The Macom Deal

[warriorpride]

doctorwho said:

...
here's where I disagree - you are not giving enough credit to the kids in this district -- I can tell you kids are already upset at the thought of leaving the school they start at -- 8th graders -- of which I have one discuss this more often than you think. My daughter has 3 reasons to be upset - and these are her reasons : 1/ Doesn't want to leave the HS she starts at to go to a new school 2/ Wants to go to WV very badly - follow her sister and already knows teachers/coaches there 3/ Very upset at the thought of not having varsity sports sophomore year - if new school opens and she goes there.

The more kids you disrupt like this, the more will be upset.

Please do not shortchange what these kids feel - they're not this super resilient unemotional group being portrayed.

Now parents have different reasons for not liking one site over another - and kids are not sitting there figuring if an area has to travel 10 miles one way to HS - and a long ways to MS that bus rides will increase from already being too long, not thinking about the potential horrible traffic and safety, not thinking about how the neighborhood will be affected by not having a MS or HS within 2 zip codes -- yeah, I agree with that. But we need to stop saying oh the kids can take anything - it's simply not true.

There's a reason over the years parents try not to move while their kids are in HS --

My son shares some of the same feelings (minus the varsity thing) but he ended up with "well I'd be OK anyone if I went to school with my friends". Bottom line: whatever the boundaries are, a set of freshman are going to be moved from some HS to MV, and the first few incoming classes are going to have to pay a small price for opening the new school. But, this has little to do with the location or boundaries - it's just a matter of which area's kids are affected by this.

[doctorwho]

gatormom said:

confused said:

Great point, Lacy - you got to the heart of it. If a person found a house that they loved and the owner was a @$#%! they would still pay whatever the market price because they loved that house and it was good for their family.

If that was the case, we would have started to build on BB already.

if only they had-- today I could drive my 8th grader by the site and say:

" here's where you'll be going to school" - instead of, "yeah I know you're in 8th grade - and I can tell you that you will be at WV your first year - but in the freshman center ( not the 'real' school as I have heard the kids say) - and maybe you'll get to go to the 'real' school - but maybe you'll be going to NV ) If MACOM is selected - or maybe you'll stay at WV then, or maybe you'll be taking the Greyhound up to Fermi lab to open a new school, and btw - forget some things until the following year, or maybe you'll be going to a 'mystery site', now isn't that exciting ?
Who'll be going there with you -- sorry, can't tell you that either. Don't worry , you be just fine no matter what"

Yet somehow they are supposed to be OK with that ?

[wvhsparent]

doctorwho said:

lacy said:

See, this is where we differ - it doesn't make a hill of beans difference to me what he stands to gain.

If it's a win to the district and the kids then I don't care.

So it doesn't have to be free or almost free. If it's a better deal than the others and it "works" concerning all the variables at play - then do it.

absolutely agree -

It needs to be a GREAT Offer. and yes if the SD benefits then go for it. Even though this is my least fav site.
PL is not doing this for altruistic reasons. And I certainly don't think he should take a loss for it, but neither should he make gobs of money on it.
Could'nt he write it off on his taxes as a donation?

[gatormom]

doctorwho said:

gatormom said:

If that was the case, we would have started to build on BB already.

if only they had-- today I could drive my 8th grader by the site and say:

" here's where you'll be going to school" - instead of, "yeah I know you're in 8th grade - and I can tell you that you will be at WV your first year - but in the freshman center ( not the 'real' school as I have heard the kids say) - and maybe you'll get to go to the 'real' school - but maybe you'll be going to NV ) If MACOM is selected - or maybe you'll stay at WV then, or maybe you'll be taking the Greyhound up to Fermi lab to open a new school, and btw - forget some things until the following year, or maybe you'll be going to a 'mystery site', now isn't that exciting ?
Who'll be going there with you -- sorry, can't tell you that either. Don't worry , you be just fine no matter what"

Yet somehow they are supposed to be OK with that ?

You are not alone in that Dr. Who. Every now and then, my daughter asks me, do we know what high school I am going to? And I get to say, no we don't.

With BB, my daughter's friends were going to Waubonsie and she was not. She had accepted that. Now we just don't know anymore and yes, she is frustrated.

[doctorwho]

wvhsparent said:

doctorwho said:

absolutely agree -

It needs to be a GREAT Offer. and yes if the SD benefits then go for it. Even though this is my least fav site.
PL is not doing this for altruistic reasons. And I certainly don't think he should take a loss for it, but neither should he make gobs of money on it.
Could'nt he write it off on his taxes as a donation?

For me it just needs to be a better offer - when balancing financials / site issues / SD issues - with the location.
I don't want to think about who is making what on this. I don't do that when I buy a car - I didn't do it when I bought my house -- I don't want to send my tax money to Uncle Sam when I perceive he may be spending it on things I don't want him to either - but I believe in not letting that get n the way here.
Do I like some of the comments / insinuations about WV from PL - those who know me here likely know how I would feel about that -- others have even more personal stuff -- but once the deal is done, I am not having the man over to my house for dinner, nor am I golfing with him etc.-- this is a business deal, and I think we should only be worried about our end of it.
I could care less who owns the best land - PL, Donald Trump or the nicest man in the world -- if it is the best deal for us, it is the best deal for us.

I loathe the BB attorneys right now - but if they came back tomorrow and offered us the land so we could afford it, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I would like them no more than before after all the delays etc -- but would move on.

[doctorwho]

gatormom said:

doctorwho said:

if only they had-- today I could drive my 8th grader by the site and say:

" here's where you'll be going to school" - instead of, "yeah I know you're in 8th grade - and I can tell you that you will be at WV your first year - but in the freshman center ( not the 'real' school as I have heard the kids say) - and maybe you'll get to go to the 'real' school - but maybe you'll be going to NV ) If MACOM is selected - or maybe you'll stay at WV then, or maybe you'll be taking the Greyhound up to Fermi lab to open a new school, and btw - forget some things until the following year, or maybe you'll be going to a 'mystery site', now isn't that exciting ?
Who'll be going there with you -- sorry, can't tell you that either. Don't worry , you be just fine no matter what"

Yet somehow they are supposed to be OK with that ?

You are not alone in that Dr. Who. Every now and then, my daughter asks me, do we know what high school I am going to? And I get to say, no we don't.

With BB, my daughter's friends were going to Waubonsie and she was not. She had accepted that. Now we just don't know anymore and yes, she is frustrated.

yep, the 7th and 8th graders today are caught in the cross hairs, and we need to listen to them also. The 7th graders like your daughter have a different issue than the 8th graders like mine, but just as troubling. And if the school opening slips to 2010, as it appears it might, then shift those issues down one year.

[doctorwho]

warriorpride said:

doctorwho said:

...
here's where I disagree - you are not giving enough credit to the kids in this district -- I can tell you kids are already upset at the thought of leaving the school they start at -- 8th graders -- of which I have one discuss this more often than you think. My daughter has 3 reasons to be upset - and these are her reasons : 1/ Doesn't want to leave the HS she starts at to go to a new school 2/ Wants to go to WV very badly - follow her sister and already knows teachers/coaches there 3/ Very upset at the thought of not having varsity sports sophomore year - if new school opens and she goes there.

The more kids you disrupt like this, the more will be upset.

Please do not shortchange what these kids feel - they're not this super resilient unemotional group being portrayed.

Now parents have different reasons for not liking one site over another - and kids are not sitting there figuring if an area has to travel 10 miles one way to HS - and a long ways to MS that bus rides will increase from already being too long, not thinking about the potential horrible traffic and safety, not thinking about how the neighborhood will be affected by not having a MS or HS within 2 zip codes -- yeah, I agree with that. But we need to stop saying oh the kids can take anything - it's simply not true.

There's a reason over the years parents try not to move while their kids are in HS --

My son shares some of the same feelings (minus the varsity thing) but he ended up with "well I'd be OK anyone if I went to school with my friends". Bottom line: whatever the boundaries are, a set of freshman are going to be moved from some HS to MV, and the first few incoming classes are going to have to pay a small price for opening the new school. But, this has little to do with the location or boundaries - it's just a matter of which area's kids are affected by this.

My daughters are affected by location of the school also - currently ( BB boundaries) she would go to HS with all her VB friends - they mostly live in WE and Owen ( the same as where most of my oldest daughters friends were) - a change to the northern site cuts her off from them. We have a much different situation here in that we do not go to MS with anyone around us lcoation wise except Cowlishaw. Does she have friends in BD and LW - sure, but for kids who play club sports - most of their free time is spent with those they play with - whether that be VB- soccer -BB or whatever. Be that right or wrong, it is a fact.

Every person here will be affected differently, that I acknowledge.

[rew]

wvhsparent said:

The Parents concerns of distance is one less likely to change, but will also lessen with time.

It doesn't seem to have lessened over the last ten years....

and again, my numbers say, will affect more and more areas over time

[warriorpride]

doctorwho said:

wvhsparent said:

It needs to be a GREAT Offer. and yes if the SD benefits then go for it. Even though this is my least fav site.
PL is not doing this for altruistic reasons. And I certainly don't think he should take a loss for it, but neither should he make gobs of money on it.
Could'nt he write it off on his taxes as a donation?

For me it just needs to be a better offer - when balancing financials / site issues / SD issues - with the location.
I don't want to think about who is making what on this. I don't do that when I buy a car - I didn't do it when I bought my house -- I don't want to send my tax money to Uncle Sam when I perceive he may be spending it on things I don't want him to either - but I believe in not letting that get n the way here.
Do I like some of the comments / insinuations about WV from PL - those who know me here likely know how I would feel about that -- others have even more personal stuff -- but once the deal is done, I am not having the man over to my house for dinner, nor am I golfing with him etc.-- this is a business deal, and I think we should only be worried about our end of it.
I could care less who owns the best land - PL, Donald Trump or the nicest man in the world -- if it is the best deal for us, it is the best deal for us.

I loathe the BB attorneys right now - but if they came back tomorrow and offered us the land so we could afford it, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I would like them no more than before after all the delays etc -- but would move on.

Actually, I WOULD like to know what Macom paid for the land that they are trying to sell to us. To me, that is a relevant piece of information.

[yeson321]

I have not seen posts mentioning the positives on Macom in relation to the Frontier Campus. I for one would like my children to take advantage of college courses at a reduced tuition, if at all possible. People have complained that WVHS is too far - well a Northern MVHS makes that near impossible given the time constraints. The distance of a Northern site has many negatives, one that for my family if forced to go to a Northern MVHS will not lessen over time.

[gatormom]

yeson321 said:

I have not seen posts mentioning the positives on Macom in relation to the Frontier Campus. I for one would like my children to take advantage of college courses at a reduced tuition, if at all possible. People have complained that WVHS is too far - well a Northern MVHS makes that near impossible given the time constraints. The distance of a Northern site has many negatives, one that for my family if forced to go to a Northern MVHS will not lessen over time.

Ideally, Frontier Campus is not for one or two classes, it offers a college setting in the senior year of high school for the senior who is ready for that. That really should not be part of the formula in selecting a site, IMO.

[sam2]

doctorwho said:

wvhsparent said:

I loathe the BB attorneys right now - but if they came back tomorrow and offered us the land so we could afford it, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I would like them no more than before after all the delays etc -- but would move on.

It's unfair to blame the BB attorneys. The school district attempted to take title to the property involuntarily. BB hired attorneys to protect their interest. Clearly, they did an excellent job for their client. They had no duty to serve anyone else. On the other side, the SB lobbied the population, the legislature, engaged the city of Naperville's support and hired their own attorneys. They won the right to take the land, they just don't like the price. If quick take had succeeded we'd have been forced to pay this price --- don't take out your frustrtions on the BB attorneys. They just did a better job.

Sorry, but it is that simple. Attorneys are ethically bound to represent the interests of their clients and no one else.

[EagleDad]

wvhsparent said:

doctorwho said:

absolutely agree -

It needs to be a GREAT Offer. and yes if the SD benefits then go for it. Even though this is my least fav site.
PL is not doing this for altruistic reasons. And I certainly don't think he should take a loss for it, but neither should he make gobs of money on it.
Could'nt he write it off on his taxes as a donation?

Why does the offer have to be any better than one from AME, or Wagner, or Ferry? If I said the same thing, say that the AME offer had to be great - that they had to GIVE us the land for free because I hate them, wouldn't you call that unreasonable? I would.

It just needs to be the best offer, for the best land. Nothing more.

As for taxes, I wonder if AME jeopardizes their tax-free non-profit status selling a piece of land they never used bought for 6MM for say 15MM.

[wvhsparent]

gatormom said:

yeson321 said:

I have not seen posts mentioning the positives on Macom in relation to the Frontier Campus. I for one would like my children to take advantage of college courses at a reduced tuition, if at all possible. People have complained that WVHS is too far - well a Northern MVHS makes that near impossible given the time constraints. The distance of a Northern site has many negatives, one that for my family if forced to go to a Northern MVHS will not lessen over time.

Ideally, Frontier Campus is not for one or two classes, it offers a college setting in the senior year of high school for the senior who is ready for that. That really should not be part of the formula in selecting a site, IMO.

Exactly. the concept is that is where a Senior would go for the day? I am unclear. Is there travel between Frontier and the HS during the day for other courses?
Where it is located benefits the South end of the dist much better. This is an example where a centrally located facility is better as there is only 1 to service the entire district.
Anyone with a child at Frontier please chime in and report on your experience.

[warriorpride]

eagledad said:

wvhsparent said:

It needs to be a GREAT Offer. and yes if the SD benefits then go for it. Even though this is my least fav site.
PL is not doing this for altruistic reasons. And I certainly don't think he should take a loss for it, but neither should he make gobs of money on it.
Could'nt he write it off on his taxes as a donation?

Why does the offer have to be any better than one from AME, or Wagner, or Ferry? If I said the same thing, say that the AME offer had to be great - that they had to GIVE us the land for free because I hate them, wouldn't you call that unreasonable? I would.

It just needs to be the best offer, for the best land. Nothing more.

As for taxes, I wonder if AME jeopardizes their tax-free non-profit status selling a piece of land they never used bought for 6MM for say 15MM.

Do you agree that Macom benefits from MV being built on their property?