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Post by Arch on May 3, 2008 19:51:21 GMT -6
I also notice that some of your data is coming from a group that is paid by the industry to tell people everything is safe. I admit, that might be a little harshly worded, but there comes a point in 'safety' and 'risk analysis' where it's a judgement call. Their purpose is to get things inside a 'justifiable judgement call' zone. Wouldn't you agree? www.questconsult.com/Is the district going to use their consequence analysis services and redesign the building for location within the PIR? Is the district going to have a professional consequence analysis done by their modeling software and release to the public what the actual consequences would be of an event at the Eola with students present? Will they release and publish their onsite emergency response plans, etc.? |
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Post by jwh on May 3, 2008 19:51:23 GMT -6
Player, Thank you for the information. Quite thorough in such a short time frame. I have one question for you. Are you on the district's payroll? Macy, I have one question for you. Are you afraid of the truth? I think Player has added a lot to this board as far as factual info. |
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Post by concerned2 on May 3, 2008 19:54:30 GMT -6
I do believe player posted that there is a 4 times more likely for an older pipe to explode. So if that is the case then what are they going to do about it. What will it cost the district or Morgan Kinder to fix the pipe to make it safer, so we can put a school on it. And if they do won't this delay the school???
It makes NO sense to build a school on this site, PERIOD. It will not work for this district in the future. It was easy to vote yes to NV, it was needed and it was obvious. Just talking to someone in the Builta area stating that there are empty and foreclosed homes in the area. I am seeing an awful lot of that all over. I am sure the enrollment numbers are not going to be what was forecasted. Things are not moving.
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Post by concerned2 on May 3, 2008 19:56:56 GMT -6
Player, Thank you for the information. Quite thorough in such a short time frame. I have one question for you. Are you on the district's payroll? Macy, I have one question for you. Are you afraid of the truth? I think Player has added a lot to this board as far as factual info. I do not think Macy is afraid of the truth, just suspicious of someone who late in the game is posting on the board. Even player he/she self understands this. |
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Post by snerdley on May 3, 2008 19:58:30 GMT -6
Player, Thank you for the information. Quite thorough in such a short time frame. I have one question for you. Are you on the district's payroll? Macy, I have one question for you. Are you afraid of the truth? I think Player has added a lot to this board as far as factual info. At this point, we don't know if the info is factual or carefully worded conjecture. It also seems the points being debated are not the main points of the lawsuit. I find that interesting. |
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Post by macy on May 3, 2008 19:59:37 GMT -6
Player, Thank you for the information. Quite thorough in such a short time frame. I have one question for you. Are you on the district's payroll? Macy, I have one question for you. Are you afraid of the truth? I think Player has added a lot to this board as far as factual info. jwh Call the dogs off! Please, read my posts. I asked Player a few questions. He/she answered them. As I've stated, more than once, I find Player's posts more credible. And, to answer your question, no... I'm not afraid of the truth. Are you? I think there will be some "truth" coming out in the next few weeks that will be very interesting and eye opening to all of us. Frankly, I find Player's posts on the pipelines very informative and thanked he/she for that. |
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Post by player on May 3, 2008 20:11:29 GMT -6
I also notice that some of your data is coming from a group that is paid by the industry to tell people everything is safe. I admit, that might be a little harshly worded, but there comes a point in 'safety' and 'risk analysis' where it's a judgement call. Their purpose is to get things inside a 'justifiable judgement call' zone. Wouldn't you agree? www.questconsult.com/Is the district going to use their consequence analysis services and redesign the building for location within the PIR? Is the district going to have a professional consequence analysis done by their modeling software and release to the public what the actual consequences would be of an event at the Eola with students present? Will they release and publish their onsite emergency response plans, etc.? Arch: For that reason, I deliberately did not use the data of their actual study, for the Wahsatch site which were not of very much interest to me (different pipeline system) , but focused on just the Santa Barbara guidelines and the DOT summary f/N curves, which are not their creation. The DOT NTSB data is in public record, so we can reconstruct it from scratch if needed. I do agree, that as far as the Wahsatch result goes, unless I see their details, its hard to vouch for it. I'll do some digging and see if I can reconstruct the DOT data to validate. Contrary to popular belief, I do not work for the district, or have any connection with, so I cant comment on whether they are going to do a consequence analysis, or who they will use if they do.  Good questions. Right now, if they (Kinder Morgan/District) change the pipeline segments, I would be ecstatic. ACVs would be even better. A formal consequence analysis may not be a bad idea. Of all the environmental concerns voiced to date, the pipelines are the one area I take seriously, where more study and remediation would really help. Cheers. |
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Post by snerdley on May 3, 2008 20:15:56 GMT -6
Are there any pipeline issues at BB?
why would Kinder Morgan invest money to modify their pipes at AME? wouldn't that set a precedent for them to do so elsewhere?
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Post by macy on May 3, 2008 20:16:43 GMT -6
Player,
I just read your EMF posts more thoroughly. I find this a very debatable topic. No conclusive evidence (I think you posted this) in the US yet other countries seem to be well ahead of us.
I'm not a scientist, take mercy on me. Yet, from what I've learned EMF safety is something that the scientific community seems to disagree on.
I have had many a Doctor tell me that although there is "inconclusive proof" of a correlation between auto immune disease and EMF exposure in the United States, many in the scientific community (especially Sweden and Russia) have performed more conclusive studies that tie EMFs to auto immune disease and cancer clusters.
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Post by friend on May 3, 2008 20:18:25 GMT -6
Player,
What if the SD does none of the things for the pipelines that you think will make it safer? Would you still send your kids there? Also, what do you think of the EMF's at this site?
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Post by player on May 3, 2008 20:19:13 GMT -6
Still waiting to see any reports about how impervious they are to purposeful destruction, ala the SC teen recently arrested for plotting to blow up his school. In D204, we'll keep the fuel onsite.. no need to run the risk of getting caught by your parents having it delivered to your house.  Arch: Deliberate sabotage is a tough thing to quantify and define. Solid security is the best approach. I'll see if I can. Cheers. |
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Post by Arch on May 3, 2008 20:24:39 GMT -6
Still waiting to see any reports about how impervious they are to purposeful destruction, ala the SC teen recently arrested for plotting to blow up his school. In D204, we'll keep the fuel onsite.. no need to run the risk of getting caught by your parents having it delivered to your house. Arch: Deliberate sabotage is a tough thing to quantify and define. Solid security is the best approach. I'll see if I can. Cheers. It's a risk that can never be mitigated because of where they are. Like in 'War Games'... the only winning move is not to play. Don't build near them, no risk from it. |
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Post by friend on May 3, 2008 20:30:35 GMT -6
I am not an environmental specialist. Just a parent who is very concerned about all the environmental issues raised because I have children who will go there. Common sense would tell you between the pipelines, incresed RR traffic, the peaker structure and that huge eletrical sub-station nearby that there is a ton of energy in that particular area. Right?
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Post by player on May 3, 2008 20:55:21 GMT -6
Player, I just read your EMF posts more thoroughly. I find this a very debatable topic. No conclusive evidence (I think you posted this) in the US yet other countries seem to be well ahead of us. I'm not a scientist, take mercy on me. Yet, from what I've learned EMF safety is something that the scientific community seems to disagree on. I have had many a Doctor tell me that although there is "inconclusive proof" of a correlation between auto immune disease and EMF exposure in the United States, many in the scientific community (especially Sweden and Russia) have performed more conclusive studies that tie EMFs to auto immune disease and cancer clusters. macy: EMF is highly debated, but studies that have taken the totality of this data show no perceivable effect. Does this mean EMF poses no danger? Not exactly. For an effect to be beyond reproach, certain conditions have to be met. a) A cause-effect relation has to be established c) A mechanism has to be provided to explain the effect There have been very few studies that actually measure intergated EMF dose from all source (TVs, microwaves, powerlines,...) to establish a cause-effect relationship and a mechanism for any effect. But the problem is the inverse: Can we prove that there is NO ill effect from EMF? Universal negatives are virtually impossible in science, so the controversy lives on. In experiments designed to check cause-effect, subjects actual wear devices that measure all EMF that they are exposed to, not just the conjectured EMF in the vicinity of powerlines. The measurement experiment results, by the way, were negative, but there haven't been enough of them done to be sure. So to date, neither direct cause-effect relationships or mechanisms have been established, hence the controversy. Another unanswered question long term exposure. What if the time period we have been doing experiments is too short to show an effect? Maybe effects only show up after 20 years. This is being investigated by many, especially for cell phones, which make powerlines look like cotton candy as far as the radiation they deliver to the body, as they are so much closer. Some believe they have evidence for 10+ year exposure to cell phone use (over 1 hr/day) causing pretty serious medical conditions. Still under investigation due to lack of good data. I think this is a LOT more credible than powerline data. The main point I made in my EMF study virtually all household devices radiate EMF to some degree or the other, in most cases, much more than powerlines. So IF EMF is an issue, the contribution from powerlines is negligible to the overall EMF the body is exposed to. So if my using my cell phone, watching TV, using a microwave, reading uder flourescent lamps, blogging for hours in front of computer (or doing homework!) exposes me to say 500 mG-hr per day, and the power line exposes me to 10 mG-hr, yeah, I will get 510 mg-hr per day, but the damage is already done whether I am near a powerline or not. So from a risk perspective, if you want to play it safe from an EMF perspective, powerlines are a nit - gadgets and screens will destroy us long before powerlines will. The net effect of powerlines on top of all the other EMF is negligible. One more point: I want to make it clear that direct current does NOT produce EMF. A concern was raised in the NSFOC lawsuit that the cathodic protection for pipelines (a DC current) may cause EMF. Categorically not! Basic physics. Cheers. |
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Post by Arch on May 3, 2008 20:58:02 GMT -6
One more point: I want to make it clear that direct current does NOT produce EMF. A concern was raised in the NSFOC lawsuit that the cathodic protection for pipelines (a DC current) may cause EMF. Categorically not! Basic physics. Is there any risk from a low voltage, high amp current from such a system? |
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