|
|
Post by twhl on Mar 12, 2008 11:35:24 GMT -6
I didn't see that about the EMF's at NV. Could you point me in the direction of where I can find that info. Also, I didn't know that NV or any other school in District 204 had industrial pipelines running under them on any part of the property. I would love to see an entire map of where these suckers go. They run from Wisconsin to Mexico. I wonder what else is built near them? Subdivisions? Hospitals? Shopping malls? It's not like these pipes are out in the desert. Do any of us really know what is underneath us at any given moment? I have to be afraid of EMF's, radon, underground pipes. I'm moving to Iowa! (Oops then I have to be worried about agricultural pesticides.) What a world we live in. Keep it relevant to this site - was it not the SB that stated early on that there "may" be only one and there "were no spills", go on and on and on. Thanks to Arch and his efforts to force the SB to acknowledge there's a lot more by pushing the facts to the surface. Just more incomplete truths. |
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Mar 12, 2008 11:46:28 GMT -6
Google Search:
National Pipeline Mapping System
Click on Public Map Viewer.
You will see the transits on there.
|
|
|
|
Post by sleeplessinnpvl on Mar 12, 2008 11:48:27 GMT -6
Google Search: National Pipeline Mapping System Click on Public Map Viewer. You will see the transits on there. Thank you Arch. I knew you would come through for me.  Appreciate the data. |
|
|
|
Post by twhl on Mar 12, 2008 12:17:33 GMT -6
Google Search: National Pipeline Mapping System Click on Public Map Viewer. You will see the transits on there. Thank you Arch. I knew you would come through for me. Appreciate the data. Too bad the SB doesnt appreciate it. |
|
|
|
Post by Avenging Eagle on Mar 13, 2008 0:55:22 GMT -6
If you watch the board meeting from Monday, you will learn that the laws in California DO NOT apply to natural gas pipelines. You need to reread the law...It says the only natural gas pipelines are allowable are the small pipelines there for THE SOLE PURPOSE of supplying the school THEIR OWN GAS. Natural Gas pipelines like the one at MWGEN are not allowed on school sites in CA. I finally had a chance to scan the "other" board today to see what was going on, and I found that a few posters admit that they were wrong on this one and BG was also misleading people about this law. That fits since he also never even traveled to the MWGEN site. JB stated the same thing the other day, but noone listened, especially BG. Its funny/interesting that nobody admitted his or her error about understanding of the law on this site! I guess the "other" board does serve a purpose after all! |
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Mar 13, 2008 6:01:38 GMT -6
Its funny/interesting that nobody admitted his or her error about understanding of the law on this site! I guess the "other" board does serve a purpose after all! Blame deflection... I touched on this the other day. No one has a set swinging (sorry for the visual) to admit they were wrong or made a mistake. |
|
|
|
Post by brooksmom on Mar 13, 2008 6:28:59 GMT -6
Its funny/interesting that nobody admitted his or her error about understanding of the law on this site! I guess the "other" board does serve a purpose after all! Blame deflection... I touched on this the other day. No one has a set swinging (sorry for the visual) to admit they were wrong or made a mistake. I am the one that brought it up on the other board. I didn't post about it here so felt no need to "admit an error" here that I didn't make. I'm glad to give you both an opportunity to pat yourselves on the back though. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Mar 13, 2008 7:22:54 GMT -6
Blame deflection... I touched on this the other day. No one has a set swinging (sorry for the visual) to admit they were wrong or made a mistake. I am the one that brought it up on the other board. I didn't post about it here so felt no need to "admit an error" here that I didn't make. I'm glad to give you both an opportunity to pat yourselves on the back though. ;D My reference was about the Admin and SB, not intended towards you and a conversation/thread I'm not aware of. I admit, it was probably injected in the wrong 'conversation' between people on here and gave the wrong impression. It was not intended that way and for that I am sorry. |
|
|
|
Post by sleeplessinnpvl on Mar 13, 2008 8:19:44 GMT -6
Google Search: National Pipeline Mapping System Click on Public Map Viewer. You will see the transits on there. Arch, Thank you for giving me this information on the pipelines again. I admit, I had kind of blown this off until I really sat down and realized these are big puppies lying underneath us. I also read your article on another thread about the Carlsbad, NM gas line explosion. You have been very good at alerting us to the potential ramifications of having pipelines nearby. Now, I realize that if an explosion came, it is not just the immediate area that would be affected as those campers were 0.75 miles away. What, in your opinion, is a safe distance to put our school then? Not be be cavalier about this but to me, what difference does it make if these things are 200 yards from our school or 0.75 miles. Aren't the consequences the same? What do you consider a safe distance? |
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Mar 13, 2008 8:31:06 GMT -6
Google Search: National Pipeline Mapping System Click on Public Map Viewer. You will see the transits on there. Arch, Thank you for giving me this information on the pipelines again. I admit, I had kind of blown this off until I really sat down and realized these are big puppies lying underneath us. I also read your article on another thread about the Carlsbad, NM gas line explosion. You have been very good at alerting us to the potential ramifications of having pipelines nearby. Now, I realize that if an explosion came, it is not just the immediate area that would be affected as those campers were 0.75 miles away. What, in your opinion, is a safe distance to put our school then? Not be be cavalier about this but to me, what difference does it make if these things are 200 yards from our school or 0.75 miles. Aren't the consequences the same? What do you consider a safe distance? I do not know the distance formula off the top of my head but I would suspect that the high level math would work out to something like: Take the 3 pipelines bundled together (natural gas). Take their cumulative volumes of gas and calculate the BTUs that would be output in the event of a rupture/explosion (1 could set off the other two neighboring ones in the bundle due to close proximity) and calculate at what distance the resulting fire would have temperatures back down to normal levels as a result of that burning heat-source. In addition to that, one has to calculate the largest single explosion (most likely from the pipe w/ the largest volume of gas (36" pipe) and calculate out the pressure waves (positive expansion pressure wave and the negative pressure wave after air rushes back in from the initial burn) and at what distance that force no longer causes structure damage or glass breakage or even internal bodily harm that could severe/rupture internal membranes and do internal organ damage to anyone OUTSIDE if such an event were to occur. I would guess that distance would be much more than 1 mile. But we can leave that analysis to the experts. We know from the Carlsbad explosion that 1.2km (3/4 mile) was not far enough. For a good read up on the internal damage to the human body, one can look up the bombs called 'daisy cutters' on google. There is plenty of documentation on the initial blast damage (positive and negative pressure waves) as well as the internal organ damage (almost always lethal, but much slower and painful) to those beyond the initial lethal blast radius that still occurs out away from the 'event'. The distances would be different for each (pipe versus bomb) due to the fuel types and fuel volumes (intensity), but the damage types (pressure and burn) would be similar in casualty characteristics. An ammonium nitrate truck bomb like the one used in OK by Tom McVeigh would be another thing to read up on. I believe in both cases, the pressure waves for the 'bombs' is greater, but they do not have the resulting fuel burn (sustained high BTUs) that would result from a gas fire. |
|
|
|
Post by sushi on Mar 13, 2008 8:50:52 GMT -6
Am I reading this pipeline map correctly? It seems the gas pipeline runs along if not under WV?
|
|
|
|
Post by Arch on Mar 13, 2008 8:56:32 GMT -6
Am I reading this pipeline map correctly? It seems the gas pipeline runs along if not under WV? Negative. They run down the EJ&E (the Crude oil/gasoline pipes) and the others cross Ogden (Rt 34) just West of the tracks at that compressor/pumping station that you can see on the south side of Rt 34. |
|
|
|
Post by sleeplessinnpvl on Mar 13, 2008 9:24:55 GMT -6
I would guess that distance would be much more than 1 mile. But we can leave that analysis to the experts. We know from the Carlsbad explosion that 1.2km (3/4 mile) was not far enough. Thanks for the wonderful graphic explanation of the ruptured membranes. Truly this is a scary situation if any of these things blows. The fact that there are more than one pipeline nearby makes it even worse. I guess you just have to take into account the risk of living near these things. Most people, until a few months ago, didn't even know that they were near their house. However, there are things built everywhere that are less than 1 mile from these pipes. In searching the lines of this pipe system, I found out something very interesting. It seems that our own Indian Plains HS is 0.3 miles from one of those green pipes. Georgetown is 0.14 miles Granger is 0.65 miles McCarty is 0.43 miles I didn't have time to use the measurement thing on each school. But my point is, we have this risk to deal with. But should that stop us from building nearby? We haven't in the past. |
|
|
|
Post by jill on Mar 13, 2008 9:27:39 GMT -6
I would guess that distance would be much more than 1 mile. But we can leave that analysis to the experts. We know from the Carlsbad explosion that 1.2km (3/4 mile) was not far enough. Thanks for the wonderful graphic explanation of the ruptured membranes. Truly this is a scary situation if any of these things blows. The fact that there are more than one pipeline nearby makes it even worse. I guess you just have to take into account the risk of living near these things. Most people, until a few months ago, didn't even know that they were near their house. However, there are things built everywhere that are less than 1 mile from these pipes. In searching the lines of this pipe system, I found out something very interesting. It seems that our own Indian Plains HS is 0.3 miles from one of those green pipes. Georgetown is 0.14 miles Granger is 0.65 miles McCarty is 0.43 miles I didn't have time to use the measurement thing on each school. But my point is, we have this risk to deal with. But should that stop us from building nearby? We haven't in the past. Sleepless, My question to you is the same thing I asked myself after driving past the site last week. Is this the best we can do? |
|
|
|
Post by sleeplessinnpvl on Mar 13, 2008 9:28:54 GMT -6
Am I reading this pipeline map correctly? It seems the gas pipeline runs along if not under WV? If I am using my measurement tool correctly on that site and am measuring the correct green line, WV is 0.96 miles from a pipe. |
|
