R SCHOOLS R OVERCROWDED! HOW DO WE FIX 2DAY?

[gatormom]

harry said:

I am sorry but it is of utmost importance for the SB to make sure that each and every district 204 student gets the best education possible, and not to get a substandard one for 'a few years while we figure it out.' As it sits, there will not be hs or ms relief for at least 3 years as the SB cannot blank or get off of the pot.

How does that help the current situation???

2. My opinion,.,,,,,,we don't need a 3rd hs. Numbers are numbers.

So let's do the best with what we have and stop wasting time on an unnecessary object.

eta Why are we not expending resources to STOP muddling thru anything less than satisfactory??? I just don't get the C- attitude.

The schools work with the resources they have and in Scullen's case, portables. I have heard several parents who have children at Scullen say, yes overcrowded, making the best of it, and bless the teachers, the kids don't know any better.

Numbers are numbers, that is very funny coming from someone who has yet to quote the yes vote percentage on the referendum correctly.

It is kind of hard to discuss this with you. You are demanding solutions for a problem you don't believe exists. Is there a point to this other than to say that Metea is not needed?

[harry]

gatormom said:

harry said:

I am sorry but it is of utmost importance for the SB to make sure that each and every district 204 student gets the best education possible, and not to get a substandard one for 'a few years while we figure it out.' As it sits, there will not be hs or ms relief for at least 3 years as the SB cannot blank or get off of the pot.

How does that help the current situation???

2. My opinion,.,,,,,,we don't need a 3rd hs. Numbers are numbers.

So let's do the best with what we have and stop wasting time on an unnecessary object.

eta Why are we not expending resources to STOP muddling thru anything less than satisfactory??? I just don't get the C- attitude.

The schools work with the resources they have and in Scullen's case, portables. I have heard several parents who have children at Scullen say, yes overcrowded, making the best of it, and bless the teachers, the kids don't know any better.

Numbers are numbers, that is very funny coming from someone who has yet to quote the yes vote percentage on the referendum correctly.

It is kind of hard to discuss this with you. You are demanding solutions for a problem you don't believe exists. Is there a point to this other than to say that Metea is not needed?

Work with resources that we have? That is the seminal point. If we need more resources today, why aren't we demanding them today instead of copping the attitude of 'well, let's throw money at the problem and just build new.'

A 3000 seat hs is not needed now. Do some portables and additions need to be addressed??? Yes. That is my question to you. How do you fix the CURRENT TODAY problem and not alleged and not proven problem in 2011???

And, if the attitude of 'the kids don't know any better' is how you posture, than my point of not needing a 3rd hs is a slam dunk, cause the kids 'don't know any better',,,,so I ask the board again....WHY do we need a 3rd hs if the kids, parents and teachers think the current situation is ok, cause if they felt different, they would do something IMMEDIATELY about it.

[gatormom]

Okay harry, by your reasoning there is no overcrowding because, yawn, the people aren't rioting in the streets. So we just use portables, the district is doing that; and rearrange areas not used for classrooms and use them for classrooms, the district is doing that too.

The overcrowding that I believe will be caused by the all-day K should not be addresed using your logic because it is alleged and not proven.

Now as far as Metea goes, we don't need to discuss whether it is needed or not because it will be built, where and when are questions we would all like answered.

[doctorwho]

harry said:

gatormom said:

The schools work with the resources they have and in Scullen's case, portables. I have heard several parents who have children at Scullen say, yes overcrowded, making the best of it, and bless the teachers, the kids don't know any better.

Numbers are numbers, that is very funny coming from someone who has yet to quote the yes vote percentage on the referendum correctly.

It is kind of hard to discuss this with you. You are demanding solutions for a problem you don't believe exists. Is there a point to this other than to say that Metea is not needed?

Work with resources that we have? That is the seminal point. If we need more resources today, why aren't we demanding them today instead of copping the attitude of 'well, let's throw money at the problem and just build new.'

A 3000 seat hs is not needed now. Do some portables and additions need to be addressed??? Yes. That is my question to you. How do you fix the CURRENT TODAY problem and not alleged and not proven problem in 2011???

And, if the attitude of 'the kids don't know any better' is how you posture, than my point of not needing a 3rd hs is a slam dunk, cause the kids 'don't know any better',,,,so I ask the board again....WHY do we need a 3rd hs if the kids, parents and teachers think the current situation is ok, cause if they felt different, they would do something IMMEDIATELY about it.

See that's the problem, no one thinks it's OK -- show me where people are saying that. At Scullen they are getting by waiting for relief - just as many of us have done over the past 20 years waiting for new schools or additions. That does not make it acceptable, but this is not a snap one's fingers and it is fixed issue. And yes, numbers are numbers , and the numbers of kids in the system TODAY, show the need for the 3rd high school, Bob and others have printed them ad nauseum, but for some reason you choose to ignore them.

Just as GM puts it, people are not rioting in the streets, does not mean the problem does not exist. If that viewpoint was a fact - then there are no homeless in this country / there is no financial crisis today / there is no health care crisis etc. just because there aren't people storming the White House / City Hall or the Howie Crouse center.

Yes, the current problem does need addressing, if the long term problem will not be fixed. HOWEVER, if a 3rd HS is going to be build, you do not throw money out there short term ( many more portables) that will not be needed when the HS opens. The life cycle of portables is 5 years - this has been stated also. So if the new HS is built in 2 - we wasted 3 years of finances.

[harry]

gatormom said:

Okay harry, by your reasoning there is no overcrowding because, yawn, the people aren't rioting in the streets. So we just use portables, the district is doing that; and rearrange areas not used for classrooms and use them for classrooms, the district is doing that too.

The overcrowding that I believe will be caused by the all-day K should not be addresed using your logic because it is alleged and not proven.

Now as far as Metea goes, we don't need to discuss whether it is needed or not because it will be built, where and when are questions we would all like answered.

A few portables and a few made over rooms do not an
overcrowded district make.

Ask yourself the question....why oh why did the SD jump to take on all day K?

Is it to fill the empty seats we will have if we build a 3rd hs and not hit the numbers??? Afterall, we haven't hit them since the 2005 referendum failed.

I wouldn't count Metea as built as new referendums REVERSING a prior referendum can happen.

Afterall in 2006 we passed a ref and 30days b4 2008, we still aren't even close to purchasing land let alone building.

It doesn't make any difference,,,the teachers, parents and students are thriving and well in their current situations....The SB can take their time and not have complete build out until 2015 and everyone will still be ok.

[harry]

doctorwho said:

harry said:

Work with resources that we have? That is the seminal point. If we need more resources today, why aren't we demanding them today instead of copping the attitude of 'well, let's throw money at the problem and just build new.'

A 3000 seat hs is not needed now. Do some portables and additions need to be addressed??? Yes. That is my question to you. How do you fix the CURRENT TODAY problem and not alleged and not proven problem in 2011???

And, if the attitude of 'the kids don't know any better' is how you posture, than my point of not needing a 3rd hs is a slam dunk, cause the kids 'don't know any better',,,,so I ask the board again....WHY do we need a 3rd hs if the kids, parents and teachers think the current situation is ok, cause if they felt different, they would do something IMMEDIATELY about it.

See that's the problem, no one thinks it's OK -- show me where people are saying that. At Scullen they are getting by waiting for relief - just as many of us have done over the past 20 years waiting for new schools or additions. That does not make it acceptable, but this is not a snap one's fingers and it is fixed issue. And yes, numbers are numbers , and the numbers of kids in the system TODAY, show the need for the 3rd high school, Bob and others have printed them ad nauseum, but for some reason you choose to ignore them.

Just as GM puts it, people are not rioting in the streets, does not mean the problem does not exist. If that viewpoint was a fact - then there are no homeless in this country / there is no financial crisis today / there is no health care crisis etc. just because there aren't people storming the White House / City Hall or the Howie Crouse center.

Yes, the current problem does need addressing, if the long term problem will not be fixed. HOWEVER, if a 3rd HS is going to be build, you do not throw money out there short term ( many more portables) that will not be needed when the HS opens. The life cycle of portables is 5 years - this has been stated also. So if the new HS is built in 2 - we wasted 3 years of finances.

Of course people think it is ok....otherwise changes would be made TODAY .

Portables are usable TODAY...WHY ARE THEY NOT?? It would immediately alleviate any overcrowding today for at least 5 years. And I throw the gauntlet for one to prove to theboard that schools get new portables every 5 years as I know at least 3 school districts who have portables that are well over 5 years old. Is it a special Illinois law??? Do share.

The 3rd hs land is far from being procured....the ref passed in '06 and the numbers have not panned out...

times have changed

[Arch]

Harry,

Run for SB in 2009 and lead us to the promise land.

[doctorwho]

harry said:

doctorwho said:

See that's the problem, no one thinks it's OK -- show me where people are saying that. At Scullen they are getting by waiting for relief - just as many of us have done over the past 20 years waiting for new schools or additions. That does not make it acceptable, but this is not a snap one's fingers and it is fixed issue. And yes, numbers are numbers , and the numbers of kids in the system TODAY, show the need for the 3rd high school, Bob and others have printed them ad nauseum, but for some reason you choose to ignore them.

Just as GM puts it, people are not rioting in the streets, does not mean the problem does not exist. If that viewpoint was a fact - then there are no homeless in this country / there is no financial crisis today / there is no health care crisis etc. just because there aren't people storming the White House / City Hall or the Howie Crouse center.

Yes, the current problem does need addressing, if the long term problem will not be fixed. HOWEVER, if a 3rd HS is going to be build, you do not throw money out there short term ( many more portables) that will not be needed when the HS opens. The life cycle of portables is 5 years - this has been stated also. So if the new HS is built in 2 - we wasted 3 years of finances.

Of course people think it is ok....otherwise changes would be made TODAY .

Portables are usable TODAY...WHY ARE THEY NOT?? It would immediately alleviate any overcrowding today for at least 5 years. And I throw the gauntlet for one to prove to theboard that schools get new portables every 5 years as I know at least 3 school districts who have portables that are well over 5 years old. Is it a special Illinois law??? Do share.

The 3rd hs land is far from being procured....the ref passed in '06 and the numbers have not panned out...

times have changed

Um, no -- people don't think it is OK - there is no direct one to one IMMEDIATE correlation between what people think and a solution being put into place for most anything.

Do you think the nations health care system is OK ? Then why isn't it fixed NOW ? . Is the middle east now at ease ? why not - if people don't think so it should be fixed now. Heck - do you think the state's finances are A OK ? Call up Gov Rod and tell him to fix it now because it needs to be.


If a portable unit is fully depreciated at 5 years - and therefore is no longer an asset, would you not call that a life cycle ? We went thru all of this over a year ago - portables usually need maintenace for mold and other issues after 5 years...they are not intended to be a permanent solution -
Even if the life cycle was 20- 30 years - if we don't need them in 2 years ( after HS is built) - why would we buy them ?

[harry]

[quote

The life cycle of portables is 5 years -[/quote]

I implore you to Prove it ;D

Portables have been installed on numerous SD's around the country, many going on 20 year use...if it is used it is of VALUE

And trust me, 'modular constructions' are very flexible and can be leased/rented or moved etc.

[harry]

archwinsome said:

Harry,

Run for SB in 2009 and lead us to the promise land.

I would never stoop so low to work with #$#%!!!!!

[title1parent]

Well I can vouch for one SD that had them...they had poor air quality and mushrooms growing in the carpeting. That was close to 5 years of use. Now the only benefit to that was the kids had their own Fungi science unit going on in the classroom.

[harry]

title1parent said:

Well I can vouch for one SD that had them...they had poor air quality and mushrooms growing in the carpeting. That was close to 5 years of use. Now the only benefit to that was the kids had their own Fungi science unit going on in the classroom.

Really?? If you can vouch for the SD then please share which one, how long ago that was, how old were the units, were they purchased new, etc.

And p.s. have had mold and ultimately air problems in our own classrooms...so what is your point???

[title1parent]

okay Harry...Yorkville Intermediate School. When I worked there they had just been purchased a year or so to deal with...surprise...OVERCROWDING. They lasted 4 more years until there new HS was built, which opened AT CAPACITY. They converted the HS into a MS and then used the intermediate to house K-2 and the original Grade school for 3-5.

[harry]

title1parent said:

okay Harry...Yorkville Intermediate School. When I worked there they had just been purchased a year or so to deal with...surprise...OVERCROWDING. They lasted 4 more years until there new HS was built, which opened AT CAPACITY. They converted the HS into a MS and then used the intermediate to house K-2 and the original Grade school for 3-5.

OKAY.

AND?

T1 I apologize...let me be clearer


What year were the portable in use??

did the SD throw the portables in the garbage after 5 years or did they just not have a use for them after the hs was built??

Did they lease them??

Didn't they serve the overcrowded purpose???

Again were they purchased new or used???

[title1parent]

I didnt look at the LABEL on the side of the building at the time. Sorry!! Geez. The point is they werent very good quality and they didnt have lockers to house the kids supplies, they had hooks on the back wall. It wasnt a classroom. IT was a trailer.