|
|
Post by casey on Apr 12, 2011 16:24:20 GMT -6
Ok after reading SSDM's post criticizing the investigative reporting of some of us on the IPSD discussion board I got interested and started digging around. I came up with some fascinating findings.
I looked on the District board docs and went through a few of the SB meeting minutes. Look for Action Items - Approval of Business and Financial Items. Then look at the Procurement Reports (I looked at the March 2011, January 10, 2011, and December 6, 2010). You'll find some really crazy things.
For example we paid $8880 for WV students to participate in the Art Explorers Thrush (whatever that is) and almost $7000 for NV students to have ACT Shamrock supplies. Believe me these are just the tip of the iceberg purchases. There's some real doozies in there.
Bottom-line is IF our SB and District are truly concerned about cutting costs they should be digging deeper and looking at some of the crazy expenditures taking place in our district. We pay an exorbitant amount to Laidlaw. Looking at the reports it becomes clear just how mismanaged our district is. Just spend a minute looking at all costs of transporting athletes and other participants of band, theater, etc.. We paid $306.80 to Laidlaw to drive the Boy's Basketball team from Metea to Waubonsie. Girls' basketball team cost $170 to go from MV to WV and then $163.20 to go from MV to NV. Sorry but that's just crazy!!!!
I think if the District wants to figure out ways to cut costs they should be looking at every single line item. No item is too small. I'll be curious to hear everyone else's thoughts.
|
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Apr 12, 2011 19:02:02 GMT -6
Ok after reading SSDM's post criticizing the investigative reporting of some of us on the IPSD discussion board I got interested and started digging around. I came up with some fascinating findings. I looked on the District board docs and went through a few of the SB meeting minutes. Look for Action Items - Approval of Business and Financial Items. Then look at the Procurement Reports (I looked at the March 2011, January 10, 2011, and December 6, 2010). You'll find some really crazy things. For example we paid $8880 for WV students to participate in the Art Explorers Thrush (whatever that is) and almost $7000 for NV students to have ACT Shamrock supplies. Believe me these are just the tip of the iceberg purchases. There's some real doozies in there. Bottom-line is IF our SB and District are truly concerned about cutting costs they should be digging deeper and looking at some of the crazy expenditures taking place in our district. We pay an exorbitant amount to Laidlaw. Looking at the reports it becomes clear just how mismanaged our district is. Just spend a minute looking at all costs of transporting athletes and other participants of band, theater, etc.. We paid $306.80 to Laidlaw to drive the Boy's Basketball team from Metea to Waubonsie. Girls' basketball team cost $170 to go from MV to WV and then $163.20 to go from MV to NV. Sorry but that's just crazy!!!! I think if the District wants to figure out ways to cut costs they should be looking at every single line item. No item is too small. I'll be curious to hear everyone else's thoughts. the open checkbook mentality has not changed one iota here....and when you criticize exhorbitant spending practices people question why. It's why we owe our butts off in this district for no reason. As for the bus ride from MV to WV you know my opinion on that- there NEVER should have been a reason for that damn ride- they all should have been Warriors. |
|
|
|
Post by southsidesignmaker on Apr 12, 2011 19:54:07 GMT -6
I guess I hit a nerve, were the bus rides round trip, did the bus wait in the parking lot for the entire game?
How many students were involved in the WV art explorers, was transportation involved?
Please note that I am not trying to be a smart a$$, one must put dollars in perspective. I have found that using percentages is much more effective when considering budgetary numbers. And yes I drive both my CPA and financial adviser a bit crazy with that mind set.
If one needs to look at areas the district has done a steller job in cutting, take a peek at the $aving$ with the outscourcing of janitorial staff. Also take a peak at the wages earned by Teachers Asssistants in district. I think the average taxpayer will be proud of the paltry wages earned by either of these groups. Something tells me very little research will be done on "OLD BLUE" regarding this area.
|
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Apr 12, 2011 20:08:58 GMT -6
I guess I hit a nerve, were the bus rides round trip, did the bus wait in the parking lot for the entire game? How many students were involved in the WV art explorers, was transportation involved? Please note that I am not trying to be a smart a$$, one must put dollars in perspective. I have found that using percentages is much more effective when considering budgetary numbers. And yes I drive both my CPA and financial adviser a bit crazy with that mind set. If one needs to look at areas the district has done a steller job in cutting, take a peek at the $aving$ with the outscourcing of janitorial staff. Also take a peak at the wages earned by Teachers Asssistants in district. I think the average taxpayer will be proud of the paltry wages earned by either of these groups. Something tells me very little research will be done on "OLD BLUE" regarding this area. sorry to say we're well aware of such- we pay the ta's nothing yet some classrooms where more are needed we don't have them. A few hits in a sea of misses doesn't deserve handshakes all around does it ? When you overspend a referendum by $20M -- tell me how many of these other itmes wouldn;t matter for decades. Adding $3.8M of operating expenses every year to a budget also does what ?So you can tout the small gains - but they are a mosquito on an elephants backside when you overspend by freakin' $20M - would you not agree ?? |
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Apr 12, 2011 20:26:09 GMT -6
Next year is worth mentioning a nice offering of more online classes. Apparently they went over so well in the past year that they are expanding them.  I hope that trend continues as it can save A LOT of money to be able to offer more classes for the customers (students) then normal physical room or time permits during the school day (or year for that matter). That's a very good thing, IMO. |
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Apr 12, 2011 20:31:38 GMT -6
Next year is worth mentioning a nice offering of more online classes. Apparently they went over so well in the past year that they are expanding them. I hope that trend continues as it can save A LOT of money to be able to offer more classes for the customers (students) then normal physical room or time permits during the school day (or year for that matter). That's a very good thing, IMO. and just think- MV will then not be overcrowded ! what ? it's not...how can that be ? Where are those 11,000 high school kids hiding ? I agree the on line offerings are a very good idea..and have been in the works for quite some time, but amazingly when attendance projections were being done, and capacities assessed, they were kept under cover Move 10%-20% of classes to on line and WVHS won't make the 5 years I thought it would... |
|
|
|
Post by macrockett on Apr 12, 2011 21:39:13 GMT -6
I guess I hit a nerve, were the bus rides round trip, did the bus wait in the parking lot for the entire game? How many students were involved in the WV art explorers, was transportation involved? Please note that I am not trying to be a smart a$$, one must put dollars in perspective. I have found that using percentages is much more effective when considering budgetary numbers. And yes I drive both my CPA and financial adviser a bit crazy with that mind set. If one needs to look at areas the district has done a steller job in cutting, take a peek at the $aving$ with the outscourcing of janitorial staff. Also take a peak at the wages earned by Teachers Asssistants in district. I think the average taxpayer will be proud of the paltry wages earned by either of these groups. Something tells me very little research will be done on "OLD BLUE" regarding this area. sorry to say we're well aware of such- we pay the ta's nothing yet some classrooms where more are needed we don't have them. A few hits in a sea of misses doesn't deserve handshakes all around does it ? When you overspend a referendum by $20M -- tell me how many of these other itmes wouldn;t matter for decades. Adding $3.8M of operating expenses every year to a budget also does what ?So you can tout the small gains - but they are a mosquito on an elephants backside when you overspend by freakin' $20M - would you not agree ?? Don't be so hard on SSSM Doc. At least he's consistent. Remember a long time ago he couldn't figure out the value of posting administration contracts on "ole blue." And the District is doing a fine job you know. They could have spent a lot more than $19 million of the taxpayer's money if they had wanted to fill that funding gap, that should be worth something. Maybe SSSM is THAT SM that gave that $4199.00 to Bradshaw. After all, he is a sign maker, right? So SSSM, what did you say your name was? |
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Apr 13, 2011 0:44:32 GMT -6
Don't be so hard on SSSM Doc. At least he's consistent. Remember a long time ago he couldn't figure out the value of posting administration contracts on "ole blue." And the District is doing a fine job you know. Keep up the 'good work'  Let's all do breakfast or lunch once the votes are 'certified' and everyone (who still needs to) can exhale. Doc, Mike, Brant, ED, Casey, Me, SSSM, Hell even Steckdad and anyone else (even anyone from Green) {Gatordog, Wvhsparent - I'm looking in your direction} who wants to sit around a table and shoot the bull. Let's do this. Heck, how many SB members can we have (sworn in, to be technically correct, or no longer on the board {Hint: M2, AT if after that upcoming meeting} ) in one place and not violate Open Meetings Act? I'll even tell the black helicopters to stand down  My treat. Name when and where. |
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Apr 13, 2011 5:24:37 GMT -6
sorry to say we're well aware of such- we pay the ta's nothing yet some classrooms where more are needed we don't have them. A few hits in a sea of misses doesn't deserve handshakes all around does it ? When you overspend a referendum by $20M -- tell me how many of these other itmes wouldn;t matter for decades. Adding $3.8M of operating expenses every year to a budget also does what ?So you can tout the small gains - but they are a mosquito on an elephants backside when you overspend by freakin' $20M - would you not agree ?? Don't be so hard on SSSM Doc. At least he's consistent. Remember a long time ago he couldn't figure out the value of posting administration contracts on "ole blue." And the District is doing a fine job you know. They could have spent a lot more than $19 million of the taxpayer's money if they had wanted to fill that funding gap, that should be worth something. Maybe SSSM is THAT SM that gave that $4199.00 to Bradshaw. After all, he is a sign maker, right? So SSSM, what did you say your name was? Thatcher's Grove area is Waubonsie not Neuqua, but gives one pause |
|
|
|
Post by southsidesignmaker on Apr 13, 2011 9:31:15 GMT -6
Mac, you had a field day with those contracts, a bit lopsided don't you think? You post only one side of the story much of the time. Take a peek at other competitive districts and what the pay scale is. Take a look at the contract for janitiorial staff and the $aving$ for going to an outside source. Take a peek at what the Teachers Assistance are paid in district (you may what to compare to say the Bolingbrook district) the difference may impress even you.
No problem with posting anything you want just use a little perspective and compare to other like districts. It is especially irritating when someone with superior god given intellect like yourself chooses not to look into the whole story.
|
|
|
|
Post by macrockett on Apr 13, 2011 10:37:54 GMT -6
Mac, you had a field day with those contracts, a bit lopsided don't you think? You post only one side of the story much of the time. Take a peek at other competitive districts and what the pay scale is. Take a look at the contract for janitiorial staff and the $aving$ for going to an outside source. Take a peek at what the Teachers Assistance are paid in district (you may what to compare to say the Bolingbrook district) the difference may impress even you. No problem with posting anything you want just use a little perspective and compare to other like districts. It is especially irritating when someone with superior god given intellect like yourself chooses not to look into the whole story. Care to be specific about which "those contracts" you are speaking about SSSM? In addition, I draw conclusions based on the facts I present. I would be glad if you want to take the other side, with specifics, as to anything I have said...anything. Feel free to do it right now, right here. Point out my "one side" and how it misrepresents in any way. I welcome your "analysis." One last thing, comparison to "other districts" and what they do is meaningless to me. Each district stands on its own and comparisons are, imo, apples and oranges unless you are speaking of a specific comparison versus generalities. |
|
|
|
Post by macrockett on Apr 13, 2011 11:03:08 GMT -6
"No problem with posting anything you want just use a little perspective and compare to other like districts. It is especially irritating when someone with superior god given intellect like yourself chooses not to look into the whole story."
This is a somewhat troubling statement SSSM. "Especially irritating?" "superior ... given intellect?" "chooses not to look into the whole story?"
Just to focus on the later part, "chooses," what part of the story, or anything for that matter have I distorted, chose to ignore?
I came into this mess without bias SSSM, I gathered all the facts I could find. I spent a great deal of time to do so. That representation is in "The Long and Winding Road." Finally, I dotted my "i"s and crossed my "t"s by having Dave Holm verify significant parts of what I said. It's all over there in my section of this Board.
Feel free to pick it apart, point out what I choose to leave out or otherwise purposely chose to misrepresent. Put your "expertise" where your mouth is.
|
|
|
|
Post by doctorwho on Apr 13, 2011 13:06:27 GMT -6
Mac, you had a field day with those contracts, a bit lopsided don't you think? You post only one side of the story much of the time. Take a peek at other competitive districts and what the pay scale is. Take a look at the contract for janitiorial staff and the $aving$ for going to an outside source. Take a peek at what the Teachers Assistance are paid in district (you may what to compare to say the Bolingbrook district) the difference may impress even you. No problem with posting anything you want just use a little perspective and compare to other like districts. It is especially irritating when someone with superior god given intellect like yourself chooses not to look into the whole story. Care to be specific about which "those contracts" you are speaking about SSSM? In addition, I draw conclusions based on the facts I present. I would be glad if you want to take the other side, with specifics, as to anything I have said...anything. Feel free to do it right now, right here. Point out my "one side" and how it misrepresents in any way. I welcome your "analysis." One last thing, comparison to "other districts" and what they do is meaningless to me. Each district stands on its own and comparisons are, imo, apples and oranges unless you are speaking of a specific comparison versus generalities. Yeah we just went thru this on costs and Curt and Alka presented cases using school districts like Barrington to make their cases- BUT then heaven forbid we use the same school districts for 'complete' comparisons on things like ACT scores etc.-- and people start screaming. You can't cherry pick what you can compare. Want to do great comparison - just use 203. More than 1/2 of 204 lives in Naperville and the % for 203 is just a little higher- so a lot of common ground demographically. Let's compare construction costs compared to referendum's- let's compare tax rates, let's compare the fact that siblings never get split- or they find solutions not to tear the district apart as opposed to hiring a PR firm whose sole job was to do just that... and my favorite- - and you know the only one who listened from admin- Dr D. Yes he was a fish out of water in this district but he understood a few things about 204- which is why he was shuffled out after he did the dirty work for a few SB members. 1/ homework accounting for 30% of grades in some cases is just wrong - and why there is a gap between GPA and test results that even signing a contract with ACT cannot fix, 2/ in the youngest grades for ISAT's 204 kids are at worst equal to 203's in the % that exceeds requirements- yet by 8th grade and high school we fall sometimes far behind 3/ he also understood there were differences not only in our schools score, but in some cases the way things were graded and curriculum. he was an education #'s guy - and he wasn't buffaloed. sat and listened to him talk about this one evening to a group in a local establishment Naper North at 25.2 kicks our backsides and no matter how you want to explain the difference..you'll come up short ... this gap was here in 1990 when I got here and is still here today |
|
|
|
Post by southsidesignmaker on Apr 13, 2011 19:52:46 GMT -6
Mac, Your comment below is perplexing to me.
"One last thing, comparison to "other districts" and what they do is meaningless to me. Each district stands on its own and comparisons are, imo, apples and oranges unless you are speaking of a specific comparison versus generalities."
When I compare items discussed on blue or in other arenas one of the first things I do is look at what other "like kind" districts are doing. This way I have a barometer to measure the topics being discussed. I assumed you would do the same, but then again, I do realize what happens to folks that assume.
I do have a question regarding your mountain of research (which by the way I do appreciate), with all the waste you have brought forward regarding our fine district, do you have a # per year that it will affect the average taxpayer. $400 k is a pretty average valuation in the far south reaches of our district. I do realize that the district pushed out a lot of the debt, I was just curious how these ill repute actions are going to affect my pocketbook on a year to year basis. Dollar amount is not as important as a taxing factor.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Apr 13, 2011 20:02:16 GMT -6
HAHA, this is the reverse of the wife and the credit card... Honey, I only spent $40 at this store today. While neglecting to mention the other 5 stores one shopped at that day, and where they shopped yesterday, where they will shop tomorrow.. etc.
It's the cumulative effect of the mindset that any one thing or even a small number of things are no big deal that leads to trouble.
Perhaps we should turn each dollar amount and convert it to how many more special needs aides we can have employed so each kid that needs it can get the INDIVIDUALIZED (You know, the I in IEP) attention they need as opposed to having 1 aide per handful of kids in the class room and there's no way any kid can really get the assistance they need in the way they need it with the ratios being used. Nope, instead we dumb everything down even below many kid's abilities so they are not learning at their full potential, trim down the tests, give them the answers ahead of time or even while they are taking the test, put that token grade where it belongs and kick them through the system up into the next grade -- lather, rinse, repeat.
How much does it take to have 1 aide employed each year?
|
|
I hope that trend continues as it can save A LOT of money to be able to offer more classes for the customers (students) then normal physical room or time permits during the school day (or year for that matter). That's a very good thing, IMO.