Photo camparison - Power stations at AME and Macom

[gumby]

archwinsome said:

gumby said:

Sure. We'll all be paying triple when it comes to health care costs, litigation, etc. if there genuinely turns out to be health issues involoved.

We'll be paying more than triple if that comes to fruition... Some will pay with something worth more than cash.

Chilling.

I can hardly wait to be the subject of a 60 Minutes or 20/20 article.

[Arch]

gumby said:

archwinsome said:

We'll be paying more than triple if that comes to fruition... Some will pay with something worth more than cash.

Chilling.

I can hardly wait to be the subject of a 60 Minutes or 20/20 article.

Worse... a Darwin Award.

[bbc]

gumby said:

archwinsome said:

We'll be paying more than triple if that comes to fruition... Some will pay with something worth more than cash.

Chilling.

I can hardly wait to be the subject of a 60 Minutes or 20/20 article.

The politics of fear! It has gone from a legitimate concern to make sure the site is safe to it being obviously unsafe, kids will die, lawsuits will be everywhere, and we are going to be on 20/20. wow! Didn't the sb use FEAR (split shifts, portables etc...) to get the referendum passed in the first place. If some people want to pay triple, looks like we need a new referendum. Wonder if a referendum for $375mm would pass?

[gumby]

bbc said:

gumby said:

Chilling.

I can hardly wait to be the subject of a 60 Minutes or 20/20 article.

The politics of fear! It has gone from a legitimate concern to make sure the site is safe to it being obviously unsafe, kids will die, lawsuits will be everywhere, and we are going to be on 20/20. wow! Didn't the sb use FEAR (split shifts, portables etc...) to get the referendum passed in the first place. If some people want to pay triple, looks like we need a new referendum. Wonder if a referendum for $375mm would pass?

The difference being that we have physical, tangible evidence of potential problems. AME may well be a fine site, but there has been absolutely no disclosure proving safety.

[Arch]

Fear is what keeps you from stepping onto the railroad track when a train is coming.

Now, if someone can prove that the fears are completely unfounded with fact and evidence and not opinion, we're all for it.

BBC--

With money not as a consideration, which site do you feel is best and safest for the kids? Why?

[magneto]

Long time reader-1st time poster.
I am also from a Northern family and we are happy that a Northern site is being considered.

I drive the area, namely Ferry Rd.
I have a question. I drive by that peaker plant on Eola n/o Ferry Rd. I noticed they have a big plot of power thingys too. I wonder how many of the power thingys by AME will be removed when the old peakers are removed, along possibly a few of the towers. Does anyone know who I might check with?

[EagleDad]

welcome magneto, how about giving us an aerial photo of the power thingys on the Midwset Generation land, besause I don't see any on Google maps.

BTW, magneto is a good nickname, given the situation.

[magneto]

and here is one a little closer

[cambridgegal]

Just a point of clarification--the above google photos are of the Aurora Power Plant--the functioning peaker plant. Not the Midwest Generation property connected to the AME site. The power plant is 1.5 miles north of AME.

[magneto]

Right. These are from the Reliant plant that replaced the Midwest Generation ones.

Eagledad, these were the ones I was referencing. I hope I did not confuse you thinking these were the Midwest ones. If I did, sorry.

[bbc]

archwinsome said:

Fear is what keeps you from stepping onto the railroad track when a train is coming.

Now, if someone can prove that the fears are completely unfounded with fact and evidence and not opinion, we're all for it.

BBC--

With money not as a consideration, which site do you feel is best and safest for the kids? Why?

I would argue that intelligence is what keeps someone from stepping in front of a moving train--not fear. As i have said previously, being concerned that the AME site is safe is perfectly ok. Assuming it is obviously NOT safe without more facts is unfounded. Before AME even came up, i was concerned that BB might not be safe because it forced a lot of kids to drive on Rt59 which is the busiest road around. Is that illogical?
You keep on asking the question which is the best site not considering money. The question makes no sense to me. How can you take money out of the equation when you are looking at the costs and benefits of a site. With no money, I would have been a YES vote for a free 3rd high school. Beyond that, I honestly don't know which of the sites are the safest. I'll admit it.

[Arch]

bbc said:

archwinsome said:

Fear is what keeps you from stepping onto the railroad track when a train is coming.

Now, if someone can prove that the fears are completely unfounded with fact and evidence and not opinion, we're all for it.

BBC--

With money not as a consideration, which site do you feel is best and safest for the kids? Why?

I would argue that intelligence is what keeps someone from stepping in front of a moving train--not fear. As i have said previously, being concerned that the AME site is safe is perfectly ok. Assuming it is obviously NOT safe without more facts is unfounded. Before AME even came up, i was concerned that BB might not be safe because it forced a lot of kids to drive on Rt59 which is the busiest road around. Is that illogical?
You keep on asking the question which is the best site not considering money. The question makes no sense to me. How can you take money out of the equation when you are looking at the costs and benefits of a site. With no money, I would have been a YES vote for a free 3rd high school. Beyond that, I honestly don't know which of the sites are the safest. I'll admit it.

Non intelligent people can fear and avoid a train.

Money can absolutely be taken out of the equation from a safety perspective. In fact, it should be in order to rank the sites in order of preference.

Each site is former farmland. Common denominator. We either build on farmland or we do not build at all. We decided we need to build. So we move on and this is not a factor because each has equal 'danger' surrounding it as a former farm. Most have accepted that it's not a concern. In fact, we've all pretty much made this decision being that almost every house is on former farmland.

2 sites have railroad tracks bordering them (Macom and AME). Tracks can present a danger due to the cargo that is often carried on them. You can search and find that at times, trains do wreck and contents do spill. Luckily the chances are very low, but the chances are not 0. The only way to have this be 0 is to not have land next to railroad tracks.

Electrical lines are a danger. Certain natural disasters and man-made problems can cause them to come down and remain 'hot'. Things can crash into them (plane, helicopter) and mother nature can have some fun (trees, tornados, etc).
The less lines the better. The further away, the better.

Fuel storage facilities and pipelines are full of potential energy. Accidents do happen and purposeful things also happen in the world that turn these into weapons. Best to avoid an area with them, from a potential threat perspective, IMO. That is why I think AME is a very bad idea when there are other sites.

Traffic is a concern but in this area it is unfortunately unavoidable. What might seem like a light flow today can be a heavy one in just a couple of years. Weighing this as a hazard is fair game but it's also subject to change and it is also subject to remedy (bussing).

Entities nearby that have contamination and or bad runoff is a concern. Any landfill is and should be a concern. (That counts out Hamman in my opinion). Luckily, it's the only one with that problem.

Notice how money was not even part of this yet?

Due to the above, I rank them as BB and Wagner land ties for first. Macom second (rail and power lines as noted hazards). AME and Hamman tied for last place due to hazards (AME=RR, Pipeline, Enviro, Power. Hamman = DUMP-too many unknowns of what is really there. Since that is Well Water territory, I can only think of Lockformer as an example)

[proschool]

bbc said:

archwinsome said:

Fear is what keeps you from stepping onto the railroad track when a train is coming.

Now, if someone can prove that the fears are completely unfounded with fact and evidence and not opinion, we're all for it.

BBC--

With money not as a consideration, which site do you feel is best and safest for the kids? Why?

I would argue that intelligence is what keeps someone from stepping in front of a moving train--not fear. As i have said previously, being concerned that the AME site is safe is perfectly ok. Assuming it is obviously NOT safe without more facts is unfounded. Before AME even came up, i was concerned that BB might not be safe because it forced a lot of kids to drive on Rt59 which is the busiest road around. Is that illogical?
You keep on asking the question which is the best site not considering money. The question makes no sense to me. How can you take money out of the equation when you are looking at the costs and benefits of a site. With no money, I would have been a YES vote for a free 3rd high school. Beyond that, I honestly don't know which of the sites are the safest. I'll admit it.

What kids would have to be on route 59 at BB?

Fry can take 248th and Frontanac. We can take Frontenac. Those from the east will either take Ogden to Commons of 75th street all the way to the school.

[EagleDad]

magneto said:

Right. These are from the Reliant plant that replaced the Midwest Generation ones.

Eagledad, these were the ones I was referencing. I hope I did not confuse you thinking these were the Midwest ones. If I did, sorry.

Oh sorry, I ws confused, I have no idea, nor care how much smaller the substation at Butterfield Road a mile and a half North will be.

[EagleDad]

There's only one site that:

• Is next to train tracks
  
• Is next to an industrial park
  
• Has been the storage site of jet fuel for the last 30 years
  
• Has a 36 inch natural gas pipeline under it.
  
• Has only two points of access and those within 600 feet of each other
  
• Has a decomissioned power generation facility that needs to be removed
  
• Is less than a half mile from a future I-88 interchange
  
• Has 9 acres of wetlands that must be mitigated at an unpublished and unbudgeted cost.
  
• Forces a significant number of students to commute farther than they do at their current school.
  

But alas, it looks like our future school, so we might as well start calling it home.