Yes vs NO

[admin]

The boundaries are out of the way.

Time to heal the wounds and get a yes vote

The No vote will be out there.

What should we do to get that yes vote?

[Arch]

Show a side by side comparison of cost/benefit of all options that were reported to have been looked at.

The oversimplified Pro/Con sheet does not cut it.

Get a cost breakdown analysis on the financing and show the tax impact versus long term cost to the district of 12 years at the new rate versus 20 years at the new rate.

Some may be willing to bite the bullet to pull in the payment to a tighter schedule.

Also, a list of whos doing the financial work. Is it Ehlers (Steve Larson's employer) or Oxford Bank, or others or will that be open to competitive bidding? Something similar to a full truth in lending document would be great.

That information would be a good start, I think.

[ogden]

I think it would be really helpful for the homeowners to understand the actual impact on their wallet.
As I understand it, it could be around only $10 - $15 per week increase on their current taxes for a $300,000 home.

Also, the No Camp accuses the SB of "Scare Tactics".
I think the public needs to know that these are not threats, but realities that other school districts are facing when they lack funds.
For example, the Yorkville district was ending extra curricular activities and Minooka(?) was going to split shifts.

It would be helpful to identify the current construction projects and locations in the SD to demonstrate that new homes are continuing to be built.

Lastly, is there anyway to demonstrate that homes with kids are typically sold to families with kids?

[stinks]

archwinsome said:

Show a side by side comparison of cost/benefit of all options that were reported to have been looked at.

The oversimplified Pro/Con sheet does not cut it.

Get a cost breakdown analysis on the financing and show the tax impact versus long term cost to the district of 12 years at the new rate versus 20 years at the new rate.

Some may be willing to bite the bullet to pull in the payment to a tighter schedule.

Also, a list of whos doing the financial work. Is it Ehlers (Steve Larson's employer) or Oxford Bank, or others or will that be open to competitive bidding? Something similar to a full truth in lending document would be great.

That information would be a good start, I think.

Isn't the financing question moot? I thought the SB finance person said that refinancing was going to happen regardless. If that's the case, there's no point in doing the comparison, is there? Probably more of a distraction I would imagine.

[stinks]

ogden said:

I think it would be really helpful for the homeowners to understand the actual impact on their wallet.
As I understand it, it could be around only $10 - $15 per week increase on their current taxes for a $300,000 home.

Also, the No Camp accuses the SB of "Scare Tactics".
I think the public needs to know that these are not threats, but realities that other school districts are facing when they lack funds.
For example, the Yorkville district was ending extra curricular activities and Minooka(?) was going to split shifts.

It would be helpful to identify the current construction projects and locations in the SD to demonstrate that new homes are continuing to be built.

Lastly, is there anyway to demonstrate that homes with kids are typically sold to families with kids?

Is there any empirical data showing a decline in home values when split shifts are implemented in a school district. It makes sense, but I can't find anything. I haven't searched extensively yet, but that would be an interesting bit of information and a real consideration, given Minooka's situation.


Getting a list of all the possible sites and the reasons for dismissing them all except BB is very important. People just aren't convinced because there's been little disclosure other than toss-away comments and conjecture.

[wvhsparent]

stinks said:

ogden said:

I think it would be really helpful for the homeowners to understand the actual impact on their wallet.
As I understand it, it could be around only $10 - $15 per week increase on their current taxes for a $300,000 home.

Also, the No Camp accuses the SB of "Scare Tactics".
I think the public needs to know that these are not threats, but realities that other school districts are facing when they lack funds.
For example, the Yorkville district was ending extra curricular activities and Minooka(?) was going to split shifts.

It would be helpful to identify the current construction projects and locations in the SD to demonstrate that new homes are continuing to be built.

Lastly, is there anyway to demonstrate that homes with kids are typically sold to families with kids?

Is there any empirical data showing a decline in home values when split shifts are implemented in a school district. It makes sense, but I can't find anything. I haven't searched extensively yet, but that would be an interesting bit of information and a real consideration, given Minooka's situation.


Getting a list of all the possible sites and the reasons for dismissing them all except BB is very important. People just aren't convinced because there's been little disclosure other than toss-away comments and conjecture.

Thanks stinks for noticing that. All I have asked for from the SB was such a report. I did get a very small spreadsheet list with limited and outdated info on it.

My paranoid side showing - I wonder if they really did much research, only enough to try and promote BB, as the criteria (also absent) seens to have been made up on the fly to fit BB and only BB.

[Arch]

You asked what it would take to get the YES vote.

I post what it would take

You dismiss it as moot.

That's why you will fail to get the YES vote from many people. Dismissing their concerns as moot and not answering their questions.

It's really that simple.

[wvhsparent]

I think what arch is referring to is How will the financing shake out over it's lifetime. with info such as rates. It should also be done by a 3rd (Neutral) party with verifiable data that our news media should then confirm.
People with always choke when they see a really big number 124.6 Million is a REALLY big number to most people and they shut down without going further as to how it is broken down.

The other big unknown to most is the cost to now run said 3rd HS. Give an estimate (basing it on what it costs to run the 2 exsisting HS), and how the District plans on funding it.

So in a lot of peoples minds financing is still a stumbling block.

[Arch]

They want to know that what they are asking to cough up will solve the problem. Showing them how it will be spent not just initially, but ONGOING helps solidify the decision in their minds.

Here's what we could do for XXX million. It gets us YYY capacity, lasts ZZZ timeframe, costs ABC ongoing yearly.

Do that the same for EVERY option. You can still conclude a 3rdHS is 'best' but without SHOWING how it's best in a direct apples to apples way is not going to make NO people be YES people.

With all the cards on the table, many NO people will go: "Ah.. OK, yes.. I can see how it is best.. OK, I'm voting YES"


If I was a NO person, no matter what, I wouldn't be sitting here pointing out why you're failing to convince people to vote YES.

[wvhsparent]

archwinsome said:

They want to know that what they are asking to cough up will solve the problem. Showing them how it will be spent not just initially, but ONGOING helps solidify the decision in their minds.

Here's what we could do for XXX million. It gets us YYY capacity, lasts ZZZ timeframe, costs ABC ongoing yearly.

Do that the same for EVERY option. You can still conclude a 3rdHS is 'best' but without SHOWING how it's best in a direct apples to apples way is not going to make NO people be YES people.

With all the cards on the table, many NO people will go: "Ah.. OK, yes.. I can see how it is best.. OK, I'm voting YES"


If I was a NO person, no matter what, I wouldn't be sitting here pointing out why you're failing to convince people to vote YES.

I have been asking for this very same info since day one.
If anyone has this info please let me know.

[anoncrazyparent]

Agree. Those of us who have watched this from the beginning and attended the school board meetings know that there are a lot of unanswered questions. I want to vote yes but have the SAME questions. The board should not think that people are not smart enough to ask the right things--they should be thinking this through as well.

[warriorpride]

I have been a YES from the very beginning & I'm going to combine several topics here. I apologize in advance for the length of my post.

For people considering voting NO, the consequences of voting NO seem to have a much more potential negative effect.

- Overcrowding - The middle schools & high schools are crowded right now. There is empty land that more houses will be built on - if not this year, then next year. Even if the projections are off by a few 100, both HS's will still be overcrowded. A failed referendum means that a solution to crowding may be further delayed and the resulting alternatives may be much less desirable (i.e. possibly split shifts, trailers, etc). Nobody can say that reducing the crowding is a bad thing for the kids, right? Yes, there are alternatives, but the SB has recommended what they believe to be the best alternative. And, there are going to be costs (monetary, as well as other tangible & intangible costs) associated with all of those alternatives.

- Cost: District costs are going to go up whether or not the referendum passes. They'll probably build a middle school on BB, etc. The impact of the referendum on an individual's property taxes has shown to be at most in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred’s per year (not thousands). Surely this minimal investment is worth it to protect our kid's middle school & high school experiences, as well as protecting our property values. Will there be another referendum in a few years? Probably, and that's OK. It sounds like the refinancing might lower the property taxes for the short term - and no, it's not a bad thing to spread the cost out over time, having those who use the schools pay for them. A failed referendum MIGHT save you a few property tax dollars in the short term, but it will also likely cost you a lot more in property value.

Boundaries - Many people are upset over the boundaries and the process used to get there. My first choice wasn't selected, but I'm over it. I hope everyone can get over it. I can't fathom voting NO only because you don't like the boundaries or the process. If you believe that the 3rd HS is necessary, please vote YES. A failed referendum is going to cause new boundaries to cram the kids into 2 HSs, with new emotional meetings to determine them - sound like fun?

The SB - Many people are upset about various things that the SB has done or said during this process. These people are humans, and we all make mistakes. They aren't paid (as far as I know), and are donating a huge potion of their free time & energy to helping keep 204 be a great district. These people don't have grand plans to secretly pocket millions of the referendum $. They don't have secret plans to close WV in 10 years. Will WV be closed some day? Maybe – but I can’t worry about 10-15 years from now. I need to worry about my kids having a good school environment NOW. Who even knows if you’re going to be living here in 15 years? The SB is recommending what they believe to be the best solution to the overcrowding. They have investigated the alternatives, both other 3rd HS locations, and non-3rd-HS options. The information is on the ipsd.org site. Voting NO simply to spite the SB doesn't do anyone any good.

Unnecessary School Space – Yes, Pederson is not being used - yet. It WILL eventually be used. The middle and high schools are crowded NOW. Nobody can argue that there’s unnecessary school space being built or proposed. Also, I haven’t been able to find an instance where a high school was built, and there were huge regrets.

Last chance – This really may be our last chance at getting a 3rd HS built. I don’t think that the SB is bluffing & I don’t think people should “call their bluff”.

Thanks for your time.

[forthekids]

I have just started reading this site (got so fed up with the ridiculousness of the other site). Thank you all for insightful and accurate posts. Warriorpride, I second everything you said. Couldn't have said it better. Thanks.

[stinks]

Great summary. Everything I would and have said, but just a little more gently . . .

[truthanyone]

warriorpride,
You have some good points in your summary.
I will be here in 15 years. My oldest will not even be in HS until 2013 and my youngest will not finish until 2021. I am worried about 10-15 years from now and I know alot of parents with kids the same age as mine are also worried and confused. I don't want to be paying this debt only to find out it was not needed. I feel that even if there is a no vote, things can be worked out by the time my kids are in HS. If you are looking for how to get more yes votes, don't discount the families who will be here in 10-15 years.