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Post by macrockett on Apr 12, 2010 8:16:36 GMT -6
And the point is is that Benet maintains it building and it does not have state of the art facilities. It focuses on EDUCATION. If you don't want to use private school as an example look at 203 older buildings and they educate kids. 204 has become more about appearances. I feel the quality of education here has declined and will continue to do so until our SB wakes up and stops all this nonsense and gets back to educating our kids and stop wasting tax payer money!!!! Just think if we could of invested just the 6 million wasted dollars on the BB land that we own into teachers and curriculum. Instead we put it in brick and mortar only to have the increased class sizes we were told we were not going to have. And let alone the $17 million plus that was wasted to push MVHS to $144+ (and the yearly operating costs it entails), the District also pushed back the payment of already existing debt to lower property taxes (from the lower principal payoff) thereby creating even more interest expense going forward. If that weren't enough, in the near future there will be competition for capital to pay for budget deficits of many countries, including the US, as well as their existing debt, state and local government budget deficits and existing debt, refinancing of commercial real estate loans coming due and, hopefully, business expansion as growth picks up. District 204 will be right there, competing in those markets, most likely at higher rates. |
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Post by lacy on Apr 12, 2010 8:29:41 GMT -6
The district loves to say that referendum money had to be spent on the school only - but what about the excess money that spent on MV? And how much over budget did they go? What about the long-term effects of refinancing the debt? What about the cost of Brach Brodie?
All of that money could have been put towards the education of the kids.
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Post by brant on Apr 12, 2010 8:36:20 GMT -6
And the point is is that Benet maintains it building and it does not have state of the art facilities. It focuses on EDUCATION. If you don't want to use private school as an example look at 203 older buildings and they educate kids. 204 has become more about appearances. I feel the quality of education here has declined and will continue to do so until our SB wakes up and stops all this nonsense and gets back to educating our kids and stop wasting tax payer money!!!! Just think if we could of invested just the 6 million wasted dollars on the BB land that we own into teachers and curriculum. Instead we put it in brick and mortar only to have the increased class sizes we were told we were not going to have. I am glad people are starting to see that a brand new state of the art school does not guarantee anything. The school I graduated from which is always in the top five in the state was built in 1901. The newest HS on the North Shore is Stevenson whose first graduating class was in 1967. And then there is Hinsdale Central which was built in the 1930s. It is all about education and nothing more. What we in #204 have discovered is that a great school district can be ruined by in this case our SB because of poor decisions wasted funds etc that we all know about. |
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Post by macrockett on Apr 12, 2010 8:36:34 GMT -6
The district loves to say that referendum money had to be spent on the school only - but what about the excess money that spent on MV? And how much over budget did they go? What about the long-term effects of refinancing the debt? What about the cost of Brach Brodie? All of that money could have been put towards the education of the kids. Yes, facts conveniently left out and/or rationalized. When your plan is ad hoc, and disorganized, expect to pay more. |
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Post by Arch on Apr 12, 2010 9:55:57 GMT -6
Decisions ruled by emotions tend to be the most damaging to one's wallet.
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Post by sam2 on Apr 12, 2010 10:19:58 GMT -6
Our experience in moving from 204 schools to private schools supports the assertion that the private schools place more emphasis on the fundamentals. Our youngest moved to the private system in 4th grade and was at least 6 months behind his peers. I still remember his astonishment that "spelling counted in all classes, not just on the spelling test." I think that is indicative of what others have pointed out about teaching to the test, about grade inflation, etc. It's much harder to earn an A in the private system.
As Doc pointed out, the academic performance of Benet and St. Francis, to name two schools is better overall than the public counterparts. However, in fairness these schools have entrance tests and are populated by students whose parent place a high value on education. Which gives them an advantage.
Someone else on this thread pointed out the impact of parents and economic strata have on student performance. I don't doubt that, but our administration like to take credit for the success of the district, even though much of it is due to circumstances beyond their control.
My final point on comparisons raises an issue about cost. Private high schools cost between $8K and $9K per year -- less than the average cost per student in 204. But, that is not a valid comparison. Private elementary schools cost far less than private high schools. If you assume that K-8 cost $6,000 per year in the private sector, and apply that rate to the 20,771 student in pre-K through grade 8 in 204, it works out to $124,626,000 in education expense. The district's report card states that costs are $9,698/student times 28,733 students for a total of $278,652,600. If you assume my $6,000 elementary cost is in the ballpark, then the cost for high school is about $17,000 per student or twice the cost in the private sector.
I know I'm making assumptions, but I don't think it is unreasonable to think that the cost per student is lower in the lower grades and higher at the secondary level. I don't know the actual breakdown in costs at the high school level, but I firmly believe it is much higher than the average cost per student across all grades.
I also recognize that some allowance has to be made for special education and transportation and books, which the private schools don't fund.....I just think the cost comparisons should be more apples to apples than what I normally see.
Part of what the public schools offer over private is variety in curriculum and in extra-curricular activities. There is no question that the music program in 204 offers advantages over St. Francis. Similarly, the technology offerings are better in 204 than at St. Francis, but overall, we still have no regrets -- we've seen both sides firsthand and are grateful that we were able to afford the cost of private education. Despite the lack of shiny buildings and state of the art programs, the education was second to none.
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Post by doctorwho on Apr 12, 2010 10:29:26 GMT -6
And the point is is that Benet maintains it building and it does not have state of the art facilities. It focuses on EDUCATION. If you don't want to use private school as an example look at 203 older buildings and they educate kids. 204 has become more about appearances. I feel the quality of education here has declined and will continue to do so until our SB wakes up and stops all this nonsense and gets back to educating our kids and stop wasting tax payer money!!!! Just think if we could of invested just the 6 million wasted dollars on the BB land that we own into teachers and curriculum. Instead we put it in brick and mortar only to have the increased class sizes we were told we were not going to have. Benet just added a 'state of the art' Science wing last fall-- but before they had it , it's not as if learning was not going on. Yes, there's a <10 year old gym facility also - but the freshman play games in the 'old gym' and kids learn about tradition.www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=244526&src=10( you'd have to see this to believe it - amazing...but 2 other key words- ahead of schedule and UNDER BUDGET. ) At least I see where my money goes - and it benefits ALL the kids, not a few. All we hear about is the age of the Waubonsie power plant- 'are you kidding me" - 30 years is now old ? It is I guess when an extremely SELFISH group of people feel somehow 'entitled' to their own Taj Mahal... those comments really grate at me. |
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Post by Arch on Apr 12, 2010 10:30:26 GMT -6
From an 'out of pocket' perspective, private school still costs you your property taxes for 204 *AND* the cost of private school tuition.
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Post by lacy on Apr 12, 2010 10:59:07 GMT -6
From an 'out of pocket' perspective, private school still costs you your property taxes for 204 *AND* the cost of private school tuition. Very true. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make given the state of our district. In general, and even though I am not part of it anymore, I would like the district to be good stewards of our tax dollars and focus on core academics (that means NOT 37 kids in a math class!), and not spend money on facilities when it is not necessary/needed. A fancy building and fancy sports fields, etc. never educated anyone. |
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Post by doctorwho on Apr 12, 2010 10:59:23 GMT -6
Our experience in moving from 204 schools to private schools supports the assertion that the private schools place more emphasis on the fundamentals. Our youngest moved to the private system in 4th grade and was at least 6 months behind his peers. I still remember his astonishment that "spelling counted in all classes, not just on the spelling test." I think that is indicative of what others have pointed out about teaching to the test, about grade inflation, etc. It's much harder to earn an A in the private system. As Doc pointed out, the academic performance of Benet and St. Francis, to name two schools is better overall than the public counterparts. However, in fairness these schools have entrance tests and are populated by students whose parent place a high value on education. Which gives them an advantage. Someone else on this thread pointed out the impact of parents and economic strata have on student performance. I don't doubt that, but our administration like to take credit for the success of the district, even though much of it is due to circumstances beyond their control. My final point on comparisons raises an issue about cost. Private high schools cost between $8K and $9K per year -- less than the average cost per student in 204. But, that is not a valid comparison. Private elementary schools cost far less than private high schools. If you assume that K-8 cost $6,000 per year in the private sector, and apply that rate to the 20,771 student in pre-K through grade 8 in 204, it works out to $124,626,000 in education expense. The district's report card states that costs are $9,698/student times 28,733 students for a total of $278,652,600. If you assume my $6,000 elementary cost is in the ballpark, then the cost for high school is about $17,000 per student or twice the cost in the private sector. I know I'm making assumptions, but I don't think it is unreasonable to think that the cost per student is lower in the lower grades and higher at the secondary level. I don't know the actual breakdown in costs at the high school level, but I firmly believe it is much higher than the average cost per student across all grades. I also recognize that some allowance has to be made for special education and transportation and books, which the private schools don't fund.....I just think the cost comparisons should be more apples to apples than what I normally see. Part of what the public schools offer over private is variety in curriculum and in extra-curricular activities. There is no question that the music program in 204 offers advantages over St. Francis. Similarly, the technology offerings are better in 204 than at St. Francis, but overall, we still have no regrets -- we've seen both sides firsthand and are grateful that we were able to afford the cost of private education. Despite the lack of shiny buildings and state of the art programs, the education was second to none. the science wing @ Benet moves it technologically past 204 schools - but yes the music/arts programs are really good in 204 ( provided they don't get cut severely now) - yes there are entrance exams- but siblings only have to score a 60% to enter... parental involvement is tremendous but also there are plenty of parents who are 'sacrificing' to send kids ( many times multiple kids) there and St Francis and JCA etc. plenty of people with 2-3 kids in HS...not many people have an 'extra'$16K-$24K per year laying around.. you do without other things. So yes, most make sure their kids are taking advantage of their opportunity. |
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Post by sam2 on Apr 12, 2010 11:00:06 GMT -6
From an 'out of pocket' perspective, private school still costs you your property taxes for 204 *AND* the cost of private school tuition. Arch, we know that all too well. Part of our consideration in moving here over 20 years ago was the school system. Our experience found it failed to meet our needs. ( I don't intend to offend anyone, I know many, many families whose children were very well served by 204. Ours were not. I don't blame the district for that.) Our youngest graduates in a month, so the cost of private high school will be replaced ( and then some) by college tuition but the cost of 204's wasteful spending will continue to impact our property taxes until we move out. Since I have nearly zero confidence that our administration is up to the task that lies ahead, I think that the future is going to be quite ugly from a tax standpoint. |
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Post by doctorwho on Apr 12, 2010 11:07:43 GMT -6
From an 'out of pocket' perspective, private school still costs you your property taxes for 204 *AND* the cost of private school tuition. absolutely- and that makes me even more angry when I see people piss our money away here on things that did not raise the educational delivery level one iota ! It's all about damn show...I never really got the 'outrage' over Neuqua when it was built..I guess because I wasn't going there I overlooked the extravagence..( my bad )- and missed it as a precursor of the crappy stewardship of our monies to continue on afterwards. Maybe because ' times were good' many of us also looked pas it'- not a good excuse but might explain some yes, in reality high school for my one child cost me over $15K between taxes AND tuition. I am still willing to make that sacrifice to not have the group of knuckleheads we currently have running 204 have no impact on my child. And a sacrifice it truly is...but I also know my child appreciates it. She is at a school she will be able to stay at all 4 years - did not have to move from -- had all the same offerings freshman year as it will her senior year- will be completely prepared for college work, and only takes 12 minutes to get to. Toss on top an atmosphere of Christian morals and ethics...and the check writing gets pretty easy. Also as a parent volunteer I get to avoid having to deal with the selfish SOB's that put their back yard school ahead of the needs of the district...don't want to be around them any more than they want to be around me. |
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Post by doctorwho on Apr 12, 2010 11:30:05 GMT -6
From an 'out of pocket' perspective, private school still costs you your property taxes for 204 *AND* the cost of private school tuition. Arch, we know that all too well. Part of our consideration in moving here over 20 years ago was the school system. Our experience found it failed to meet our needs. ( I don't intend to offend anyone, I know many, many families whose children were very well served by 204. Ours were not. I don't blame the district for that.) Our youngest graduates in a month, so the cost of private high school will be replaced ( and then some) by college tuition but the cost of 204's wasteful spending will continue to impact our property taxes until we move out. Since I have nearly zero confidence that our administration is up to the task that lies ahead, I think that the future is going to be quite ugly from a tax standpoint. Agree Sam -- I have 2 years left so we will survive fine also. ( but then I am the hell out of here also- as I will not pay these taxes once the economy turns around- for this group to spend money willy nilly without results) The one thing I will say, and Arch has also brought this topic up on occasion, it also has changed as a school district in the 20 years I have been here. 1/ It was not as territorial 20 years ago. Even though we were the 'south at that time- the entitlement only seemed to affect volunteer positions, as the 'old guard' did not give things up easily..I should have seem the future coming though 2/ The schools focus did not seem nearly so centered on ensuring GPA's were all good and that ISAT's were a focus item where they now actually give up a week of school- just to prepare for the tests 3/ Project arrow was the outlet for high performing students and had much focus - also it seemed OK for kids to get lower and higher grades and be addressed 'individually' not group addressed ( dashboard type approaches) 4/ Waubonsie was not referred to in a negative light EVER- in fact usually quite the opposite, even after Neuqua opened. It was only after a while the green eyes monster seemed to get to some people who 'had to have' something back for their years of being here and paying taxes for our growth. 5/ the grade school principal we had so ultra involved ( can't say enough ) and we got spoiled in my area - |
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Post by doctorwho on Apr 13, 2010 11:35:50 GMT -6
From an 'out of pocket' perspective, private school still costs you your property taxes for 204 *AND* the cost of private school tuition. Very true. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make given the state of our district. In general, and even though I am not part of it anymore, I would like the district to be good stewards of our tax dollars and focus on core academics (that means NOT 37 kids in a math class!), and not spend money on facilities when it is not necessary/needed. A fancy building and fancy sports fields, etc. never educated anyone. For those applying for next fall-- just saw a notice that the 600th 'shadow' going thru Benet today - remember open slots are about 340 -- and my guess is a lot of legacies don't shadow. |
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Post by asmodeus on Apr 13, 2010 18:00:59 GMT -6
We should have built a magnet school.
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