Pipeline BTUs

[wvhsparent]

Fair enough. I hold the view that the potential for an event is so small to be insignificant, bordering on never.
Your view is that it is a certainty to occur.

We are going to just agree to disagree on this.
My responses are for the rest of the viewers so that they can make up their own minds.

[Arch]

wvhsparent said:

Fair enough. I hold the view that the potential for an event is so small to be insignificant, bordering on never.
Your view is that it is a certainty to occur.

We are going to just agree to disagree on this.
My responses are for the rest of the viewers so that they can make up their own minds.

'Certainty' is your word. I follow the motto of 'be prepared'.

[steckdad]

"I agree - let them do their jobs - turn the site over to the IEPA voluntary program and let them actually certify this land is safe ( if they can ) -

Todd DePaul and the SB are not environmental experts"[/color]

maybe when they actually own the property they will enroll.

"Nice sensationalism that you added in there that I never said.

I never claimed pipes explode often nor neighborhoods are filled with zombies.

If all you have to add are straw-man arguments, then keep at it. We could all use more humor about now."

Arch-the zombie line was exactly that........... humorous but I think you got the gist of my post. I did not post about explosions in texas and the rest......

[Arch]

steckdad said:

"I agree - let them do their jobs - turn the site over to the IEPA voluntary program and let them actually certify this land is safe ( if they can ) -

Todd DePaul and the SB are not environmental experts"

[/color]

maybe when they actually own the property they will enroll.

"Nice sensationalism that you added in there that I never said.

I never claimed pipes explode often nor neighborhoods are filled with zombies.

If all you have to add are straw-man arguments, then keep at it. We could all use more humor about now."

Arch-the zombie line was exactly that........... humorous but I think you got the gist of my post. I did not post about explosions in texas and the rest......
[/quote]

I post actual accidents to show that they do indeed happen, even if the odds are stacked extremely against it. The NTSB has a whole categorical section on these statistically improbable occurrences. The fact is they do happen, they are virtually impossible to predict and the only real safeguard against death and damage when they do occur is DISTANCE. Stand-Off distance is the key to this.

We are choosing to build a school INSIDE that stand-off distance where damage to property and life are most probable to occur in the event of an accident. That's the very nature of a High Consequence Area and the Potential Impact Radius.

In fact, we will be within half of the distance calculated to be a safe stand-off distance.

[doctorwho]

steckdad said:

"I agree - let them do their jobs - turn the site over to the IEPA voluntary program and let them actually certify this land is safe ( if they can ) -

Todd DePaul and the SB are not environmental experts"

[/color]

maybe when they actually own the property they will enroll.

"Nice sensationalism that you added in there that I never said.

I never claimed pipes explode often nor neighborhoods are filled with zombies.

If all you have to add are straw-man arguments, then keep at it. We could all use more humor about now."

Arch-the zombie line was exactly that........... humorous but I think you got the gist of my post. I did not post about explosions in texas and the rest......



[/quote]

the problem is if we own the land when we enroll - we then own the issues. I do not want to see a penny spent on construction until this has been checked to the nth degree since they poicked a site that has issues.

The land should be enrolled now- and when the IEPA certifies the safety - after checking for all issues - then proceed with land purchase. These are our tax dollars being bet on an outcome.

[concerned2]

I just wonder why MGWEN would not want to involve the IEPA. It is their call.

[doctorwho]

concerned2 said:

I just wonder why MGWEN would not want to involve the IEPA. It is their call.

gee, I don't know ?

why do I keep hearing P.T. Barnum's voice in my head ?

"The following is an excerpt from a Chicago Tribune article on August 29, 2005:
“A scathing letter to the Illinois Environmental Protection Agency from Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan's office documents more than 7,600 pollution violations since 1999 at six plants owned by Midwest Generation, including two in Chicago and three in the suburbs. Madigan's office, though, is accusing the EPA of skirting a "clear, absolute and nondiscretionary requirement of federal law."
The attorney general wants Chicago-based Midwest Generation to agree to clean up the aging plants, some of which were built five decades ago, before the EPA grants the company new air-pollution permits. "That these violations occurred is indisputable," Ann Alexander, Madigan's environmental counsel, wrote in an Aug. 1 letter to the EPA, a copy of which was obtained by the Tribune. "Principles of sound law enforcement do not generally counsel excusing violators because they deny the violations occurred, especially when their self-reported compliance data admits to thousands of violations," Alexander wrote.” Source: Chicago Tribune (IL) - August 29, 2005"

[Arch]

I'd still like an answer from the company on what happened with the 609 barrels of DFO that is a discrepancy from Jan 1993 to Feb 1993 that was not used to produce electricity but is reported by them to be deducted from their 'stocks'.

Some questions will always remain unanswered...

[steckdad]

doc and arch...got it.

doc....Do you think the current land owners are going to voluntarily enroll in the IEPA program before selling it? I think not.

arch...let's hope due diligence is taken on the property and we can get to posting about 204 sports and all day kindergarten....

[WeBe204]

steckdad said:

doc and arch...got it.

doc....Do you think the current land owners are going to voluntarily enroll in the IEPA program before selling it? I think not.

arch...let's hope due diligence is taken on the property and we can get to posting about 204 sports and all day kindergarten....

I do believe it is easy to come on board during this phase in the process and take easy pot shots. Taking risks and standing outside the herd is not easy. Joining the herd once it is running is very easy.

As we move forward, I think we all need to remember there are people (including myself) who will continue to question the process. I think that is okay. If we are moving forward, keep in mind elections are not that far off and the operational referendum is not that far after that. The hammer mentality should stop here.

If I had to vote today, I would vote no to ALL incumbents and no to the referendum. I do actually believe I am a moderate who benefited from the new location selection. So, spare me any easy labeling.

I am deeply appreciative of the efforts of Arch and the Doctor to present a different side. That is why I continue to stay here as a moderator.

As taxpayer, I am also still concerned about:

1. Brach Brodie Trust Legal Fees and Damages
2. Selling the remaining BB land
3. NSFOC lawsuit

And I will add a new one:
4. Recreating trust within the ENTIRE district


I truly believe these are valid concerns. Please celebrate this Monday milestone. Once the shine wears off there are still real issues to discuss.

[doctorwho]

steckdad said:

doc and arch...got it.

doc....Do you think the current land owners are going to voluntarily enroll in the IEPA program before selling it? I think not.

arch...let's hope due diligence is taken on the property and we can get to posting about 204 sports and all day kindergarten....

absolutely not, and regardless of what the papers say was the only holdup, I have to believe this was a topic of conversation between the parties. If I was MWGEN and someone was willing to take the property and not make me sign up for the IEPA 6-24 month program. I would take my check and run. Remember they can always say later ( and it is true) they did not seek to sell us the land - we requested it


due diligence would be to have the IEPA issue the nfr letter before we start spending our money...that will not be done.


I wish I could be worried about the other topics - but for me - because of this decision 204 sports will not matter -- I'll let someone else pick up that ball and run with it so that our current 8th graders don't get screwed until they are juniors. Hell they won't even have a gym most if not all of sophomore year. Someone else can run with that torch - and I wish you well...it's not fair to those kids and it is NOT a full and equitable HS experience they will be getting in 2009. I feel badly for them.

[Arch]

steckdad said:

doc and arch...got it.

doc....Do you think the current land owners are going to voluntarily enroll in the IEPA program before selling it? I think not.

arch...let's hope due diligence is taken on the property and we can get to posting about 204 sports and all day kindergarten....

Sports: My kids aren't in them. Next.

ADK: My youngest is in 3rd grade, but from the teachers and support staff I have spoken to off the record they are LOATHING the pending Fall because of the space crunch it will create and the overburdening of the already shoe-string support staff.

Watch the employment exodus at the ES level with the lower paid employees. I know many who decided to say "After this year, I'm done. No way am I taking on 20% more work for $2.50 more gross pay per day next year"

What else do you want to talk about either?

[doctorwho]

brad204 said:

steckdad said:

doc and arch...got it.

doc....Do you think the current land owners are going to voluntarily enroll in the IEPA program before selling it? I think not.

arch...let's hope due diligence is taken on the property and we can get to posting about 204 sports and all day kindergarten....

I do believe it is easy to come on board during this phase in the process and take easy pot shots. Taking risks and standing outside the herd is not easy. Joining the herd once it is running is very easy.

As we move forward, I think we all need to remember there are people (including myself) who will continue to question the process. I think that is okay. If we are moving forward, keep in mind elections are not that far off and the operational referendum is not that far after that. The hammer mentality should stop here.

If I had to vote today, I would vote no to ALL incumbents and no to the referendum. I do actually believe I am a moderate who benefited from the new location selection. So, spare me any easy labeling.

I am deeply appreciative of the efforts of Arch and the Doctor to present a different side. That is why I continue to stay here as a moderator.

As taxpayer, I am also still concerned about:

1. Brach Brodie Trust Legal Fees and Damages
2. Selling the remaining BB land
3. NSFOC lawsuit

And I will add a new one:
4. Recreating trust within the ENTIRE district


I truly believe these are valid concerns. Please celebrate this Monday milestone. Once the shine wears off there are still real issues to discuss.

I too will continue to stand beside Arch and Brad and many others here as they move the fight forward. I am a taxpayer and resident here, and will have to live with the future $ implications as well as the totally divided community.

Also steckdad, I am willing to bet when I was putting in 20 + hours a week for 2+ years to get a referendum passed, you were not investing anywhere near as much time. I also know what I heard I was working for - first hand from the players involved - and that is not what turned out. I have to live with neighbors who feel I mislead them. I have a vested emotional interest in what happened here... and it is wrong.
I also have friends not as fortunate as my situation who will end up having to send their children to that site, I will be praying for their safety. We already know they are getting screwed from a HS experience for 1/2 their HS life, and for some areas the parents and kids both get the shaft on top of that commute and involvemnt wise. But hey some get exactly what they want, and that is all that matters.

But I expect no less than gloating next week ( to go along with the sit up and shut down talks we already get) - and I told you so's ( like anyone knows at this point) - I also get to deal with 2 neighbors who have already listed their homes to move their children...( including my daughters best friend)- and a number more who are considering the same, and Monday ought to be the trigger for that. But hey, I raead it's only a handful of folks from 2 areas, whereas everyone else who breath's is the 'siltent majority'. So pardon me if I am not celebrating with everyone else next Monday...


The next round of elections and referendums ( and that will comes sooner depedning on the BB $ settlements and additional costs to open a shell of a HS in Fall '09) should be very interesting

[specailneedsmom]

Arch,

You are right. Speaking from someone who has substituted in this district for five years I can tell you this is absolutely true. For the amount of money you are paid and the level of responsibility you have it is just not worth it. Each year they cut, cut cut at every level but administration. That leaves the teachers to run their classrooms with a shoestring staff. But this district continues to identify the problem as the $10.00 an hour employees who work their buns off. In order to fix the problem they will hire another six figure administrator to identify the problem. Oy vey.

[doctorwho]

doctorwho said:

steckdad said:

doc and arch...got it.

doc....Do you think the current land owners are going to voluntarily enroll in the IEPA program before selling it? I think not.

arch...let's hope due diligence is taken on the property and we can get to posting about 204 sports and all day kindergarten....

absolutely not, and regardless of what the papers say was the only holdup, I have to believe this was a topic of conversation between the parties. If I was MWGEN and someone was willing to take the property and not make me sign up for the IEPA 6-24 month program. I would take my check and run. Remember they can always say later ( and it is true) they did not seek to sell us the land - we requested it


due diligence would be to have the IEPA issue the nfr letter before we start spending our money...that will not be done.


btw steckdad, by your moniker, I assume your child will not be requested to attend there...you might feel differently if that was the case. Some are attracted by a shiney new shool - regardless, I don't think that applies to anyone in your area.


I wish I could be worried about the other topics - but for me - because of this decision 204 sports will not matter -- I'll let someone else pick up that ball and run with it so that our current 8th graders don't get screwed until they are juniors. Hell they won't even have a gym most if not all of sophomore year. Someone else can run with that torch - and I wish you well...it's not fair to those kids and it is NOT a full and equitable HS experience they will be getting in 2009. I feel badly for them.