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Post by slp on Mar 7, 2008 9:10:37 GMT -6
Seems like a lot of the concerns are over perceived lack of communication,information, not fully considering alternatives and moving too fast. "they didn't consider my proposal", "there is still more environment info I must see" "show me all the financial figures" "slow down for everyone until I am satisfied" It seems like people are asking for us to go back to Ancient Greece and practice some Athenian style of democracy. Where every citizen is involved in every detail of every decision. I understand and respect people wanting to be fully involved. We are fortunate to have so many involved and concerned parents and taxpayers. But our system calls for elected representatives to make decisions. I am much more comfortable with our elected representatives making decisions--even if I dont agree with them all--, than having some nebulous, unelected group trying to force different choices. Yes, you can go to the courts to reverse illegal decisions. But ones deemed "poor"? Or made after whats deemed a "poor process?" (I wish some things had turned out differently, too) History tells us this form of democracy ended up not being very practical in Ancient Athens. I certainly agree with over two centuries of American experience, that it wouldn't be practical here and now either. I think this is a recipe for paralysis. Maybe that is what some want. i guess the only thing I have to say to this is , we trusted the actions/words of the school board once (as we navigated through the BB proceedings). I personally put alot of my energies and beliefs on the words told to me by MM. He assured me that BB was 'ours'. Many people blindly supported the school board because we had no reason to doubt their word/actions. Well, now we do have reason to doubt their word/actions, by virtue of the fact at how BB turned out. Lets face it....they were wrong. They were very wrong and things didn't turn out the way they said/thought. Therefore, you cannot blame people for second-guessing every move they make right now. You cannot blame people for questioning why the sb would purchase land BEFORE knowing it is safe. We are justified in questioning their every move at this point. Very justified. Is a lawsuit the answer. I think not. (It implies an unhappiness with WVHS; that is not the issue for me) BUT, I do think someone (a group of concerned citizens) needs to be over their shoulder at this point making sure that what they do now doesn't turn into another debacle. They've made this bed, now they must sleep in it with alot of eyes peering over their shoulders to make sure they don't screw up again! |
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Post by refbasics on Mar 7, 2008 9:11:26 GMT -6
We have 25 acres of good buildable land in the middle of the district with no known hazards. I am not a building expert but I do think a non-comprehensive magnet school should have been considered again. I wish that were the case. I would be on board for that and have felt that was the way to go since the debates about which plan to use to solve over crowding. But unfortunately, that won't work now. We would still need a middle school. Besides, can you imagine the uproar over test scores if you took all the top performing students and put them all at one school?-------------- yes, we wouldn't want to 'find' the students who are not such good 'test takers'... and, maybe, find a way to help them out! that would be too painful, and hard! |
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Post by sushi on Mar 7, 2008 9:18:21 GMT -6
Then it's obvious. We'll just squish in the 2 schools we have. What about the people in TG/Ashbury who live right under the damn things? Aren't they on the Macom site, too?
MM really shot himself in the foot on this one.
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Post by doctorwho on Mar 7, 2008 9:18:46 GMT -6
We have 25 acres of good buildable land in the middle of the district with no known hazards. I am not a building expert but I do think a non-comprehensive magnet school should have been considered again. I wish that were the case. I would be on board for that and have felt that was the way to go since the debates about which plan to use to solve over crowding. But unfortunately, that won't work now. We would still need a middle school. Besides, can you imagine the uproar over test scores if you took all the top performing students and put them all at one school? The one difference would be that that magnet school would be 'expected' to do better than everyone else..just like the Whitney Youngs of the world. Where the issue would come in is if they fell behind other schools non magnet. A good example is where Naperville North on more than one occasion has taken IM&SA academy to task both in math and science in various years. |
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Post by doctorwho on Mar 7, 2008 9:22:29 GMT -6
Seems like a lot of the concerns are over perceived lack of communication,information, not fully considering alternatives and moving too fast. "they didn't consider my proposal", "there is still more environment info I must see" "show me all the financial figures" "slow down for everyone until I am satisfied" It seems like people are asking for us to go back to Ancient Greece and practice some Athenian style of democracy. Where every citizen is involved in every detail of every decision. I understand and respect people wanting to be fully involved. We are fortunate to have so many involved and concerned parents and taxpayers. But our system calls for elected representatives to make decisions. I am much more comfortable with our elected representatives making decisions--even if I dont agree with them all--, than having some nebulous, unelected group trying to force different choices. Yes, you can go to the courts to reverse illegal decisions. But ones deemed "poor"? Or made after whats deemed a "poor process?" (I wish some things had turned out differently, too) History tells us this form of democracy ended up not being very practical in Ancient Athens. I certainly agree with over two centuries of American experience, that it wouldn't be practical here and now either. I think this is a recipe for paralysis. Maybe that is what some want. i guess the only thing I have to say to this is , we trusted the actions/words of the school board once (as we navigated through the BB proceedings). I personally put alot of my energies and beliefs on the words told to me by MM. He assured me that BB was 'ours'. Many people blindly supported the school board because we had no reason to doubt their word/actions. Well, now we do have reason to doubt their word/actions, by virtue of the fact at how BB turned out. Lets face it....they were wrong. They were very wrong and things didn't turn out the way they said/thought. Therefore, you cannot blame people for second-guessing every move they make right now. You cannot blame people for questioning why the sb would purchase land BEFORE knowing it is safe. We are justified in questioning their every move at this point. Very justified. Is a lawsuit the answer. I think not. (It implies an unhappiness with WVHS; that is not the issue for me) BUT, I do think someone (a group of concerned citizens) needs to be over their shoulder at this point making sure that what they do now doesn't turn into another debacle. They've made this bed, now they must sleep in it with alot of eyes peering over their shoulders to make sure they don't screw up again! The problem with that approach lies with those who do not want to send their children to the AME-MWGEN site - and likely will be concerned regardless of what phase 1 and II say ( especially if they can't see the full reports)- as they are not testing for eveything at peak time. What options do those parents have within 204 ? None. |
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Post by WeBe204 on Mar 7, 2008 9:31:35 GMT -6
Metzger never said the site was not safe. It has environmental concerns that BB did not, not to mention it was NOT FOR SALE. It's plain and simple. BB is dead, let's see if we can make this site safe. And you don't believe a cloud will always hang over the site now ? For $150M we can't do better than this ? I believe this decision will haunt this SD for longer than most of us are residents. I am of two minds here. I do not advocate a cloud over anyone's school. This is a place where kids go and I do not want them to feel inferior. I know that sounds cheesy but I do feel that way. If the site is pr oven safe. Then there should be no cloud. I think its fine to want to change aspects of the boundaries to make things more palatable. that cloud can rain all day. No, I am not talking about certain HS assignments. I am talking about splits and transportation times. |
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Post by doctorwho on Mar 7, 2008 9:37:13 GMT -6
And you don't believe a cloud will always hang over the site now ? For $150M we can't do better than this ? I believe this decision will haunt this SD for longer than most of us are residents. I am of two minds here. I do not advocate a cloud over anyone's school. This is a place where kids go and I do not want them to feel inferior. I know that sounds cheesy but I do feel that way. If the site is proven safe. Then there should be no cloud. I think its fine to want to change aspects of the boundaries to make things more palitable. that cloud can rain all day. No, I am not talking about certain HS assignments. I am talking about splits and transportaiton times. I am in total agreement with you - I was referring to how perception becomes realiy and look at how urban myth's/legends survive. Look at how WVHS somehow got negative feelings from people - totally undeserved - and as a parent of a graduate there, I did everything I could to dispel any notiions that was even remotely true to anyone and everyone who would listen -- as have plenty of other parents. Then look at the verbage the last 18 months again. I would give anything for my 8thgrader to be assigned there..yet for the last 10 years there is an undertone that ticks me off. Having been here for 20 years, I can tell you it isn't easy to overcome this stuff -- lord knows many of us have tried. |
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Post by JB on Mar 7, 2008 9:42:28 GMT -6
Gatordog, With all due respect... Our School Board President admitted to me in email that what I found in 20 seconds on Google with relation to the history of that plant had more information than what they were working from and supposedly was 'looked at' for our Super Intendant to make the outright untruth about how many times Diesel Fuel Oil was used at the peaker plant. Even with our School board re-qualifying the Super's statement, they were still wrong. That tells me they do not have reliable information about what they are about to purchase. You really want everyone to just sit back and let a potentially BAD decision be made with everyone's $150 million dollars due to lack of info or having WRONG info and stay on the sidelines and say nothing?You want to potentially flush $150 million down the toilet because some people who SHOULD HAVE DONE their job (Due diligence) , didn't? My, how far we've come indeed. It's not about paralysis. It's about doing the job RIGHT and having the FACTS to make an INFORMED DECISION about whether a site is even SUITABLE for a school or not. ----------------- i, totally, agree, arch! you are my expert on these matters! i've lost trust in the SD/SB on the environmental aspects of AME. What we really need is a comprehensive risk analysis - and by comprehensive I mean looking for issues, not finding reasons to ignore them. We used to do this in the chemical industry prior to building anything - it was called Failure Mode and Effects Analysis. It involves : Failure modes (What could go wrong?) Failure causes (Why would the failure happen?) Failure effects (What would be the consequences of each failure?) I'm not necessarily suggesting we do that for AME, but we need a disciplined analysis of the sites issues. Maybe the Phase II Report will have something similar, but we certainly will need some time to review it. Any harm in forming a Citizens Advisory Board for the site analysis? |
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Post by rural on Mar 7, 2008 9:49:42 GMT -6
We have 25 acres of good buildable land in the middle of the district with no known hazards. I am not a building expert but I do think a non-comprehensive magnet school should have been considered again. I wish that were the case. I would be on board for that and have felt that was the way to go since the debates about which plan to use to solve over crowding. But unfortunately, that won't work now. We would still need a middle school. Besides, can you imagine the uproar over test scores if you took all the top performing students and put them all at one school?-------------- yes, we wouldn't want to 'find' the students who are not such good 'test takers'... and, maybe, find a way to help them out! that would be too painful, and hard! Wow, I really need to remember to use smiley faces to show sarcasm. |
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Post by d204mom on Mar 7, 2008 9:59:43 GMT -6
And you don't believe a cloud will always hang over the site now ? For $150M we can't do better than this ? I believe this decision will haunt this SD for longer than most of us are residents. I am of two minds here. I do not advocate a cloud over anyone's school. This is a place where kids go and I do not want them to feel inferior. I know that sounds cheesy but I do feel that way. If the site is pr oven safe. Then there should be no cloud. I think its fine to want to change aspects of the boundaries to make things more palatable. that cloud can rain all day. No, I am not talking about certain HS assignments. I am talking about splits and transportation times. They KNOW there are PROBLEMS at the site - hense the samples that came back with problems. It's NOT IF the site is safe - it's CAN WE MAKE IT safe? AFTER we buy it? Not acceptable to me. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but Phase I and II DO NOT ADDRESS IN ANY WAY the high EMF readings on the fields. If you want your kid to play or watch baseball or football, you will have to live with those high readings for long term exposure. So far as I know there is no plan to retest or resite the school to mitigate this risk. WHY does everyone think the church got the GOOD site away from the power lines? We got stuck with the BAD site. Q: Why not buy MWGEN and give that to the church? According to Howie, they were happy to talk about a land swap. A: They don't want it! |
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Post by d204mom on Mar 7, 2008 10:05:15 GMT -6
Sorry for all of my angry CAPITALIZATION. I get a little WORKED UP sometimes.  |
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Post by rural on Mar 7, 2008 10:15:51 GMT -6
They KNOW there are PROBLEMS at the site - hense the samples that came back with problems. It's NOT IF the site is safe - it's CAN WE MAKE IT safe? AFTER we buy it? Not acceptable to me. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but Phase I and II DO NOT ADDRESS IN ANY WAY the high EMF readings on the fields. If you want your kid to play or watch baseball or football, you will have to live with those high readings for long term exposure. So far as I know there is no plan to retest or resite the school to mitigate this risk. WHY does everyone think the church got the GOOD site away from the power lines? We got stuck with the BAD site. Q: Why not buy MWGEN and give that to the church? According to Howie, they were happy to talk about a land swap. A: They don't want it! Cute avatar.  So is Dr. D the duck driving this boat? AME kept the land to the south because they own the land and get to select what portion to sell off. |
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Post by Arch on Mar 7, 2008 10:19:14 GMT -6
They KNOW there are PROBLEMS at the site - hense the samples that came back with problems. It's NOT IF the site is safe - it's CAN WE MAKE IT safe? AFTER we buy it? Not acceptable to me. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but Phase I and II DO NOT ADDRESS IN ANY WAY the high EMF readings on the fields. If you want your kid to play or watch baseball or football, you will have to live with those high readings for long term exposure. So far as I know there is no plan to retest or resite the school to mitigate this risk. WHY does everyone think the church got the GOOD site away from the power lines? We got stuck with the BAD site. Q: Why not buy MWGEN and give that to the church? According to Howie, they were happy to talk about a land swap. A: They don't want it! Cute avatar. So is Dr. D the duck driving this boat? AME kept the land to the south because they own the land and get to select what portion to sell off. A butcher always keep back the best steak cut. |
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Post by rural on Mar 7, 2008 10:23:51 GMT -6
A butcher always keep back the best steak cut. No doubt. Arch, I'm so happy you're talking to me again.  |
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Post by d204mom on Mar 7, 2008 10:25:35 GMT -6
They KNOW there are PROBLEMS at the site - hense the samples that came back with problems. It's NOT IF the site is safe - it's CAN WE MAKE IT safe? AFTER we buy it? Not acceptable to me. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but Phase I and II DO NOT ADDRESS IN ANY WAY the high EMF readings on the fields. If you want your kid to play or watch baseball or football, you will have to live with those high readings for long term exposure. So far as I know there is no plan to retest or resite the school to mitigate this risk. WHY does everyone think the church got the GOOD site away from the power lines? We got stuck with the BAD site. Q: Why not buy MWGEN and give that to the church? According to Howie, they were happy to talk about a land swap. A: They don't want it! Cute avatar. So is Dr. D the duck driving this boat? AME kept the land to the south because they own the land and get to select what portion to sell off. I'm just getting started on my Easter decorating. by the by - it's actually a chicken. |
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So is Dr. D the duck driving this boat?