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Post by snerdley on Oct 8, 2008 7:29:12 GMT -6
Another question...What was the real purpose here? Bring people together? Get over it? Let's all just get along? If the purpose was any of the above it failed miserably and offended many. It's usually not a good idea to start out insulting people by mocking them and being condescending. Another thing, trying to shame those who already feel pursecuted certainly doesn't seem to be a good way to help "everybody get along". Church is supposed to inspire. Does anyone feel inspired after listening to that "sermon" (and I use the term loosely)? maybe the skit was a "if the shoe fits" message But the shoe doesn't fit. That's the whole problem. The people in our neighborhood are no different than the people anywhere else around this area. They are hard working people who care about their children's education. Certain members of the District 204 community have in the past and continue now to twist people's legitimate concerns into something evil. And in doing so, they are just plain wrong - and quite frankly I see their actions as evil. |
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Post by twhl on Oct 8, 2008 7:51:12 GMT -6
maybe the skit was a "if the shoe fits" message But the shoe doesn't fit. That's the whole problem. The people in our neighborhood are no different than the people anywhere else around this area. They are hard working people who care about their children's education. Certain members of the District 204 community have in the past and continue now to twist people's legitimate concerns into something evil. And in doing so, they are just plain wrong - and quite frankly I see their actions as evil. Snerdley - you are supposed to sit down and shut up. Everyone else knows better and can think and talk for you - didn't you get that email ? They know how you think and feel. Especially a man of the cloth. (using religion as a banner waiver crosses the line IMO) That sermon (if you could call it that) not only took digs at Naperville, anyone that doesn't accept the 3rd high school debacle as its your fault for thinking its not right, but then he throws in politics too - saying that he apologized he sounded like a democrat. I'm not sure how many more folks you can offend at one sitting. He hit the trifecta and then some. And then he goes on in the same message talking about reaching out in the community, which to me was the only part that belonged in a church. |
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Post by steckdad on Oct 8, 2008 11:32:21 GMT -6
maybe the skit was a "if the shoe fits" message But the shoe doesn't fit. That's the whole problem. The people in our neighborhood are no different than the people anywhere else around this area. They are hard working people who care about their children's education. Certain members of the District 204 community have in the past and continue now to twist people's legitimate concerns into something evil. And in doing so, they are just plain wrong - and quite frankly I see their actions as evil. the shoe doesn't fit to anyone? the pastor is just pulling things out of the air? |
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Post by Arch on Oct 8, 2008 12:06:51 GMT -6
But the shoe doesn't fit. That's the whole problem. The people in our neighborhood are no different than the people anywhere else around this area. They are hard working people who care about their children's education. Certain members of the District 204 community have in the past and continue now to twist people's legitimate concerns into something evil. And in doing so, they are just plain wrong - and quite frankly I see their actions as evil. the shoe doesn't fit to anyone? the pastor is just pulling things out of the air? Dangerous thing to do... How about a skit portraying WV as gang infested. If there's one kid w/ a connection then the shoe fits. It's still wrong to portray the entire school that way, is it not? It's called prejudice and stereotyping. |
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Post by steckdad on Oct 8, 2008 13:30:13 GMT -6
the shoe doesn't fit to anyone? the pastor is just pulling things out of the air? Dangerous thing to do... How about a skit portraying WV as gang infested. If there's one kid w/ a connection then the shoe fits. It's still wrong to portray the entire school that way, is it not? It's called prejudice and stereotyping. the skit did not portray any particular group. thus the shoe fits comment....pastor is pointing out there are some unchristian like behaviors being displayed(in his experience) with the third high school drama and some other scenarios he presented. your example is a bit over the top btw.... |
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Post by Arch on Oct 8, 2008 13:44:33 GMT -6
Dangerous thing to do... How about a skit portraying WV as gang infested. If there's one kid w/ a connection then the shoe fits. It's still wrong to portray the entire school that way, is it not? It's called prejudice and stereotyping. the skit did not portray any particular group. thus the shoe fits comment....pastor is pointing out there are some unchristian like behaviors being displayed(in his experience) with the third high school drama and some other scenarios he presented. your example is a bit over the top btw.... My example does the exact same thing the pastor's does. It paints with a broad brush using stereotypes to a subset of the public... Maybe it's more sad that his example resulted in laughter at the mockery. Further, there are many non-christians out there in the community as well. Did the pastor personally know the people being mocked or did they simply fit into the accepted stereotype? |
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Post by steckdad on Oct 8, 2008 15:25:58 GMT -6
the skit did not portray any particular group. thus the shoe fits comment....pastor is pointing out there are some unchristian like behaviors being displayed(in his experience) with the third high school drama and some other scenarios he presented. your example is a bit over the top btw.... My example does the exact same thing the pastor's does. It paints with a broad brush using stereotypes to a subset of the public... Maybe it's more sad that his example resulted in laughter at the mockery. Further, there are many non-christians out there in the community as well.Did the pastor personally know the people being mocked or did they simply fit into the accepted stereotype? the only concern most pastors have with non-christians is converting them and creating more followers....like the pastor said, he lives in the "church world". as far as your question, I do not know, but my opinion was there was no one being mocked. they were displaying poor behavior and that was the gist of the pastors message...... |
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Post by Arch on Oct 8, 2008 15:40:32 GMT -6
My example does the exact same thing the pastor's does. It paints with a broad brush using stereotypes to a subset of the public... Maybe it's more sad that his example resulted in laughter at the mockery. Further, there are many non-christians out there in the community as well.Did the pastor personally know the people being mocked or did they simply fit into the accepted stereotype? the only concern most pastors have with non-christians is converting them and creating more followers....like the pastor said, he lives in the "church world". as far as your question, I do not know, but my opinion was there was no one being mocked. they were displaying poor behavior and that was the gist of the pastors message...... Your take is that it was entirely a coincidence that it happened to 'mirror' a community in the neighborhood which has residents who had voiced concerns and questions at SB meetings about their proximity to their currently assigned high school asking to remain at that high school.... and portrayed it in such a way where it's full of rudeness and exaggerated complaining... but that's not purposeful 'mocking' of any part of the community? See, the danger with this is endorsing that as 'reality' for the area being mocked. It's a subtle psychological plant, if you will, that 'those people' are nothing but 'rude and snobby and never satisfied'. This is the part that I find dubious about the whole thing. The pastor could have spoken about the topic in a 'homily' fashion without the whole exaggerated acting out... but that's not how it happened. What happened was an active effort by MANY PEOPLE to systematically mock. Obviously we disagree on it, but that's how I see it. If the pastor's goal is to convert more people to being Christians, and this is how they do it, he failed miserably...unless he wants to garner support from people who like it when certain segments of the community are made fun of.... In that case, mission accomplished. |
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we4
Junior
Girls Can't Do What?
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Post by we4 on Oct 8, 2008 15:51:02 GMT -6
as far as your question, I do not know, but my opinion was there was no one being mocked. they were displaying poor behavior and that was the gist of the pastors message...... In a response from Wheatland Salem, I was told that "I believe that the skit did lose something via the podcast. The skit was actually live and if you would have been here, I think you would have been very amused by the extreme behavior of the parents (in body language as well as words) in the skit...in other words, the stereotypes are so exaggerated...nobody behaves like that and we all know it." Everyone can take the explanation as they may. |
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Post by steckdad on Oct 8, 2008 15:52:57 GMT -6
the only concern most pastors have with non-christians is converting them and creating more followers....like the pastor said, he lives in the "church world". as far as your question, I do not know, but my opinion was there was no one being mocked. they were displaying poor behavior and that was the gist of the pastors message...... Your take is that it was entirely a coincidence that it happened to 'mirror' a community in the neighborhood which has residents who had voiced concerns and questions at SB meetings about their proximity to their currently assigned high school asking to remain at that high school.... and portrayed it in such a way where it's full of rudeness and exaggerated complaining... but that's not purposeful 'mocking' of any part of the community? See, the danger with this is endorsing that as 'reality' for the area being mocked. It's a subtle psychological plant, if you will, that 'those people' are nothing but 'rude and snobby and never satisfied'. This is the part that I find dubious about the whole thing. The pastor could have spoken about the topic in a 'homily' fashion without the whole exaggerated acting out... but that's not how it happened. What happened was an active effort by MANY PEOPLE to systematically mock. Obviously we disagree on it, but that's how I see it. If the pastor's goal is to convert more people to being Christians, and this is how they do it, he failed miserably...unless he wants to garner support from people who like it when certain segments of the community are made fun of.... In that case, mission accomplished. maybe you can start a board to criticize local churches and pastors next  all kidding aside, we just look at it differently. hopefully not everyone that attends the church is always on the defense or looking to be offended and can look at themselves and say "I would never act like that" or maybe they saw a little(or a lot) of the skit in themselves and react accordingly.... |
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Post by Arch on Oct 8, 2008 15:56:37 GMT -6
as far as your question, I do not know, but my opinion was there was no one being mocked. they were displaying poor behavior and that was the gist of the pastors message...... In a response from Wheatland Salem, I was told that "I believe that the skit did lose something via the podcast. The skit was actually live and if you would have been here, I think you would have been very amused by the extreme behavior of the parents (in body language as well as words) in the skit...in other words, the stereotypes are so exaggerated...nobody behaves like that and we all know it." Everyone can take the explanation as they may. Out of curiosity, who penned that response? |
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Post by Arch on Oct 8, 2008 15:59:32 GMT -6
Your take is that it was entirely a coincidence that it happened to 'mirror' a community in the neighborhood which has residents who had voiced concerns and questions at SB meetings about their proximity to their currently assigned high school asking to remain at that high school.... and portrayed it in such a way where it's full of rudeness and exaggerated complaining... but that's not purposeful 'mocking' of any part of the community? See, the danger with this is endorsing that as 'reality' for the area being mocked. It's a subtle psychological plant, if you will, that 'those people' are nothing but 'rude and snobby and never satisfied'. This is the part that I find dubious about the whole thing. The pastor could have spoken about the topic in a 'homily' fashion without the whole exaggerated acting out... but that's not how it happened. What happened was an active effort by MANY PEOPLE to systematically mock. Obviously we disagree on it, but that's how I see it. If the pastor's goal is to convert more people to being Christians, and this is how they do it, he failed miserably...unless he wants to garner support from people who like it when certain segments of the community are made fun of.... In that case, mission accomplished. maybe you can start a board to criticize local churches and pastors next all kidding aside, we just look at it differently. hopefully not everyone that attends the church is always on the defense or looking to be offended and can look at themselves and say "I would never act like that" or maybe they saw a little(or a lot) of the skit in themselves and react accordingly.... No need to start a new board. This one works fine enough. Further, I criticize a precise and deliberate action of members that obviously had a lot of participants, thought and direct effort put into it; not 'the church' itself. |
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Post by snerdley on Oct 8, 2008 15:59:35 GMT -6
Dangerous thing to do... How about a skit portraying WV as gang infested. If there's one kid w/ a connection then the shoe fits. It's still wrong to portray the entire school that way, is it not? It's called prejudice and stereotyping. the skit did not portray any particular group. thus the shoe fits comment....pastor is pointing out there are some unchristian like behaviors being displayed(in his experience) with the third high school drama and some other scenarios he presented. your example is a bit over the top btw.... I saw plenty of poor behavior over the years going way back to the meeting at Still regarding whether to build a 7th middle school or a high school. Some people within the WVHS attendance area behaved in a completely inappropriate manner. I was absolutely shocked. One guy stood up and screamed that he wouldn't build another Taj Mahal. I was sitting near these people and they had hate spewing from every pore - and directly squarely at south Naperville. Fast forward to just a few months ago when the lady from Young stood up and called others racists. Quite frankly, I'm tired of this nonsense. It destroys any sense of community and coming together. I think many people from other sections of the district need to take a LONG hard look in the mirror - and leave us alone. |
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Post by doctorwho on Oct 8, 2008 16:13:20 GMT -6
Your take is that it was entirely a coincidence that it happened to 'mirror' a community in the neighborhood which has residents who had voiced concerns and questions at SB meetings about their proximity to their currently assigned high school asking to remain at that high school.... and portrayed it in such a way where it's full of rudeness and exaggerated complaining... but that's not purposeful 'mocking' of any part of the community? See, the danger with this is endorsing that as 'reality' for the area being mocked. It's a subtle psychological plant, if you will, that 'those people' are nothing but 'rude and snobby and never satisfied'. This is the part that I find dubious about the whole thing. The pastor could have spoken about the topic in a 'homily' fashion without the whole exaggerated acting out... but that's not how it happened. What happened was an active effort by MANY PEOPLE to systematically mock. Obviously we disagree on it, but that's how I see it. If the pastor's goal is to convert more people to being Christians, and this is how they do it, he failed miserably...unless he wants to garner support from people who like it when certain segments of the community are made fun of.... In that case, mission accomplished. maybe you can start a board to criticize local churches and pastors next all kidding aside, we just look at it differently. hopefully not everyone that attends the church is always on the defense or looking to be offended and can look at themselves and say "I would never act like that" or maybe they saw a little(or a lot) of the skit in themselves and react accordingly.... I don't think anyone is above critcism or praise do you ? Especially when they step outside what one expects at church. As I said before I do not expect my pastor to speak openly about politics of any kind- 1. I'm not there for that, 2. separation of church and state is important. When someone tells me that our school site was the 'will of God' as happened here I find it obnoxiously wrong -- when a pastor starts deciding how people should react to specifics on a 3rd HS site - I question who exactly these coffees were with that passed along this issue. maybe it's just me -- I was offended once by my church when I was younger and raised the issue. I sat thru a 20 minute sermon telling me how disrespectful it was that teenagers wore jeans to chruch. I was hurt - as I volunteered at the church, was part of scouts etc. -- So I went to see the pastor and asked him if it was more important what pants one had on, or the fact that someone was there as part of their faith, while other well dressed people never attended ? We had a long discussion - and a very good one I thought. We spoke often for years after that -- sorry I do not give a pass because of who they are...however I do respect their devotion...that's not the part that concerns me. |
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Post by twhl on Oct 8, 2008 18:20:22 GMT -6
as far as your question, I do not know, but my opinion was there was no one being mocked. they were displaying poor behavior and that was the gist of the pastors message...... In a response from Wheatland Salem, I was told that "I believe that the skit did lose something via the podcast. The skit was actually live and if you would have been here, I think you would have been very amused by the extreme behavior of the parents (in body language as well as words) in the skit...in other words, the stereotypes are so exaggerated...nobody behaves like that and we all know it." Everyone can take the explanation as they may. The skit as for what it was could have been amusing - its the rhetoric afterward that was out of place no matter what the "intended message" which I'm still struggling with. |
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all kidding aside, we just look at it differently. hopefully not everyone that attends the church is always on the defense or looking to be offended and can look at themselves and say "I would never act like that" or maybe they saw a little(or a lot) of the skit in themselves and react accordingly....
