Tim West Column in 10/10/07 Sun

[macy]

momof3 said:

macy said:

And thank goodness they did. Imagine if the hadn't had the insight they did.

However, many of us are new to the district and weren't privy to the argument at the time.

However, that argument is dead. It's fire in the gas at this point.

Although many of us appreciate it, what's the go forward point in bringing that up? Do the NVHS attendees owe something? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't get it. For those of us who didn't live here when NVHS was built, what can we say?

I moved here for 204 schools... period. Let's be proud of all of them and go from there from this point on.

Most growing districts go through this. In fact, many outrageously fast growing districts reboundary time and time again for all levels of school. I think we've been lucky so far in 204 with reboundary fights. I've only experienced one vicious battle in 5 years. My brother, in Virginia, has gone through the same thing for the past 4 years. Three separate elementary schools for his kids in 4 years. The difference is our battle has only been based on the high school and it's been much more viscious than all of the battles he's encountered. Why?

Let's all get over NVHS and be proud of all of our schools. ALL OF US.

It's the history of NVHS that has consumed so much of this Metea argument. Yes... Neuqua is awesome but Waubonsie is too!

Let's all get over it!

I meant that in a 'can't we just all get along' way. We are all in this together - both high schools are in for it if we don't provide a solution. The voters 10 years ago had the foresight, now it's our turn.

Your turn for what? Do the newcomers in 204 have some sort of debt we owe you?

I really hoping I misunderstood. Please tell me that there is no expected "payback" from new folks to the district for those that funded NVHS. That's what I've feared all along.

Every growing district has that issue. Not just 204. Read my above post.

At the least, so I can understand your thoughts, please let me know what you mean by "The voters 10 years ago had the foresight, now it's our turn". LOL! I didn't think I had a turn after living in our old district for 15 years despite growth and many boundary changes. What was my turn? Did I miss that chance? There were new schools, old schools, average schools, but nobody seemed to care about that. It was the district as a whole that mattered. No debts. Who do we owe a debt to for moving here? Wow... Seriously. That's a problem. I understand you funded NVHS as a taxpayer, but had you not, all those kids would have been in WVHS... not good. right?

I moved from a district that went out for funds to cover growth Nobody ever asked for "our turn" in terms of payback... Never thought, I could ever hit them back with "it's our turn" and get those new to the district to respond with anything.

Whose turn? Parents? Taxpayers? Newcomers?

Growth in enrollment is growth period. Nobody's payback. IMHO- if we'd have passed the 2005 referendum without boundary emotion, our district would not be dealing with this "it's our turn" situation right now.

Again. Get over it- there is no debt owed (as far as I know) in terms of how long someone has been in the district or where they live. We need space. Put the school where we can afford it and build it .

Advice to the decision makers. Listen to all of us... North, South CFO, middle, stupid people... etc. just listen.

Give everyone a chance to comment prior to the final decision. It will only help all of us in the long run.

I'm probably too emotional in my response, I'm sorry. I've just encountered that "pay back" attitude to many times here in 204. It does no good. What's done is done.

In my opinion, as I've stated before, get over Neuqua, move on. I've come to realize WVHS is just as fabulous. As I said, I'd be proud to send my children there. In fact, I wish we'd been sent to WVHS vs MVHS. Seriously.

[doctorwho]

macy said:

momof3 said:

I meant that in a 'can't we just all get along' way. We are all in this together - both high schools are in for it if we don't provide a solution. The voters 10 years ago had the foresight, now it's our turn.

Your turn for what? Do the newcomers in 204 have some sort of debt we owe you?

I really hoping I misunderstood. Please tell me that there is no expected "payback" from new folks to the district for those that funded NVHS. That's what I've feared all along.

Every growing district has that issue. Not just 204. Read my above post.

At the least, so I can understand your thoughts, please let me know what you mean by "The voters 10 years ago had the foresight, now it's our turn". LOL! I didn't think I had a turn after living in our old district for 15 years despite growth and many boundary changes. What was my turn? Did I miss that chance? There were new schools, old schools, average schools, but nobody seemed to care about that. It was the district as a whole that mattered. No debts. Who do we owe a debt to for moving here? Wow... Seriously. That's a problem. I understand you funded NVHS as a taxpayer, but had you not, all those kids would have been in WVHS... not good. right?

I moved from a district that went out for funds to cover growth Nobody ever asked for "our turn" in terms of payback... Never thought, I could ever hit them back with "it's our turn" and get those new to the district to respond with anything.

Whose turn? Parents? Taxpayers? Newcomers?

Growth in enrollment is growth period. Nobody's payback. IMHO- if we'd have passed the 2005 referendum without boundary emotion, our district would not be dealing with this "it's our turn" situation right now.

Again. Get over it- there is no debt owed (as far as I know) in terms of how long someone has been in the district or where they live. We need space. Put the school where we can afford it and build it .

Advice to the decision makers. Listen to all of us... North, South CFO, middle, stupid people... etc. just listen.

Give everyone a chance to comment prior to the final decision. It will only help all of us in the long run.

I'm probably too emotional in my response, I'm sorry. I've just encountered that "pay back" attitude to many times here in 204. It does no good. What's done is done.

In my opinion, as I've stated before, get over Neuqua, move on. I've come to realize WVHS is just as fabulous. As I said, I'd be proud to send my children there. In fact, I wish we'd been sent to WVHS vs MVHS. Seriously.

Why set the newer people to 204 apart from from everyone else ?Everyone that moves into any good school district anywhere, should be appreciative people before them had the courage to build and fund what was needed. When I moved in way long ago, I am glad those people here before me approved paying for the schools that were here when I moved in, it made the area more desirable for me when I was house hunting. I had a great new ES in my area and I was very appreciative. I am not sure where that is such a horrible thing.

I read the quote as saying it's our turn - with OUR being every one of us here now - brand new yesterday or old , not OUR meaning those of us that have been here a long time. You are part of the district no different than me and it is time WE all band together and get it done.

Now if Momto3 meant something else I will let her explain, but I think you are letting some emotions show here on division, after telling everyone how we all need to get along.

Just my 2 cents - you can jump at me if you like, but I think you are reading things into the post that aren't there, because as you state you've feared that all along. I think that is a bad assumption. Not a personal attack, just my observation.

[momof3]

macy said:

Your turn for what? Do the newcomers in 204 have some sort of debt we owe you?

Ouch! Didn't mean to strike such a nerve. If you mean 'newcomer' as someone who moved here after NV was built then I qualify as a newcomer. By our turn, I meant it's our turn to do what's right for the district, like those in the past have done.

[macy]

I reread the "now it's our turn" comment again. I can honestly see it applied both ways in the context of the sentence. I'm defensive and read it a different way than you did. It's all perspective.

However, my point is still valid. I'm so sick of hearing about how NVHS was overbuilt and we funded it. Move on. to me, the past doesn't mean anything now in terms of how to proceed with Metea.

momof3- in fairness. I reread your comment.. You could have meant "it's our turn" to mean "all of us" in 204. I guess I didn't read into your statement that you were referencing the current situation and "all of us" in the district.

If you meant that, I'm sorry. I'm overly defensive for a reason.

Sick of hearing about NVHS extravagance and WVHS suffering as a result of it.

[Arch]

I read it as it being our turn (collectively as voters) to do the right thing and get this HS built (for the district) because it's the right thing to do, just as building a 2nd school was the right thing to do 10 years ago... regardless of who gets to go where.

[macy]

momof3 said:

macy said:

Your turn for what? Do the newcomers in 204 have some sort of debt we owe you?

Ouch! Didn't mean to strike such a nerve. If you mean 'newcomer' as someone who moved here after NV was built then I qualify as a newcomer. By our turn, I meant it's our turn to do what's right for the district, like those in the past have done.

Thanks for clarification.. We agree in the fact is is "our turn to do what's right for the district, like those in the past have done."

Again, my perspective of how the past has me on the defensive side. That's probably why I overreacted to momof3's post.

C'mon, be honest, it's out there. If we don't acknowledge it and make it go away, it can only hurt the district more.

That "Neuqua- Taj" concept. sick of it. and also sick of the Waubonsie is inferior crap.

Both are great schools.

This whole mentality played a major part in boundary decisions and to this day affects perception on how to proceed with Metea.

That's my opinion. Let's move on and make a decision not based on history of NVHS vs. WVHS. Move on.

Stupid stuff. We should all get over that.

[macy]

archwinsome said:

I read it as it being our turn (collectively as voters) to do the right thing and get this HS built (for the district) because it's the right thing to do, just as building a 2nd school was the right thing to do 10 years ago... regardless of who gets to go where.

Yeah.. me too.. read the post above yours.

BTW: Arch, you and I could argue over the sky being blue vs. orange. That's part of my argument. I would expect you to comment against me if I said that M&M's were made of chocolate. Frankly, I'm sick of that!

[doctorwho]

macy said:

However, my point is still valid. I'm so sick of hearing about how NVHS was overbuilt and we funded it. Move on. to me, the past doesn't mean anything now in terms of how to proceed with Metea.

Couldn't agree more -- Metea is a stand alone issue -- has nothing to do with NV or WV except in that just as once there were too many kids in WV therefore NV was necessary, there are now too many kids in NV and WV therefore MV is necessary. It's the only linkage that has any bearing.

[Arch]

macy said:

archwinsome said:

I read it as it being our turn (collectively as voters) to do the right thing and get this HS built (for the district) because it's the right thing to do, just as building a 2nd school was the right thing to do 10 years ago... regardless of who gets to go where.

Yeah.. me too.. read the post above yours.

BTW: Arch, you and I could argue over the sky being blue vs. orange. That's part of my argument. I would expect you to comment against me if I said that M&M's were made of chocolate. Frankly, I'm sick of that!

I only argue with you when we disagree on things, not just for the sake of arguing.
I would imagine we agree that red and gold together are not a great combo.

[macy]

archwinsome said:

macy said:

Yeah.. me too.. read the post above yours.

BTW: Arch, you and I could argue over the sky being blue vs. orange. That's part of my argument. I would expect you to comment against me if I said that M&M's were made of chocolate. Frankly, I'm sick of that!

I only argue with you when we disagree on things, not just for the sake of arguing.
I would imagine we agree that red and gold together are not a great combo.

What's your favorite Skittle? mine is the other one...

That's my opinion of what's going on lately on this board. Anyone else feel that way?

And yes, red and gold together are awful. Black and gold, great stuff that championship teams are made of.

[Arch]

macy said:

What's your favorite Skittle? mine is the other one...
That's what I feel lately.
And yes, red and gold together are awful. Black and gold, great stuff.

Sometimes a nip at the heels is a good thing. It keeps ideas in check and forces us to re-examine our own beliefs and/or assumptions.

When it comes to things where right and correct do depend on your point of view, it is only natural to butt heads with folks of a different point of view and different priorities. Everyone's right in their own world from their own perspective. We all just happen to slot different things differently in the order of life.

Some examples: cost, space, opportunities, proximity, safety, timeframe, etc
This is not meant to be a complete list, but merely an example.

All are important, and we all give a different 'weight' to the topics when it comes to deciding what's important to us. Welcome to America. We can.

Where I might hold something a higher priority and be nearly inflexible on it, you may deem it less of a priority and can be very flexible on it and visa versa. We're both right from our own point of view. Being able to have the ability to communicate the WHY is a good thing even if it can seem uncomfortable in the process.

Where cost may be the ultimate importance to some, it may not be to me. Perhaps I've lived in places where it's just part of the norm where a premium is paid on things just because of where they are. I could take a half hour to go somewhere where an item might be cheaper but it's easier and 'worth it' to me to go right down the street to a mom and pop store where I know it will cost me more money but I can have it in 5 minutes. It helps me out (time wise) and it helps the local business owner out. By the time I'd put up with the BS of going to Costco (for example), I've already wasted enough money in the form of time and gas that it would have been better to get it over with and put up with less hassle to get it sooner with less crowds to deal with. It's all perspective.

Dang, and this wasn't even boxed wine!

[momof3]

TW's follow up. He printed a letter from someone that claims we have an empty "junior high" sitting around. Wonder if TW didn't get that it's a joke and we don't have a Quiddich team...?

www.suburbanchicagonews.com/napervillesun/news/west/602670,6_4_NA14_WESTCOLUMN_S1.article

One man's field of dreams is another's field of nightmares

October 14, 2007
The subject of the sharing of sports facilities among high schools, in particular large sports stadiums, drew a lot of responses.

The following are excerpts from some of the e-mails I received after a recent column, followed by a few brief comments of my own.

• "A stadium is only used a half-dozen times a year? Let see, there are ... Frosh, soph, varsity games. soccer, boys and girls. Track gets used, boys and girls. Phys ed classes use the track as well."

• "Tim West's suggestion that the two 203 high schools share a stadium is a great idea. To expand on this, wouldn't it make sense to build an athletic complex in the Caroline Martin Mitchell property that would include said stadium along with an aquatic center?

"There has been a need for an aquatic center for some time. A big hurdle for an aquatic center has been location - this center would be centrally located. Also, wouldn't it be possible to share the cost with the Park District, 203 and North Central College? NCC has already pledged $1 million plus for a Natatorium and as anyone with kids who swim can tell you, there is a real need for more pool space."

• "I have no objection to Naperville parents wanting the biggest and the best for their children. I grew up in a blue collar town in New Jersey in the 50s, so I understand living the alternative. Our high school basketball ... gym burnt to the ground at the start of my senior season, and we traveled to the neighboring town's high school gyms to play our home schedule for the entire season. We even had to go to other schools to practice. In spite of this 'hardship', we ended up one game away from going to the NJ State finals in our group size, and won our conference championship for the first time with a 17-3 record.

"As a 'fixed income senior citizen' living in and enjoying Naperville, I don't want to participate in this hysteria to insure the kids today have the total materialistic experience."

• "I read your commentary on the new Metea Valley High School this morning.

Following your line of reasoning, should the new high school eliminate the football program completely? My understanding is that there is an existing brand-new junior high school sitting empty that could easily be used as a high school. Perhaps universal participation team sports could be played by all students. Sports that come to mind are baseball, soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, flag football and don't forget quidditch."

Here are a few comments back at you.

First, while there are a lot of sports activities that take place in the stadiums at all our high schools, there are very few that draw enough to need thousands of seats.

Band practice, lacrosse, phys ed and most others need fields - not large stadiums.

No, the column was not about Metea. If I recall correctly the district promised a full stadium at that high school and it needs to keep that promise.

In all honesty, both districts are probably too far along in their growth patterns to do anything along the line of large facility sharing.

Basically this would mandate some neutral site stadium (like we have when Central and North use North Central College's for their crosstown game) with a huge seating capacity to accommodate not only big varsity football games but graduations and whatever other enormous public functions come along as well.

However, with District 203 not going to have a third high school and District 204 locked into what it has planned and already built, it's more of an interesting point to ponder than a reality.