NVHS being built with the "bells and whistles". It's history and cannot be changed. Done with.. But, we shouldn't let history repeat itself by being over budget and going out for more funds than voters were told for METEA or paying potentially double for land for METEA than was assumed. Not good. As we all know, that over budget anti-NVHS animosity has lasted too long.

For some reason, the $$$$ the SB spent on NVHS has been a major part of this argument. Why? Because it's a great building? Blame someone, not the folks that love the school. please... enough... we may love the school for more than the appearance as many love their school either really old or very new.

Let's all get over it. We should take note of Naperville Central's current pride in their school. I just love that. Honestly, it's so cool to see kids taking pride in their "dump" of a building.

"it's a dump, but it's our dump." Wow, that's phenominal in building school spirit. More power to the person that came up with that.

If the voters are paying more for the land than they expected to pay its because they said no to the first referedum. We had a fixed price but we gave it up for what was behind Door#2 and Door #2 was a Zonker. There is no going back to getting the land for what you were hoping for.

I assume that finishing on time requires us to buy the land at BB and finishing the project according to the plan we have. We can't leave the land that the stadium is to sit upon with the BB estate becasue it is land locked.

The land under NVs staduim can be sold for a pretty penny however. Selling NV's stadium to a deveolper will free up enough money to finish MV according to plan without having to go back to the voters for more money.

[doctorwho]

soon2bwvhs said:

I too like the "out of box thinking. As to the "cataclysmic events" due to NVHS over run; I think that fact is responsible for the feelings of some WVHS parents thinking that they some how got the short end of the stick when they supported the referedum to build NV. I hear it all the time, "NV was over buget and could have been built with less expensive materials and not so many bells and whistles"

what's funny is I have been here almost 20 years - and had a student at WVHS when NV was opened - yet never complained, nor did the vast majority of people I know about that. I was glad the overcrowding at WVHS was ending. Do some of those people exist - sure -- but they are no different than the some people saying a lot worse things about anything but NV"-- they are not representative of the body of either group - they are a stereotype --perpetuated by a few loudmouthed people who get all the attention whether it was at SB meetings / informal gathering and whatnot. You said it exactly correct -- lead to SOME WVHS parents ....... the problem is it is sometimes portrayed as all, or a majority and I simply do not believe that to be true.

The cataclysmic things I am referring to are the cry that the district will be broke - is completely mismanaged, the school is bigger than it needs to be etc.-- this is not new stuff.... it's round 2 - 10 years later.

[doctorwho]

macy said:

soon2bwvhs said:

I too like the "out of box thinking. As to the "cataclysmic events" due to NVHS over run; I think that fact is responsible for the feelings of some WVHS parents thinking that they some how got the short end of the stick when they supported the referedum to build NV. I hear it all the time, "NV was over buget and could have been built with less expensive materials and not so many bells and whistles"

I think we are all in the same situation today as when NVHS was built.

With the land coming in so high many are worried the same "over budget" scenario is coming our way. Especially since the SB hasn't had a public comment venue. Big mistake in my opinion.

We all need to get over NVHS being built with the "bells and whistles". It's history and cannot be changed. Done with.. But, we shouldn't let history repeat itself by being over budget and going out for more funds than voters were told for METEA or paying potentially double for land for METEA than was assumed. Not good. As we all know, that over budget anti-NVHS animosity has lasted too long.

For some reason, the $$$$ the SB spent on NVHS has been a major part of this argument. Why? Because it's a great building? Blame someone, not the folks that love the school. please... enough... we may love the school for more than the appearance as many love their school either really old or very new.

Let's all get over it. We should take note of Naperville Central's current pride in their school. I just love that. Honestly, it's so cool to see kids taking pride in their "dump" of a building.

"it's a dump, but it's our dump." Wow, that's phenominal in building school spirit. More power to the person that came up with that.

Again I sincerely believe that most people that had an issue with NV up front ( and again that was far from a majority even day 1 ) - have long since gotten past that. It was built in a time when Naperville built the police station and city hall etc -- all took criticism from some for being over the top -- but again it is the vocal people - regardless of size of that group - getting all the attention.

I never had an issue with WV vs NV - and at the time NV was opening we had already been looking at a house further south ( where the new construction was) - to add a few things we didn't put in this house. My daughter was extremely upset at the thought of leaving WV -- we held off an eventuallly decided not to move at all. We attend Hill MS - the oldest of all the MS in 204 -- yet would not trade it for any other. The building itself has nothing to do with anything.

[macy]

momof3 said:

Now that is a good point to remember - the only people that voted "YES" to support building NV were in the WV attendance area!

And thank goodness they did. Imagine if the hadn't had the insight they did.

However, many of us are new to the district and weren't privy to the argument at the time.

However, that argument is dead. It's fire in the gas at this point.

Although many of us appreciate it, what's the go forward point in bringing that up? Do the NVHS attendees owe something? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't get it. For those of us who didn't live here when NVHS was built, what can we say?

I moved here for 204 schools... period. Let's be proud of all of them and go from there from this point on.

Most growing districts go through this. In fact, many outrageously fast growing districts reboundary time and time again for all levels of school. I think we've been lucky so far in 204 with reboundary fights. I've only experienced one vicious battle in 5 years. My brother, in Virginia, has gone through the same thing for the past 4 years. Three separate elementary schools for his kids in 4 years. The difference is our battle has only been based on the high school and it's been much more viscious than all of the battles he's encountered. Why?

Let's all get over NVHS and be proud of all of our schools. ALL OF US.

It's the history of NVHS that has consumed so much of this Metea argument. Yes... Neuqua is awesome but Waubonsie is too!

Let's all get over it!


I'd send my kids to WVHS in a "new york minute" and be as proud as heck about it! Bring it on... Fabulous school!

[momof3]

macy said:

momof3 said:

Now that is a good point to remember - the only people that voted "YES" to support building NV were in the WV attendance area!

And thank goodness they did. Imagine if the hadn't had the insight they did.

However, many of us are new to the district and weren't privy to the argument at the time.

However, that argument is dead. It's fire in the gas at this point.

Although many of us appreciate it, what's the go forward point in bringing that up? Do the NVHS attendees owe something? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't get it. For those of us who didn't live here when NVHS was built, what can we say?

I moved here for 204 schools... period. Let's be proud of all of them and go from there from this point on.

Most growing districts go through this. In fact, many outrageously fast growing districts reboundary time and time again for all levels of school. I think we've been lucky so far in 204 with reboundary fights. I've only experienced one vicious battle in 5 years. My brother, in Virginia, has gone through the same thing for the past 4 years. Three separate elementary schools for his kids in 4 years. The difference is our battle has only been based on the high school and it's been much more viscious than all of the battles he's encountered. Why?

Let's all get over NVHS and be proud of all of our schools. ALL OF US.

It's the history of NVHS that has consumed so much of this Metea argument. Yes... Neuqua is awesome but Waubonsie is too!

Let's all get over it!

I meant that in a 'can't we just all get along' way. We are all in this together - both high schools are in for it if we don't provide a solution. The voters 10 years ago had the foresight, now it's our turn.

[doctorwho]

macy said:

momof3 said:

Now that is a good point to remember - the only people that voted "YES" to support building NV were in the WV attendance area!

And thank goodness they did. Imagine if the hadn't had the insight they did.

However, many of us are new to the district and weren't privy to the argument at the time.

However, that argument is dead. It's fire in the gas at this point.

Although many of us appreciate it, what's the go forward point in bringing that up? Do the NVHS attendees owe something? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't get it. For those of us who didn't live here when NVHS was built, what can we say?

I moved here for 204 schools... period. Let's be proud of all of them and go from there from this point on.

Most growing districts go through this. In fact, many outrageously fast growing districts reboundary time and time again for all levels of school. I think we've been lucky so far in 204 with reboundary fights. I've only experienced one vicious battle in 5 years. My brother, in Virginia, has gone through the same thing for the past 4 years. Three separate elementary schools for his kids in 4 years. The difference is our battle has only been based on the high school and it's been much more viscious than all of the battles he's encountered. Why?

Let's all get over NVHS and be proud of all of our schools. ALL OF US.

It's the history of NVHS that has consumed so much of this Metea argument. Yes... Neuqua is awesome but Waubonsie is too!

Let's all get over it!

agree completely in getting over it -- whether it's those who for some reason still hold a grudge because they paid for something then felt shortchanged for some reason -- or those who are there now and leaving seems to be the end of the world. Someone had to leave WV also when NV opened, and contrary to popular belief - not everyone went smiling and happy. People complained that there kids were going to get shafted athletically - no varsity ( why that needs to be avoided this time ) - they were going to get all the teachers who were not department heads and have to break in a whole new administration...kids were going to have to leave behind friends.etc. As you say some areas go thru this a lot more than we have had to......

no one wants a medal for voting yes then -- I voted yes to alleviate overcrowding and because it was obvious we needed another HS. I knew we weren't going to be a physical part of it but it was going to be part of 204 - and that was good enough. What some are asking is that all here today look at Metea the same way.

[macy]

momof3 said:

macy said:

And thank goodness they did. Imagine if the hadn't had the insight they did.

However, many of us are new to the district and weren't privy to the argument at the time.

However, that argument is dead. It's fire in the gas at this point.

Although many of us appreciate it, what's the go forward point in bringing that up? Do the NVHS attendees owe something? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't get it. For those of us who didn't live here when NVHS was built, what can we say?

I moved here for 204 schools... period. Let's be proud of all of them and go from there from this point on.

Most growing districts go through this. In fact, many outrageously fast growing districts reboundary time and time again for all levels of school. I think we've been lucky so far in 204 with reboundary fights. I've only experienced one vicious battle in 5 years. My brother, in Virginia, has gone through the same thing for the past 4 years. Three separate elementary schools for his kids in 4 years. The difference is our battle has only been based on the high school and it's been much more viscious than all of the battles he's encountered. Why?

Let's all get over NVHS and be proud of all of our schools. ALL OF US.

It's the history of NVHS that has consumed so much of this Metea argument. Yes... Neuqua is awesome but Waubonsie is too!

Let's all get over it!

I meant that in a 'can't we just all get along' way. We are all in this together - both high schools are in for it if we don't provide a solution. The voters 10 years ago had the foresight, now it's our turn.

Yes! agreed... We are all in this together and it's time to move on!

Thanks to the voters 10 years ago...

Time to move on. WVHS and NVHS are both fabulous schools. I'm happy to send my child to either. Let's get over it.