The Macom Deal

[d204mom]

warriorpride said:

I don't expect everyone to agree with me or even like me for my opinion. Yes, I have a strong feeling about this - and, like I said, only someone who feeds onto WV and will likely be staying there after MV is built could even have a chance at feeling this way.

There are very few "unaffected" areas (those who will likely stay at their current school) if you compare Macom to AME to the "mystery" site (Bolingbrook possibly?). Looking at a map, who is likely to stay at WV or NV or go to MV given these variables?

I'd say everyone in the district but walkers are fair game to switch schools at this point. Well, not even walkers because nearly every criteria except time and money have been thrown out the window at this point so I assume "keeping walkers as walkers" will be the next to go.

[confused]

lacy said:

warriorpride said:

sorry - I'm going to post against the same quote again...

Do you think that Lehman stands to significantly benefit from MV being built @ Macom? I do

Why should he not be expected to provide a deep discount in exchange for the benefits that he's getting?

See, this is where we differ - it doesn't make a hill of beans difference to me what he stands to gain.

If it's a win to the district and the kids then I don't care.

So it doesn't have to be free or almost free. If it's a better deal than the others and it "works" concerning all the variables at play - then do it.

Great point, Lacy - you got to the heart of it. If a person found a house that they loved and the owner was a @$#%! they would still pay whatever the market price because they loved that house and it was good for their family.

[gatormom]

confused said:

lacy said:

See, this is where we differ - it doesn't make a hill of beans difference to me what he stands to gain.

If it's a win to the district and the kids then I don't care.

So it doesn't have to be free or almost free. If it's a better deal than the others and it "works" concerning all the variables at play - then do it.

Great point, Lacy - you got to the heart of it. If a person found a house that they loved and the owner was a @$#%! they would still pay whatever the market price because they loved that house and it was good for their family.

If that was the case, we would have started to build on BB already.

[warriorpride]

confused said:

lacy said:

See, this is where we differ - it doesn't make a hill of beans difference to me what he stands to gain.

If it's a win to the district and the kids then I don't care.

So it doesn't have to be free or almost free. If it's a better deal than the others and it "works" concerning all the variables at play - then do it.

Great point, Lacy - you got to the heart of it. If a person found a house that they loved and the owner was a @$#%! they would still pay whatever the market price because they loved that house and it was good for their family.

It'd different - it's not a multi-million dollar busines deal. And, I bet some people would walk away. Some people don't shop at certain stores or purchase certain items becaues they don't agree with the policies of certain companies, even if it's less convinient.

What if there were 2 houses, fairly equal, and one owner was an a-hole and one wasn't - who'd you buy from?

[confused]

O.K. let me rephrase, if the house were within their budget...otherwise we'd have another bankrupt foreclosure family to add to the growing list.

[confused]

what if they weren't fairly equal?

[confused]

location, location, location

[warriorpride]

confused said:

what if they weren't fairly equal?

then priorities, opinions, preferences, and maybe emotions come into play - buying or selling a house can be very emotional

eta: true story - my neighbor sold his house to a couple that offerred him less $ because he thought they'd be a better addition to the neighborhood

[doctorwho]

warriorpride said:

confused said:

I think I learned how to quote! Why are you talking about getting the school built ASAP, on budget, as if that is in conflict with doing something in the best interest of the kids and the future of the district? How much of a delay are we really talking about with Macom vs the north site? I heard the complaint about Wolf's Crossing going in - it doesn't mean they couldn't get construction vehicles to the site in the meantime - I've driven by and it's completely accessible. I think that by the time the school would open in 2009 to Freshman & Sophomores they could have adequate access. What are the other hold ups?

I keep hearing about the couple who live there? Is that really still an issue? Would they be o.k. with leaving? Should I go to their door and ask them?

What is the problem with opening the school ASAP at Macom? Warrior Pride, this continues to be one of your comments - what does that mean for site selection?

1) Time
There are some that have younger kids, not quite affected by the MS and/or HS crowding that do not have have as much of a sense of urgency about this that I do. I worked on ref. to help my kids. If my kids were just about out of HS, I honestly don't think I would have cared about the ref. So, I want the school built ASAP. Fair enough?

2) Cost
I been consistent about Macom. IMO Lehman's done damage to 204 with his comments & actions. I've also said that if Macom offers a VERY sweet deal, then fine, as long as there's a huge savings to 204 AND no impact to the timeline. As I said, we shouldn't bail Macom out here - he's the one that owes US - so just offering us the land (at a market price) just isn't good enough for me.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me or even like me for my opinion. Yes, I have a strong feeling about this - and, like I said, only someone who feeds onto WV and will likely be staying there after MV is built could even have a chance at feeling this way. I know most on this board don't fall into this category. You can keep talking purely about cost and boundaries, but I've referred to intangibles before, and for me, there are some big, hairy ones that come with Macom.

There's nothing more to read into my comments. I think I've been very consistent with what I say. if some people are allowed to tag a north site as least desireable, then I think I should be allowed to tag Macom as my least desireable.

BTW, I don't think that 204 will collapse, no matter where MV is build, or probably when. There'll initially be unhappy people (actually, it'll just be the parents, the kids will be fine), no what ther outcome. Then, it'll calm down over time.

here's where I disagree - you are not giving enough credit to the kids in this district -- I can tell you kids are already upset at the thought of leaving the school they start at -- 8th graders -- of which I have one discuss this more often than you think. My daughter has 3 reasons to be upset - and these are her reasons : 1/ Doesn't want to leave the HS she starts at to go to a new school 2/ Wants to go to WV very badly - follow her sister and already knows teachers/coaches there 3/ Very upset at the thought of not having varsity sports sophomore year - if new school opens and she goes there.

The more kids you disrupt like this, the more will be upset.

Please do not shortchange what these kids feel - they're not this super resilient unemotional group being portrayed.

Now parents have different reasons for not liking one site over another - and kids are not sitting there figuring if an area has to travel 10 miles one way to HS - and a long ways to MS that bus rides will increase from already being too long, not thinking about the potential horrible traffic and safety, not thinking about how the neighborhood will be affected by not having a MS or HS within 2 zip codes -- yeah, I agree with that. But we need to stop saying oh the kids can take anything - it's simply not true.

There's a reason over the years parents try not to move while their kids are in HS --

[doctorwho]

warriorpride said:

confused said:

Great point, Lacy - you got to the heart of it. If a person found a house that they loved and the owner was a @$#%! they would still pay whatever the market price because they loved that house and it was good for their family.

It'd different - it's not a multi-million dollar busines deal. And, I bet some people would walk away. Some people don't shop at certain stores or purchase certain items becaues they don't agree with the policies of certain companies, even if it's less convinient.

What if there were 2 houses, fairly equal, and one owner was an a-hole and one wasn't - who'd you buy from?

I'd buy the house I wanted most - period. That's what I pay attorneys for - to handle the rest.
Hey, someone's gonna buy from me someday - ( maybe )-

[lacy]

warriorpride said:

confused said:

Great point, Lacy - you got to the heart of it. If a person found a house that they loved and the owner was a @$#%! they would still pay whatever the market price because they loved that house and it was good for their family.

It'd different - it's not a multi-million dollar busines deal. And, I bet some people would walk away. Some people don't shop at certain stores or purchase certain items becaues they don't agree with the policies of certain companies, even if it's less convinient.

What if there were 2 houses, fairly equal, and one owner was an a-hole and one wasn't - who'd you buy from?

I would absolutely do what was best for me and my family financially. No question.

Personal feelings need to be separated from business dealings.

But I know people buy "green" stocks and stuff like that - I don't. I buy stocks I think I'll make money from. I shop from stores I think I'm getting the best deal from, etc.

[doctorwho]

warriorpride said:

confused said:

I think the whole time argument is another excuse in the waiting for the SB - trying to find some viable reason why they would select a north site when this site is clearly the better choice for the district. And your argument about it being childish for people to not support the 09 referendum when unhappy with location or boundaries...if voters feel they have been handed a childish decision, it would be completely expected that many will feel it is within their right to show their discontent by voting against the 09 referendum.

Voting is the only power the community has been given - it's their only opportunity to show their disapproval of the board's actions. Should that happen, one would have to ask which came first...the poor, unprofessional actions of the SB or the consequences reflected in the votes?

voting for or against someone in the SB election is one thing - voting against an operating Ref (especially out of spite) is another - but you're right, it's a free country - people can shoot themselves in the foot if they really want to - can anyone show me what good comes of the 09 Ref failing?

None, but what good came from voting down the first referendum ? What good came from some areas voting heavily NO last time ?

In my last post I said you didn't give the students ( especially 8th graders right now) enough credit for their stance on all this in the district - this time I think you are giving voters too much credit in rationally thinking the whole think through before they vote. Most feel they are powerless to get their opinions out except for one way. WP, I know you worked door to soor like I did, how many irrational people did you meet ? How many that didn;t want to hear what you had to say- they had already decided what to do ?

Like I already said, as have others, I think the northern site is very bad for my area and a few others - yet I would not vote down the future ref. -- however I can tell you a lot of my neighbors will-- we've already lost some just due to the delays -

[wvhsparent]

doctorwho said:

warriorpride said:

1) Time
There are some that have younger kids, not quite affected by the MS and/or HS crowding that do not have have as much of a sense of urgency about this that I do. I worked on ref. to help my kids. If my kids were just about out of HS, I honestly don't think I would have cared about the ref. So, I want the school built ASAP. Fair enough?

2) Cost
I been consistent about Macom. IMO Lehman's done damage to 204 with his comments & actions. I've also said that if Macom offers a VERY sweet deal, then fine, as long as there's a huge savings to 204 AND no impact to the timeline. As I said, we shouldn't bail Macom out here - he's the one that owes US - so just offering us the land (at a market price) just isn't good enough for me.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me or even like me for my opinion. Yes, I have a strong feeling about this - and, like I said, only someone who feeds onto WV and will likely be staying there after MV is built could even have a chance at feeling this way. I know most on this board don't fall into this category. You can keep talking purely about cost and boundaries, but I've referred to intangibles before, and for me, there are some big, hairy ones that come with Macom.

There's nothing more to read into my comments. I think I've been very consistent with what I say. if some people are allowed to tag a north site as least desireable, then I think I should be allowed to tag Macom as my least desireable.

BTW, I don't think that 204 will collapse, no matter where MV is build, or probably when. There'll initially be unhappy people (actually, it'll just be the parents, the kids will be fine), no what ther outcome. Then, it'll calm down over time.

here's where I disagree - you are not giving enough credit to the kids in this district -- I can tell you kids are already upset at the thought of leaving the school they start at -- 8th graders -- of which I have one discuss this more often than you think. My daughter has 3 reasons to be upset - and these are her reasons : 1/ Doesn't want to leave the HS she starts at to go to a new school 2/ Wants to go to WV very badly - follow her sister and already knows teachers/coaches there 3/ Very upset at the thought of not having varsity sports sophomore year - if new school opens and she goes there.

The more kids you disrupt like this, the more will be upset.

Please do not shortchange what these kids feel - they're not this super resilient unemotional group being portrayed.

Now parents have different reasons for not liking one site over another - and kids are not sitting there figuring if an area has to travel 10 miles one way to HS - and a long ways to MS that bus rides will increase from already being too long, not thinking about the potential horrible traffic and safety, not thinking about how the neighborhood will be affected by not having a MS or HS within 2 zip codes -- yeah, I agree with that. But we need to stop saying oh the kids can take anything - it's simply not true.

There's a reason over the years parents try not to move while their kids are in HS --

All the reasons you list doctor are valid ones, and pertain to a HS switch irregardless of the site.
Also all the cited reasons are temporary, affecting a small group of students. ( the initial switchers) after which, when the school is established those concerns will mostly be gone.
The Parents concerns of distance is one less likely to change, but will also lessen with time.

[doctorwho]

lacy said:

warriorpride said:

sorry - I'm going to post against the same quote again...

Do you think that Lehman stands to significantly benefit from MV being built @ Macom? I do

Why should he not be expected to provide a deep discount in exchange for the benefits that he's getting?

See, this is where we differ - it doesn't make a hill of beans difference to me what he stands to gain.

If it's a win to the district and the kids then I don't care.

So it doesn't have to be free or almost free. If it's a better deal than the others and it "works" concerning all the variables at play - then do it.

absolutely agree -

[warriorpride]

lacy said:

warriorpride said:

It'd different - it's not a multi-million dollar busines deal. And, I bet some people would walk away. Some people don't shop at certain stores or purchase certain items becaues they don't agree with the policies of certain companies, even if it's less convinient.

What if there were 2 houses, fairly equal, and one owner was an a-hole and one wasn't - who'd you buy from?

I would absolutely do what was best for me and my family financially. No question.

Personal feelings need to be separated from business dealings.

But I know people buy "green" stocks and stuff like that - I don't. I buy stocks I think I'll make money from. I shop from stores I think I'm getting the best deal from, etc.

do you go to Super Walmart?