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Post by twhl on Jan 23, 2009 10:28:48 GMT -6
I don't know why but this caused the radar antennas to perk up. Is the timing for the school opening and the teachers union contract expiration dates are ironically at the same time coincidence ? Curious but what if any link can the two have ?? Wanted to post to see if anyone might have any ideas. I just keep thinking there is something there but not able to put my finger on it.  I also find M2's comment about what they've learned over the years. Sounds like a sit down and shut up - along with we really do want your comments even if we have already decided what we are going to do in executive session. And here I though that only applied to the tax payers, not our facultyDist. 204 teacher contract talks off to quiet star « Thread Started Today at 5:11am » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=266453&src=76Dist. 204 teacher contract talks off to quiet start By Justin Kmitch | Daily Herald 1/22/2009 Contract talks between the Indian Prairie Unit District 204 school board and its teachers union have begun, with seven months remaining on the existing pact. The current three-year deal, approved in 2006 during what were described as "frank" negotiations, expires Aug. 25. Neither board President Mark Metzger nor Indian Prairie Education Association President Val Dranias would comment on specifics of the negotiations. "We're negotiating a contract and there's nothing magic or special about it," Metzger said Thursday. "But over the years we've learned that everyone wants their say in it, so we've decided it is best to limit conversations to only the people at the bargaining table."Dranias also is tight-lipped, declining to discuss the union's bargaining position. "At the moment, we will not be talking about contract negotiations," Dranias said Wednesday. "Yes, they started and we will let everyone know what the particulars are once we've reached an agreement." The current contract, representing 1,811 teachers in 29 schools, provided raises of 4.4 percent in 2006, 4.2 percent in 2007 and 3.9 percent in 2008. Under the agreement, the starting salary for a teacher with a bachelor's degree and no experience is $39,225. A teacher with a master's degree plus 60 hours of additional college credit and 23 years experience now makes $95,796. The district also is negotiating with its support staff. That group's three-year deal expires in April and included a 5.15 percent increase in salary and benefits for 2006-07, a 4.11 percent increase for 2007-08 and a 4.02 percent increase for 2008-09.
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Post by researching on Jan 23, 2009 10:33:54 GMT -6
More ego and blind arrogance from Metzger. What a surprise!
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Post by doctorwho on Jan 23, 2009 10:34:44 GMT -6
I don't know why but this caused the radar antennas to perk up. Is the timing for the school opening and the teachers union contract expiration dates are ironically at the same time coincidence ? Curious but what if any link can the two have ?? Wanted to post to see if anyone might have any ideas. I just keep thinking there is something there but not able to put my finger on it. I also find M2's comment about what they've learned over the years. Sounds like a sit down and shut up - along with we really do want your comments even if we have already decided what we are going to do in executive session. And here I though that only applied to the tax payers, not our facultyDist. 204 teacher contract talks off to quiet star « Thread Started Today at 5:11am » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=266453&src=76Dist. 204 teacher contract talks off to quiet start By Justin Kmitch | Daily Herald 1/22/2009 Contract talks between the Indian Prairie Unit District 204 school board and its teachers union have begun, with seven months remaining on the existing pact. The current three-year deal, approved in 2006 during what were described as "frank" negotiations, expires Aug. 25. Neither board President Mark Metzger nor Indian Prairie Education Association President Val Dranias would comment on specifics of the negotiations. "We're negotiating a contract and there's nothing magic or special about it," Metzger said Thursday. "But over the years we've learned that everyone wants their say in it, so we've decided it is best to limit conversations to only the people at the bargaining table."Dranias also is tight-lipped, declining to discuss the union's bargaining position. "At the moment, we will not be talking about contract negotiations," Dranias said Wednesday. "Yes, they started and we will let everyone know what the particulars are once we've reached an agreement." The current contract, representing 1,811 teachers in 29 schools, provided raises of 4.4 percent in 2006, 4.2 percent in 2007 and 3.9 percent in 2008. Under the agreement, the starting salary for a teacher with a bachelor's degree and no experience is $39,225. A teacher with a master's degree plus 60 hours of additional college credit and 23 years experience now makes $95,796. The district also is negotiating with its support staff. That group's three-year deal expires in April and included a 5.15 percent increase in salary and benefits for 2006-07, a 4.11 percent increase for 2007-08 and a 4.02 percent increase for 2008-09. stay tuned is my guess on this one-- as I believe from those I speak with - they likely have the same opinion of some of the proceedings here as many of us. Remember many are residents of 204 also. The difference is ( now that the SD already has our ref $) - is they have a position from which they do not necessarily have to take what they are told to take , like it or not. This will be very interesting and I will be watching closely - hopefully all residents are. |
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Post by sam2 on Jan 23, 2009 10:58:40 GMT -6
More ego and blind arrogance from Metzger. What a surprise! I never imagined I would find myself defending Mr. Metzger, but, as someone with experience negotiating labor contracts, I believe he is correct. Everyone wants a say, but only a few are privy to what is actually going on and you simply cannot negotiate in a public forum. The success of the entire process depends upon mutual confidentiality. That said, certainly the board and admin should set the parameters and approve any offers made or accepted. But the actual process needs to be conducted in private. In my experience, the differences between initial discussions and final agreements is often quite significant, which is another reason not to have widespread dissemination of specifics during the process. Where I would like to see some transparency is with respect to how easily teachers can change districts and what it might cost them in terms of seniority, tenure benefits and pay. Some time ago, during 203 negotiations, there was debate about the danger of teachers leaving if the pay levels became disparate with other districts. At the time, someone purporting to be a teacher wrote a letter to the editor claiming that after perhaps 10 years within a district, it was rarely beneficial for a teacher to leave one district for another. That's always been the explanation for setting pay rates -- to keep our teachers. I've always wondered if there was a lot of truth to what the letter writer stated. Does anyone know? In a similar vein, I know more than a few young teachers, with masters degrees from very good schools who work in the private school system because they cannot find positions in the public system. There is always talk of teacher shortages, but....again, I'd like some clarity. I would expect there are shortages in some specialties, and perhaps a surplus in others.... Eventually, both sides will begin to sell their positions to the public through press releases, etc and I'd like to have some factual information before that time Can anyone help set me straight? Thanks |
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Post by twhl on Jan 23, 2009 11:41:36 GMT -6
What if it went something like this:
* we want a 3rd high school because the classes are too big even though it isn't needed, build us 1
* don't think the voters will approve it
* if you don't get us one by the time the labor contract expires, we will strike
* I'll make sure it gets passed and built no matter what it takes
.......and don't you dare start reporting that the District failed NCLB because of the teachers. The clock is ticking, better get a move on it.
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Post by Arch on Jan 23, 2009 11:56:04 GMT -6
I wonder if there will be hazard pay provisions for MV since it's inside the PIR for the pipes. Georgetown would take some negotiating because I believe it's 'just outside' the PIR per the formula...so the District has the upper hand on that one specifically.
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Post by southsidesignmaker on Jan 23, 2009 12:16:48 GMT -6
My head hurts trying to conger up more possible theories, I only wish I had more to add regarding sam2's concerns. As soon as the tylenol head ache medication kicks in I will research further. Or maybe it is time for the real elixir after all it is Friday!
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Post by Arch on Jan 23, 2009 12:25:56 GMT -6
Nothing heard or seen prior to ink hitting the paper in the form of signatures from both sides matters...as everything is subject to change.
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Post by rew on Jan 23, 2009 13:14:23 GMT -6
At ten years most districts grant tenure. Tenure secures your job. I don't know if it triggers any additional pension benefits etc. But I would think a teacher might think twice before abandoning the kind of job security that represents.
Having said that, tenure was a concept devised at the college level, to protect professors who expressed opinions, published papers that were opposed th their colleges administration. "You can't get fired for disagreeing with your boss". It's role in the public schools at this level is widely debated.
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Post by Arch on Jan 23, 2009 13:21:56 GMT -6
At ten years most districts grant tenure. Tenure secures your job. I don't know if it triggers any additional pension benefits etc. But I would think a teacher might think twice before abandoning the kind of job security that represents. Having said that, tenure was a concept devised at the college level, to protect professors who expressed opinions, published papers that were opposed th their colleges administration. "You can't get fired for disagreeing with your boss". It's role in the public schools at this level is widely debated. If 204 has tenure, perhaps that is part of the problem of why some teachers this year basically are telling their students that it's their job to teach themselves...and it's not their job (the teacher's) to make sure the students 'get the material'.... Or why a couple start off their honors classes virtually every day with a condescending statement about how the class is "dumb" or "clueless" or how the students "don't know anything"... Whatever the reason, there's a cancerous attitude at the WVGold campus this year amongst several unlike anything I've seen the 10 years prior in any grade level. Burnout offers another explanation... |
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Post by researching on Jan 23, 2009 13:22:47 GMT -6
More ego and blind arrogance from Metzger. What a surprise! I never imagined I would find myself defending Mr. Metzger, but, as someone with experience negotiating labor contracts, I believe he is correct. In relation to this instance, I do back up limiting negotiations to those at the table. I was simply commenting on Mr. Metzger's lack of tact. If you have ever been on the receiving end of one of M2's biting emails you understand what I mean. He tends to come across as an angry, arrogant know-it-all no matter how respectful your email is. As for further weighing in on the teacher contracts, I leave it up to those who know what they are talking about. I don't know anything about this subject. ;D Thanks for the post Sam2. You bring up some excellent questions and I appreciate your perspective on contract negotiations. |
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Post by researching on Jan 23, 2009 13:29:27 GMT -6
At ten years most districts grant tenure. Tenure secures your job. I don't know if it triggers any additional pension benefits etc. But I would think a teacher might think twice before abandoning the kind of job security that represents. Having said that, tenure was a concept devised at the college level, to protect professors who expressed opinions, published papers that were opposed th their colleges administration. "You can't get fired for disagreeing with your boss". It's role in the public schools at this level is widely debated. If 204 has tenure, perhaps that is part of the problem of why some teachers this year basically are telling their students that it's their job to teach themselves...and it's not their job (the teacher's) to make sure the students 'get the material'.... Or why a couple start off their honors classes virtually every day with a condescending statement about how the class is "dumb" or "clueless" or how the students "don't know anything"... Whatever the reason, there's a cancerous attitude at the WVGold campus this year amongst several unlike anything I've seen the 10 years prior in any grade level. Burnout offers another explanation... This could also be attributed to the idea that many of the high school level teachers don't know for sure what high school they will be teaching at next fall. It is my understanding (and I could be wrong) that they will be shifting teachers between NV and WV to cover the teachers that are being moved to MV. I was told that they won't know for sure where things stand in that department until after spring break. I would imagine that it is a very unstable environment to work in. I agree with Doc, this will be VERY interesting to watch. |
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Post by doctorwho on Jan 23, 2009 13:36:07 GMT -6
My head hurts trying to conger up more possible theories, I only wish I had more to add regarding sam2's concerns. As soon as the tylenol head ache medication kicks in I will research further. Or maybe it is time for the real elixir after all it is Friday! The only thing I know off the top of my head to add to Sam's is we hired a lot less teachers than originally proposed before ADK was announced - so I am sure opportunities were down - and with construction at a virtual halt - schools are not growing ay anywhere near the pace predicted in places like Oswwego( where they have a school already sitting empty) and Yorkville etc. |
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Post by doctorwho on Jan 23, 2009 13:38:15 GMT -6
What if it went something like this: * we want a 3rd high school because the classes are too big even though it isn't needed, build us 1 * don't think the voters will approve it * if you don't get us one by the time the labor contract expires, we will strike * I'll make sure it gets passed and built no matter what it takes .......and don't you dare start reporting that the District failed NCLB because of the teachers. The clock is ticking, better get a move on it. were / are class sizes out of line with surrounding areas ? I do believe the current teacher contract limited class size to 28. |
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Post by doctorwho on Jan 23, 2009 14:39:05 GMT -6
What if it went something like this: * we want a 3rd high school because the classes are too big even though it isn't needed, build us 1 * don't think the voters will approve it * if you don't get us one by the time the labor contract expires, we will strike * I'll make sure it gets passed and built no matter what it takes .......and don't you dare start reporting that the District failed NCLB because of the teachers. The clock is ticking, better get a move on it. were / are class sizes out of line with surrounding areas ? I do believe the current teacher contract limited class size to 28. OK - using Sun Times E2008 school site: IPSD 204 pupil/student ratio ES 19.1 HS 17.1 avg class size WV 21.9 NV 23.8 dist 22.9 Naper 203 pupil / student ratio ES 19.2 HS 19.1 avg class size Central 19.3 North 22.9 Dist 22.6 Oswego 308 pupil / student ration Es 20.8 HS 18.1 avg class size OE 21.7 Dist 22.7 Plainfield 202 Pupil / student ratio ES 20.0 HS 19.1 avg class size PN 31.0 PS 25.0 Pl Cent 20.0 dist 26.6 ------------------------------------------------------------- Elementary ( blue = highest) red = lowest DISTS - 203 - 204 202 Kind. 21.0 21.3 20.11st 24.6 24.0 21.72nd 25.2 23.6 20.33rd 24.4 25.3 22.84th 24.9 25.7 22.65th 24.9 26.1 22.7question - is their a reason our pupil/satudent rations are low yet especially in ES we have some of the largest class sizes ? |
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I also find M2's comment about what they've learned over the years. Sounds like a sit down and shut up - along with we really do want your comments even if we have already decided what we are going to do in executive session. And here I though that only applied to the tax payers, not our faculty
