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Post by lacy on Apr 11, 2010 16:21:37 GMT -6
Is there some reason we called this thread the tail of 2 districts and not tale?!
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Apr 11, 2010 18:11:12 GMT -6
Lacy, when comparing other large "unit type" school districts many have low cost per student ratios. There are many reasons for these efficiencies including lower labor overhead regarding administration costs. Lower teacher costs as high school teachers are paid the same as grade school teachers. An example of this would be the Fenton high school district 100 (Bensenville) paid an average high school teacher just a bit over $92,000 in school year 2007, Our district being a unit district paid an average of just over $65,000. Of course one might say we did pay our teachers about $4,000 more than the state average. When taking into account the "very inexpensive cost of living" in most of the 204 viewing area, I am assuming most of our teachers commute in from Ottawa, Dekalb, or Rockford area where the cost of living would match the salary scale. School districts that tend to have larger cost per pupil include districts like Bensenville District 100 which only has a high school tend to have a much higher cost per pupil $+/- $25,000 including instructional and operating expenses. Our district high school pupil cost would come in at +/- $15,700 for the same year. I will leave the websites of both so you may take a look at your leisure. ipsdweb.ipsd.org/uploads/SchoolReportCards/2009/District.pdfwww.fenton100.org/around/Report_Card/2009%20Report%20Card.pdf |
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Post by Arch on Apr 11, 2010 18:55:08 GMT -6
Speaking of Ottawa... Who's got the sweetheart deal out there for pictures and signage around the schools... HR Imaging, is it? How much annually do they make off the district parents with their overpriced picture packets? Funny how when we were kids and places actually used FILM and had to PROCESS IT it didn't cost anywhere near this much even when adjusted for inflation... Enter the digital age where you re-use all your memory cards, hard drive space and use the same software yet you're pretty much spending $50 minimum or even $100 just to have a few things to send to a select few relatives.
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Post by doctorwho on Apr 11, 2010 19:21:19 GMT -6
I whole-heartedly agree with you. And how is it a good thing that our taxes are so high when the district spends much less per student than other districts? We have the pretty buildings - with the fancy sports fields, etc. But dig beneath the surface and the fact is neighboring school districts and private schools run circles around 204. I would rather be in a district with less fancy facilities that spent more per student to educate the kids. Ding, ding, ding, ding!!! The whole problem with this district is looks and not what goes on inside the buildings!!! If we spent as much time working on what goes on inside our buildings instead of fighting for a brand new high school what a district we would live in. Look at Benet, how old is that building? What goes on in that building? Oh, they educate the kids!!!!! -- it's NOT a shiny new building in ones back yard that educates kidsEnrollment: 1333 students Seniors: 324 Juniors: 328 Sophomores: 340 Freshmen: 339 Teaching Faculty: 76 Full Faculty: 81 Average Faculty Tenure: 17.6 years Tuition: $8200.00 Mean ACT Scores Required of all Benet Students ACT TEST English 29.6 Benet 20.5 Illinois 20.6 National Reading 28.3 Benet 20.8 Illinois 21.4 National Math 27.6 Benet 20.7 Illinois 21.0 National Science Reasoning 26.3 Benet 20.7 Illinois 20.9 National
Composite 28.1 Benet 20.8 Illinois 21.1 National Mean SAT I Scores Optional, but taken by a majority of Benet Students SAT TEST Critical Reading 632 Benet 501 National Mathematics 643 Benet 515 National Writing 631 Benet 493 National Advanced Placement Information In May 2009, 316 Benet students took a total of 563 AP exams.
Their score distribution was as follows: 5 = 22%
4 = 35%
3 = 30% 2 = 10% 1 = 3% so 87% of AP class talers got college credits |
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Post by macrockett on Apr 11, 2010 19:27:03 GMT -6
Is there some reason we called this thread the tail of 2 districts and not tale?! School District Legal Status The People and Their School District The public schools belong to the people. The people govern the schools under rights guaranteed to them under the Constitution and statutes of the State of Illinois. The people exercise their proprietorship through the elective process. They elect state and federal representatives who establish - through the Legislature and the Congress - the framework of law within which the schools operate. The people select a school board to represent them and to determine local educational plans and policy and to establish publicly endorsed educational goals and objectives. The School District 204 Board of Education functions as an agency of the public within this framework. The people are the head of the District. The school board is the tail. We, the people, elect the school board to oversee the District. The story is ultimately a comparison of the two "tails" |
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Post by macrockett on Apr 11, 2010 19:36:30 GMT -6
Ding, ding, ding, ding!!! The whole problem with this district is looks and not what goes on inside the buildings!!! If we spent as much time working on what goes on inside our buildings instead of fighting for a brand new high school what a district we would live in. Look at Benet, how old is that building? What goes on in that building? Oh, they educate the kids!!!!! -- it's NOT a shiny new building in ones back yard that educates kidsEnrollment: 1333 students Seniors: 324 Juniors: 328 Sophomores: 340 Freshmen: 339 Teaching Faculty: 76 Full Faculty: 81 Average Faculty Tenure: 17.6 years Tuition: $8200.00 Mean ACT Scores Required of all Benet Students ACT TEST English 29.6 Benet 20.5 Illinois 20.6 National Reading 28.3 Benet 20.8 Illinois 21.4 National Math 27.6 Benet 20.7 Illinois 21.0 National Science Reasoning 26.3 Benet 20.7 Illinois 20.9 National
Composite 28.1 Benet 20.8 Illinois 21.1 National Mean SAT I Scores Optional, but taken by a majority of Benet Students SAT TEST Critical Reading 632 Benet 501 National Mathematics 643 Benet 515 National Writing 631 Benet 493 National Advanced Placement Information In May 2009, 316 Benet students took a total of 563 AP exams.
Their score distribution was as follows: 5 = 22%
4 = 35%
3 = 30% 2 = 10% 1 = 3% so 87% of AP class talers got college credits There's some cheap land on 248th. Now all we need is vouchers. |
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Post by asmodeus on Apr 11, 2010 21:23:20 GMT -6
Obviously the comparison of a private school is somewhat flawed, but the larger point is this:
Just as the age of the building has little to do with the quality of the education, the faculty is not the major indicator for excellence either. Far and away, the biggest determinant to success for a school is the percentage of families with two parents, who place a high priority on educating their kids. That's really all there is to it. That's why private schools outperform public. Not because they have better teachers. Not because they have better facilities (they're usually worse). Rather, it's because they have better quality kids coming from better quality families.
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Post by lacy on Apr 12, 2010 6:09:35 GMT -6
Is there some reason we called this thread the tail of 2 districts and not tale?! School District Legal Status The People and Their School District The public schools belong to the people. The people govern the schools under rights guaranteed to them under the Constitution and statutes of the State of Illinois. The people exercise their proprietorship through the elective process. They elect state and federal representatives who establish - through the Legislature and the Congress - the framework of law within which the schools operate. The people select a school board to represent them and to determine local educational plans and policy and to establish publicly endorsed educational goals and objectives. The School District 204 Board of Education functions as an agency of the public within this framework. The people are the head of the District. The school board is the tail. We, the people, elect the school board to oversee the District. The story is ultimately a comparison of the two "tails" You couldn't be more right.  |
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Post by lacy on Apr 12, 2010 6:19:27 GMT -6
Obviously the comparison of a private school is somewhat flawed, but the larger point is this: Just as the age of the building has little to do with the quality of the education, the faculty is not the major indicator for excellence either. Far and away, the biggest determinant to success for a school is the percentage of families with two parents, who place a high priority on educating their kids. That's really all there is to it. That's why private schools outperform public. Not because they have better teachers. Not because they have better facilities (they're usually worse). Rather, it's because they have better quality kids coming from better quality families. Having seen both sides, I disagree. I think tenure in the public schools allows some (certainly not all) teachers to become slackers. They know nothing can happen to them. I see more passion in the private schools and more consistent quality of instruction. And I think the focus in the private schools is clearly education in core subjects. There are so many things going on in public schools - and resources are diverted to them too often. Kids have to jump through too many non-academic hoops (like PE finals) to keep their GPA up - when they would have benefited from using that time to study for math, english, etc. And lastly, in the private schools they do what academically works - (year in and year out) like teaching grammar, vocab consistently. There is no "Everyday Math" experiment and then - whoops - that didn't work. They provide a consistent and quality product for the price. |
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Post by brant on Apr 12, 2010 6:48:58 GMT -6
Obviously the comparison of a private school is somewhat flawed, but the larger point is this: Just as the age of the building has little to do with the quality of the education, the faculty is not the major indicator for excellence either. Far and away, the biggest determinant to success for a school is the percentage of families with two parents, who place a high priority on educating their kids. That's really all there is to it. That's why private schools outperform public. Not because they have better teachers. Not because they have better facilities (they're usually worse). Rather, it's because they have better quality kids coming from better quality families. Having seen both sides, I disagree. I think tenure in the public schools allows some (certainly not all) teachers to become slackers. They know nothing can happen to them. I see more passion in the private schools and more consistent quality of instruction. And I think the focus in the private schools is clearly education in core subjects. There are so many things going on in public schools - and resources are diverted to them too often. Kids have to jump through too many non-academic hoops (like PE finals) to keep their GPA up - when they would have benefited from using that time to study for math, english, etc. And lastly, in the private schools they do what academically works - (year in and year out) like teaching grammar, vocab consistently. There is no "Everyday Math" experiment and then - whoops - that didn't work. They provide a consistent and quality product for the price. I wholeheartedly agree. Most private schools focus on the basics and constantly drill their students in those areas. There is also a greater emphasis on the classics to use an example. What many of us grew up on is being abandoned in the name of progressive education. And the state requires too much BS from the kids. I sometimes feel the state doesn't give a damn about the kids and only about making themselves look good. |
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Post by doctorwho on Apr 12, 2010 7:05:12 GMT -6
Obviously the comparison of a private school is somewhat flawed, but the larger point is this: Just as the age of the building has little to do with the quality of the education, the faculty is not the major indicator for excellence either. Far and away, the biggest determinant to success for a school is the percentage of families with two parents, who place a high priority on educating their kids. That's really all there is to it. That's why private schools outperform public. Not because they have better teachers. Not because they have better facilities (they're usually worse). Rather, it's because they have better quality kids coming from better quality families. Having seen both sides, I disagree. I think tenure in the public schools allows some (certainly not all) teachers to become slackers. They know nothing can happen to them. I see more passion in the private schools and more consistent quality of instruction. And I think the focus in the private schools is clearly education in core subjects. There are so many things going on in public schools - and resources are diverted to them too often. Kids have to jump through too many non-academic hoops (like PE finals) to keep their GPA up - when they would have benefited from using that time to study for math, english, etc. And lastly, in the private schools they do what academically works - (year in and year out) like teaching grammar, vocab consistently. There is no "Everyday Math" experiment and then - whoops - that didn't work. They provide a consistent and quality product for the price. Bingo on the basics -- my biggest eye opener was Enlgish grammar-- and how to use it to write properly. I guess I should have paid more attention to the little things, as I just assumed our kids ( my kids) were being taught things lke that. Only to find out neither of my kids had been taught. My youngest got a rude awakening when she started at Benet only to realize she was behind almost every kid there - far behind- and as a straight A student quite shocked. All I hear in 204 is how they want to teach to the test scores- well if you have no idea whata gerund or infinitive is -- if you could have a melt down breaking down sentences or finding a past pefect participle...how the hell can you read and write effectively ? There's another reason why some kids score higher- they actually know the material and more importantly know 'why they know the answers' Let me explain that phrase - they haven't just memorized some answers- they know the ins and outs as to why what they remember is correct - so can adapt that knowledge to other situations. --- as for gym and 'classes' like that - we have it, it is important to a childs health, but half the grade is exams on everything from the sports and rules/history themselves - to questions and the physical impacts on the body from certain sports etc. The killer is they actually have to learn something in gym-- yet it doesn't count in their GPA. No fluff to pad the GPA. Classes not 'weighted' so that everyone and their brother is encuraged to take AP classes, yet then end up wioth a poor rate of those actually getting college credit for them. It truly is basics- and although it may seem like 100 years ago I was tuaght ALL of those things in public school when I attended..what has happened? I would have died in Latin if I did not know English basics. I attended a quote/ unquote inner city school and our ACT score ( adjusted for max differences between 33 then and 36 now) - average was in the low 20's. I refuse to believe kids have gotten less able to learn - |
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Post by asmodeus on Apr 12, 2010 7:09:31 GMT -6
Don't know if I can agree with that entirely. I went to a private high school, and know of many other schools, that included a heavy dose of religion. One could argue that the time devoted to religion classes could be used for "core" subjects.
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Post by doctorwho on Apr 12, 2010 7:15:35 GMT -6
Having seen both sides, I disagree. I think tenure in the public schools allows some (certainly not all) teachers to become slackers. They know nothing can happen to them. I see more passion in the private schools and more consistent quality of instruction. And I think the focus in the private schools is clearly education in core subjects. There are so many things going on in public schools - and resources are diverted to them too often. Kids have to jump through too many non-academic hoops (like PE finals) to keep their GPA up - when they would have benefited from using that time to study for math, english, etc. And lastly, in the private schools they do what academically works - (year in and year out) like teaching grammar, vocab consistently. There is no "Everyday Math" experiment and then - whoops - that didn't work. They provide a consistent and quality product for the price. I wholeheartedly agree. Most private schools focus on the basics and constantly drill their students in those areas. There is also a greater emphasis on the classics to use an example. What many of us grew up on is being abandoned in the name of progressive education. And the state requires too much BS from the kids. I sometimes feel the state doesn't give a damn about the kids and only about making themselves look good. it's all test scores and GPA's. The inflated GPA's now make the news all too often with schools being caught 'padding' them to make a target. I am shocked to hear some of my daughters friends talk about 'do overs' on poor tests, and for us here, the % of the grade in middle school that comes from just doing homework is obscene ! I will give the good Dr. who left credit for one thing( and I did tell him so on this one) - that HAS to change. You have kids who never get an A on a test, and could conceivably have a C student get A's in classes due to homework and extra credit. It's crazy - they don't know the material. comparison on grades- passing in 204 HS is 60% - a full 10% lower than the private schools around here. So the inflated GPA's are not apples to apples.. A 74 is a solid C-- it would be a D and 4 points from failing. |
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Post by lacy on Apr 12, 2010 7:17:19 GMT -6
Don't know if I can agree with that entirely. I went to a private high school, and know of many other schools, that included a heavy dose of religion. One could argue that the time devoted to religion classes could be used for "core" subjects. True - but it's a 1/2 credit. I also see them weave the writing curriculum into it and a dose of morals and values won't hurt! There are no PE finals and the PE grade isn't factored into the GPA. Although I think the PE program is good and the kids seem to enjoy it and benefit from it - I just don't sense the same dynamic as in the public schools which seems to be they have to justify their award winning program by being unreasonable with the kids at times... |
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Post by concerned2 on Apr 12, 2010 7:20:08 GMT -6
And the point is is that Benet maintains it building and it does not have state of the art facilities. It focuses on EDUCATION. If you don't want to use private school as an example look at 203 older buildings and they educate kids. 204 has become more about appearances. I feel the quality of education here has declined and will continue to do so until our SB wakes up and stops all this nonsense and gets back to educating our kids and stop wasting tax payer money!!!! Just think if we could of invested just the 6 million wasted dollars on the BB land that we own into teachers and curriculum. Instead we put it in brick and mortar only to have the increased class sizes we were told we were not going to have.
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