SB Options for BB now

[doctorwho]

harry said:

doctorwho said:

I am not sure what campaign you are talking about -- there was a slick one that used all kinds of fear mongering but it did not belong to the SB.... I will look as I have a copy of the Freelance presentations that were done...I believe it was mid 9000's but I don't want to be off 50 or so and be accused of being slick. As far as showing the range - sorry but yes it was shown.

The SB's fear campaign included students at the HS level as 10400

You obviously remember the number since you asked for the low end of the range

See.....their smear campaign DID work

the number was 9700, you have to give someone a second to look things up to be sure -- and you know what - you lend such little credibility to your posts when you talk such nonsense and then refuse to back anything up with facts ---

go ahead rant on -- it's got a lot of entertainment value, but little else

[doctorwho]

harry said:

doctorwho said:

typical - spew out numbers and then provide zero back up -- must be nice to be able to do that.

I seem to remember the optimal number of students for the 2 high schools was 8400 - and that counted both freshman centers -- we are losing one center to become a middle school -- (by your count 1200 - but that is too high for the optimal number) -

for once- if you want more data - YOU can look it up.

You asked for more data not I sir.

The numbers don't jive,,,that is your issue

Um No, I aksed you where you got your capacity numbers from -- heck I'll say the capacity is 2000 per school -- anyone canmake up numbers - you actually have to have something to support where they come from for anyone to take them as anything but ramblings


thread will likely be closed due to this nonsense. You can disagree with things like many do here- and that's fine, just support where you get your numbers.

[harry]

doctorwho said:

harry said:

The SB's fear campaign included students at the HS level as 10400

You obviously remember the number since you asked for the low end of the range

See.....their smear campaign DID work

the number was 9700, you have to give someone a second to look things up to be sure -- and you know what - you lend such little credibility to your posts when you talk such nonsense and then refuse to back anything up with facts ---

go ahead rant on -- it's got a lot of entertainment value, but little else

Likewise on the entertainment value....I love cursoring down past your verbose enumerations

Please post the link to the 9700

[harry]

doctorwho said:

harry said:

You asked for more data not I sir.

The numbers don't jive,,,that is your issue

Um No, I aksed you where you got your capacity numbers from -- heck I'll say the capacity is 2000 per school -- anyone canmake up numbers - you actually have to have something to support where they come from for anyone to take them as anything but ramblings


thread will likely be closed due to this nonsense. You can disagree with things like many do here- and that's fine, just support where you get your numbers.

I don't feel the need to support anything as the referendum was a farce,,proven by your vindictiveness

Defend what you own,,,I have no need to

[doctorwho]

harry said:

doctorwho said:

the number was 9700, you have to give someone a second to look things up to be sure -- and you know what - you lend such little credibility to your posts when you talk such nonsense and then refuse to back anything up with facts ---

go ahead rant on -- it's got a lot of entertainment value, but little else

Likewise on the entertainment value....I love cursoring down past your verbose enumerations

Please post the link to the 9700

to quote you - you get the number. I have it on a Freelance presentation - go back and dig thru the history threads - it is likely there.

not sure how one gets a verbose enumeration - since one is literary and one is a numerical listing -- quite the accomplishment I guess.

[doctorwho]

harry said:

doctorwho said:

Um No, I aksed you where you got your capacity numbers from -- heck I'll say the capacity is 2000 per school -- anyone canmake up numbers - you actually have to have something to support where they come from for anyone to take them as anything but ramblings


thread will likely be closed due to this nonsense. You can disagree with things like many do here- and that's fine, just support where you get your numbers.

I don't feel the need to support anything as the referendum was a farce,,proven by your vindictiveness

Defend what you own,,,I have no need to

because you own nothing but conjecture -- I am sure you don't like to be called on it, but everyone here can make their points and do, most however actually back up what they say with actual facts.

there is no vindictiveness - just a desire to not have mistruths and conjecture passed off as anything but what it is - your opinion.
You are welcome to your opinion - if you think the referendum was a farce - that is your right -- but don't try and sell it to someone else unless you can back up your statements

[doctorwho]

capacity note:

From an email just sent out to those that subscribe to the IPSD.org site...

Questions About High School Capacity

There are several variations of misinformation about the capacity of our high schools. One group
has misinterpreted the district's Illinois State Board of Education's Construction Grant
Application Worksheet to imply that the district’s high school capacity is larger than it really
is. Permit the district to refute the two most common errors being spread through the district.

In 1996-97, Waubonsie Valley housed all of the district's high school students the year before
Neuqua Valley opened with freshmen and sophomores. During this year, Waubonsie Valley housed
almost 3,600 students because we had no other place for them. Classes were held in offices,
computer labs, the auditorium, LMC and cafeteria. Students had lunch during 6 of the 8 periods.
The hallways were overcrowded, a third of the lockers were shared, and class sizes grew to 34
students and above.

We did what we had to do for one year because relief was in sight. It was not a good situation,
as any of the parents, teachers, and students at that time can attest. Ask them. It would be
detrimental to the students to do that for an extended period of time.

Neuqua Valley had the same experience, but at a slightly less problematic level in 2002-03, the
year before the freshman campus opened. Classes were held in the auditorium, a foyer, and the
auditorium’s practice space. Students also attended classes held in the cafeteria, LMC, computer
labs, and conference rooms. Again, class sizes rose above our desired levels. Ask those parents,
teachers, and students what the experience was like.

A variation of the misinformation on capacity is based on the distribution of part of the
district's application for school construction grants. The district is required to file this
application if it wants to be considered for these grants, which are currently unfunded at the
state level.

The application requires several steps and is described in the 23 Ill. Admin. Code 151.50. The
steps involve identifying by type every available space, assigning a square feet per student
load factor for the type of space, measuring in square feet, and dividing by the load factor.
This produces an "available capacity." This is where the document being cited by some people
ends. (An appropriate analogy is filling out only the first page of your tax return.)

However, the state requires us to go one step further and fill out one more form. The state
recognizes that schools cannot and should not operate at a theoretical maximum capacity.
Therefore, the state requires us to apply a utilization factor of 80 percent to arrive at an
estimate of a school's "adjusted available capacity."

This adjusted available capacity reflects actual student selection of classes, appropriate class
sizes, and real class schedules. This is the capacity used to determine if we have space for
students and how many students are considered "unhoused" by the state. If funds are available,
the state bases school construction grants on the number of "unhoused" students.

We have posted the district's Construction Grant Application Worksheet online at
www.ipsd.org/Uploads/news_10612_1.pdf .According to the Illinois State Board of
Education's requirements, the combined adjusted available capacity of Neuqua Valley and
Waubonsie Valley is 7,200 students. However, the district operates more efficiently than the
state expects and is utilizing a capacity of 8,400 students.

We urge everyone to look logically at the arguments being made to determine if there is
sufficient evidence to support them. If you find that the school district has not done that,
please contact us. The district has a wealth of supporting documentation posted online at
www.ipsd.org .

Howard Crouse
Superintendent

[harry]

doctorwho said:

harry said:

Likewise on the entertainment value....I love cursoring down past your verbose enumerations

Please post the link to the 9700

to quote you - you get the number. I have it on a Freelance presentation - go back and dig thru the history threads - it is likely there.

not sure how one gets a verbose enumeration - since one is literary and one is a numerical listing -- quite the accomplishment I guess.

Apparently my numbers are correct or you would correct me, nuff said

Let me esplain it in more simple terms

your enumerations are verbose

not quite an accomplishment,,,,,I know.

[proschool]

We went through the enrollment numbers before the last referendum and it was decided to go ahead and build a school.

The only question we have now is where to build the new school.

[doctorwho]

harry said:

doctorwho said:

to quote you - you get the number. I have it on a Freelance presentation - go back and dig thru the history threads - it is likely there.

not sure how one gets a verbose enumeration - since one is literary and one is a numerical listing -- quite the accomplishment I guess.

Apparently my numbers are correct or you would correct me, nuff said

Let me esplain it in more simple terms

your enumerations are verbose

not quite an accomplishment,,,,,I know.

I have copied the capacity numbers from IPSD - it is 8400 and that is running at 93% of capacity. NO scholl functions at capacity.

sorry it takes longer to actually look stuff up - than to make it up

[harry]

doctorwho said:

capacity note:

From an email just sent out to those that subscribe to the IPSD.org site...

Questions About High School Capacity

There are several variations of misinformation about the capacity of our high schools. One group
has misinterpreted the district's Illinois State Board of Education's Construction Grant
Application Worksheet to imply that the district’s high school capacity is larger than it really
is. Permit the district to refute the two most common errors being spread through the district.

In 1996-97, Waubonsie Valley housed all of the district's high school students the year before
Neuqua Valley opened with freshmen and sophomores. During this year, Waubonsie Valley housed
almost 3,600 students because we had no other place for them. Classes were held in offices,
computer labs, the auditorium, LMC and cafeteria. Students had lunch during 6 of the 8 periods.
The hallways were overcrowded, a third of the lockers were shared, and class sizes grew to 34
students and above.

We did what we had to do for one year because relief was in sight. It was not a good situation,
as any of the parents, teachers, and students at that time can attest. Ask them. It would be
detrimental to the students to do that for an extended period of time.

Neuqua Valley had the same experience, but at a slightly less problematic level in 2002-03, the
year before the freshman campus opened. Classes were held in the auditorium, a foyer, and the
auditorium’s practice space. Students also attended classes held in the cafeteria, LMC, computer
labs, and conference rooms. Again, class sizes rose above our desired levels. Ask those parents,
teachers, and students what the experience was like.

A variation of the misinformation on capacity is based on the distribution of part of the
district's application for school construction grants. The district is required to file this
application if it wants to be considered for these grants, which are currently unfunded at the
state level.

The application requires several steps and is described in the 23 Ill. Admin. Code 151.50. The
steps involve identifying by type every available space, assigning a square feet per student
load factor for the type of space, measuring in square feet, and dividing by the load factor.
This produces an "available capacity." This is where the document being cited by some people
ends. (An appropriate analogy is filling out only the first page of your tax return.)

However, the state requires us to go one step further and fill out one more form. The state
recognizes that schools cannot and should not operate at a theoretical maximum capacity.
Therefore, the state requires us to apply a utilization factor of 80 percent to arrive at an
estimate of a school's "adjusted available capacity."

This adjusted available capacity reflects actual student selection of classes, appropriate class
sizes, and real class schedules. This is the capacity used to determine if we have space for
students and how many students are considered "unhoused" by the state. If funds are available,
the state bases school construction grants on the number of "unhoused" students.

We have posted the district's Construction Grant Application Worksheet online at
www.ipsd.org/Uploads/news_10612_1.pdf .According to the Illinois State Board of
Education's requirements, the combined adjusted available capacity of Neuqua Valley and
Waubonsie Valley is 7,200 students. However, the district operates more efficiently than the
state expects and is utilizing a capacity of 8,400 students.

We urge everyone to look logically at the arguments being made to determine if there is
sufficient evidence to support them. If you find that the school district has not done that,
please contact us. The district has a wealth of supporting documentation posted online at
www.ipsd.org .

Howard Crouse
Superintendent

More old FUD!!

I knew you could do it Doc!!! This document is old...does it include numbers for the freshmen campuses or addtl seats for Frontier

In the case of the State 7200 vs. our 8400

The difference is 1200 students...Then why are we building a 3000 seat HS Do Share

If the numbers do not include the Freshmen campuses,,,then it proves we don't need a 3rd HS

[harry]

doctorwho said:

harry said:

Apparently my numbers are correct or you would correct me, nuff said

Let me esplain it in more simple terms

your enumerations are verbose

not quite an accomplishment,,,,,I know.

I have copied the capacity numbers from IPSD - it is 8400 and that is running at 93% of capacity. NO scholl functions at capacity.

sorry it takes longer to actually look stuff up - than to make it up

OURs DO!!!!!!!!!! ;D

[harry]

proschool said:

We went through the enrollment numbers before the last referendum and it was decided to go ahead and build a school.

The only question we have now is where to build the new school.

Wrong

if we were lied to ...it's a brand new ball game

[dpc]

harry said:

doctorwho said:

I am not sure what campaign you are talking about -- there was a slick one that used all kinds of fear mongering but it did not belong to the SB.... I will look as I have a copy of the Freelance presentations that were done...I believe it was mid 9000's but I don't want to be off 50 or so and be accused of being slick. As far as showing the range - sorry but yes it was shown.

The SB's fear campaign included students at the HS level as 10400

You obviously remember the number since you asked for the low end of the range

See.....their smear campaign DID work

From the district website on the 3rd HS:

Superintendent's Message
As the district faces overcrowding in its middle and high schools, the Board of Education continues to discuss the space challenge and works to solve the problem.

The board began this process by studying enrollment projections. They concluded that the district expects to see an enrollment range of 7,300 to 8,000 students at the middle school level and 9,700 to 10,400 at the high school level over the next 10 years.
I also posted other verbiage from the 204 the kids marketing materials in which they discuss the ramifications of not passing the ref (i.e, two 5000+ high schools).


Regardless of which end of the range you use, IMO, we will never see those numbers in the district.

[doctorwho]

dpc said:

harry said:

The SB's fear campaign included students at the HS level as 10400

You obviously remember the number since you asked for the low end of the range

See.....their smear campaign DID work

From the district website on the 3rd HS:

Superintendent's Message
As the district faces overcrowding in its middle and high schools, the Board of Education continues to discuss the space challenge and works to solve the problem.

The board began this process by studying enrollment projections. They concluded that the district expects to see an enrollment range of 7,300 to 8,000 students at the middle school level and 9,700 to 10,400 at the high school level over the next 10 years.
I also posted other verbiage from the 204 the kids marketing materials in which they discuss the ramifications of not passing the ref (i.e, two 5000+ high schools).


Regardless of which end of the range you use, IMO, we will never see those numbers in the district.

so there is that 9700 number that didn't exist in the smear campaign -- thank you dpc for posting. Nothing was being hidden and yes the 9700 appears to be a stretch by a few hundred - but at least let's discuss the facts as they were presented -