The VoteNo Solution

[admin]

voteno204.org/


This is a thread only to honestly critique their plan not a VoteNo bashing thread.

Let's pick it apart and see if it holds water just like what we have done to the SB solution.


My first question is who benefits at VoteNo? Does anyone at VoteNo have interest in any company that could benefit from smaller additions, modular classrooms?

Who are the financial backers of VoteNo? Can we see who donated to them and who funded for signs and leaflets?

If they want me to consider their plan, I want to see who is really behind them.

[admin]

Convert Peterson Elementary School to a Middle School

• Peterson was scheduled to open Fall 2006 for 850 elementary students

• Delayed opening due to lack of student generation; date of opening undecided

• No need for more Elementary classroom space in the District

• Provides permanent Middle School classroom space

• Cost of conversion expected to be less than $10 Million

My question here is what happens if Sector G suddenly produces 200-300 kids. Where do we put them?
Fry is at 91% capacity,Kendall will be getting more crowded since their lower grades are larger than the higher grades. This is some room at Graham about 93 students to be at 93% cap.

[rew]

Gym space....no locker rooms for changing or showering, no bleachers for interschool competitions, no playing fields, no band, chorus, orchestra space, no science lab space , no home ec, sewing, drafting, ...you must expand for computer electives, limited food service capacity, basically you would need extensive renovation/remodel of space or alter current curriculum siginificantly. IMO it could not operate like our current MSs w/o major additions.

[gatormom]

Can Peterson be turned into a MS?

That big a change would require more than adding seats or classrooms. The ES does not even have a kitchen let alone locker rooms. So much would have to be added in addition to classroom space.

Is the land available?

[Arch]

I would wonder if knocking it down and starting over on the land would be cheaper. 'Converting' an elementary school to be equal to the current middle schools seems like it would require a re-start...or salvaging very little of the original internals just due to the floor layouts alone.

[lancer]

Yup. I think converting Peterson is a lot more than it seems. I know I wouldn't like it if my middle schooler went to a converted school without the same science classes, home ec, gym, etc. experiences as you find in the other middle schools in the district. Until it fills up, I'd like to see Peterson classrooms used for some of the self contained special ed classes. I think some of the Vote No information is valid. But I just don't see how it's beneficial to cram 5,000 kids in a school. It's easy to say there are other options other than a new high school...but are these really realistic?

[wvhsparent]

I saw that addition to NV document.......

www.voteno204.org/nvhsaddition.pdf

where the heck did that come from? with a 2005 and 2006 estimate on it.

How can they have a proposal if they claim not have the land for said addition. Also it stated on the top "to accomodate 3600 students"....forgive me, but is that not what they claim it can hold now?

[JB]

admin said:

voteno204.org/


This is a thread only to honestly critique their plan not a VoteNo bashing thread.

Let's pick it apart and see if it holds water just like what we have done to the SB solution.


My first question is who benefits at VoteNo? Does anyone at VoteNo have interest in any company that could benefit from smaller additions, modular classrooms?

Who are the financial backers of VoteNo? Can we see who donated to them and who funded for signs and leaflets?

If they want me to consider their plan, I want to see who is really behind them.

Is CFO a PAC? If they are, shouldn't there be info about them?

In tems of benefits, what about developers who want to rezone (dead horse, thump, thump)?

Seriously, if developers can sing the "economic hardship" song loud enough, the city is likley to allow townhomes and apartments to sprout up as fast as the corn used to.

Is there more money to be made from apartments vs. single family?

That's my follow the money theory.

[Avenging Eagle]

wvhsparent said:

I saw that addition to NV document.......

www.voteno204.org/nvhsaddition.pdf

where the heck did that come from? with a 2005 and 2006 estimate on it.

How can they have a proposal if they claim not have the land for said addition. Also it stated on the top "to accomodate 3600 students"....forgive me, but is that not what they claim it can hold now?

Instead of building out as was intended by the architect, this estimate of expanding Neuqua puts one or more new floors above many areas.

It suggests adding various 1 and 2 story additions, and then making the required adjustments to stairwells, etc.

This notion goes against the architectural design of Neuqua, but will make someone some money.

I also suspect foul play with this notion of re-doing something over and over.....just like the tollways in which they seem to be under construction all the time.

Also, I don't like the Petersen idea either.....
Another reason besides the ones mentioned above, is that it doesn't have a/c like all of our gradeschools, so using it as a middle school would cause an equity inbalance (and hot students and teachers).

[Avenging Eagle]

rew said:

Gym space....no locker rooms for changing or showering, no bleachers for interschool competitions, no playing fields, no band, chorus, orchestra space, no science lab space , no home ec, sewing, drafting, ...you must expand for computer electives, limited food service capacity, basically you would need extensive renovation/remodel of space or alter current curriculum siginificantly. IMO it could not operate like our current MSs w/o major additions.

One more thing....

Currently, when our students go to freshman centers, its bad enough that they find out there are back to where they started from...in a Jr. High Building..

Now, we would be telling our new Middle School students "Congratulations...you have made it 6 years through ES.....and your reward IS.......you get to go back to an elementary school for 3 more years. )

[gatormom]

Waubonsie is an example of where building on and up brings you. Can't remember, maybe 7 additions. Beautiful building, but you can't get there from here.

[fence]

Someone ask Naperville Central how that's working out for them. Yes, they have a good ranking (just went down this year to below NNHS I do notice) but I think we have an opportunity that we need to act upon here and I think we should take it. We see the enrollment going up. We know we need the space. This is a family community that will continue to attract kids if we keep up our reputation. We have the land to build a facility to accomodate the growth. We want a solution that is desirable for students and for the collective community. I am not sure how any of the other solutions will have the same effect in all areas of the equation.

[charmant]

Now, we would be telling our new Middle School students "Congratulations...you have made it 6 years through ES.....and your reward IS.......you get to go back to an elementary school for 3 more years. )

And the down side to their education requirements is................??

[fence]

charmant said:

Now, we would be telling our new Middle School students "Congratulations...you have made it 6 years through ES.....and your reward IS.......you get to go back to an elementary school for 3 more years. )

And the down side to their education requirements is................??[/quote]

That they go to middle school in a building with none of the necessary elements available to make it a middle school. Why would we spend millions of dollars to change an elementary school into a middle school when we might end up back in the situation where we need to build another elementary school in the south when all is said and done. And then pay to build additions to high schools and then have to end up back in a position to have to build another HS again when the additions aren't enough. For people who are so angry over the Fr. Campus situation there is sure alot of eagerness to make the same mistake all over again....

[charmant]

that they go to middle school in a building with none of the necessary elements available to make it a middle school. Why would we spend millions of dollars to change an elementary school into a middle school when we might end up back in the situation where we need to build another elementary school in the south when all is said and done. And then pay to build additions to high schools and then have to end up back in a position to have to build another HS again when the additions aren't enough. For people who are so angry over the Fr. Campus situation there is sure alot of eagerness to make the same mistake all over again....

That seems to be the plan du jour for Dist 204. I would rather piece meal as we have been doing for years than overbuild with bricks instead of concentrating on dollars for a good education for ALL students. Buildings come and go, education lasts a lifetime.