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Post by Arch on Apr 1, 2008 1:15:01 GMT -6
Finally, this is what I have been looking for (from a 9/27/05 energy industry article):
"When the gas flows at 30-ft/sec in a 36-inch diameter pipe, the mass flow rate of 653-lb/sec carries a combustion heating value of over 14,000,000-BTU's over a 1-hour period or 19,860,000-Hp."
That is 233,000 BTUs per minute or roughly 3,888 BTUs per second for the one pipe.
Now, from there we can calculate the total heat value in the 36" lines and the 20" line and start to compute a worst-case damage assessment for life and property with respect to their distance to the building and the damage that amount of heat can do. I'll leave the pressure wave portion out until I can find actual data from the NTSB from previous 'incidents'.
Does anyone know exactly where these "Auto-Shutoff" valves are supposedly located on each line with respect to the property? Knowing that we can also begin to calculate how much gas would be in the lines to burn in the event of a breach/explosion before those valves kicking in to stop the flow.
Since the School Board and Administration did not see fit to do this exercise when asked, I suppose it's up to us, the public, to do it.
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Post by steckmom on Apr 1, 2008 7:29:14 GMT -6
Since the School Board and Administration did not see fit to do this exercise when asked, I suppose it's up to us, the public, to do it. No, I think we're just supposed to take their word for it, like everything else. What the SB has essentially said, "Trust us, we think you're a bunch of entitled, selfish thingys, but trust us." Yes, I wrote thingys on purpose. It's my new polite, all purpose naughty word. |
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Post by gman413 on Apr 1, 2008 8:14:53 GMT -6
Finally, this is what I have been looking for (from a 9/27/05 energy industry article): "When the gas flows at 30-ft/sec in a 36-inch diameter pipe, the mass flow rate of 653-lb/sec carries a combustion heating value of over 14,000,000-BTU's over a 1-hour period or 19,860,000-Hp." That is 233,000 BTUs per minute or roughly 3,888 BTUs per second for the one pipe. Now, from there we can calculate the total heat value in the 36" lines and the 20" line and start to compute a worst-case damage assessment for life and property with respect to their distance to the building and the damage that amount of heat can do. I'll leave the pressure wave portion out until I can find actual data from the NTSB from previous 'incidents'. Does anyone know exactly where these "Auto-Shutoff" valves are supposedly located on each line with respect to the property? Knowing that we can also begin to calculate how much gas would be in the lines to burn in the event of a breach/explosion before those valves kicking in to stop the flow. Since the School Board and Administration did not see fit to do this exercise when asked, I suppose it's up to us, the public, to do it. This could be a good exercise for any science or math teacher slotted for MV since they'd have a vested interest in an accurate calculation? |
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Post by jftb on Apr 1, 2008 8:24:21 GMT -6
Finally, this is what I have been looking for (from a 9/27/05 energy industry article): "When the gas flows at 30-ft/sec in a 36-inch diameter pipe, the mass flow rate of 653-lb/sec carries a combustion heating value of over 14,000,000-BTU's over a 1-hour period or 19,860,000-Hp." That is 233,000 BTUs per minute or roughly 3,888 BTUs per second for the one pipe. Now, from there we can calculate the total heat value in the 36" lines and the 20" line and start to compute a worst-case damage assessment for life and property with respect to their distance to the building and the damage that amount of heat can do. I'll leave the pressure wave portion out until I can find actual data from the NTSB from previous 'incidents'. Does anyone know exactly where these "Auto-Shutoff" valves are supposedly located on each line with respect to the property? Knowing that we can also begin to calculate how much gas would be in the lines to burn in the event of a breach/explosion before those valves kicking in to stop the flow. Since the School Board and Administration did not see fit to do this exercise when asked, I suppose it's up to us, the public, to do it. I just wanted to say thanks to Arch for all the investigative work. You have been so helpful! |
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Post by wvhsparent on Apr 1, 2008 9:23:06 GMT -6
Good work arch. can't wait to see your calculations.
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Post by Arch on Apr 1, 2008 9:46:25 GMT -6
Good work arch. can't wait to see your calculations. And likewise, I can not wait to hear how that much heat is benign or even healthy for the human body. |
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Post by wvhsparent on Apr 1, 2008 11:02:04 GMT -6
Good work arch. can't wait to see your calculations. And likewise, I can not wait to hear how that much heat is benign or even healthy for the human body. I will try not to dissapoint |
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Post by Arch on Apr 1, 2008 11:36:41 GMT -6
And likewise, I can not wait to hear how that much heat is benign or even healthy for the human body. I will try not to dissapoint In the meantime, you can read about Mitigation and best practices with regards to hazards such as dams, high pressure pipelines and even earthquake faults: www.fema.gov/mitigationbp/bestPracticeDetail.do?mitssId=785 |
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Post by Arch on Apr 1, 2008 14:06:04 GMT -6
2 Birds with one stone. Someone already did some math like this. winsome.cnchost.com/pipeline/Kiefner-Final-Report-06-45.pdfHeat damage thresholds for a 24inch pipe as well as TNT equivalent chart for various pipe sizes. (Table 3 and also Appendix C) This was for a compressor station but went into the effects and consequences and safety distances in case of pipeline failure. The PIR for the 24 inch line is 624 feet. The actual math formula is in the document. Since a 36 inch line carries more gas than a 24 inch line, we can safely assume the PIR for a 36 inch line is greater than 624 feet. Add the fact that there are multiple lines and we have an even greater PIR. Factor in the explosive force of TNT and we can safely say there will be damage to the building and death on the athletic fields in the event of a failure because the building is going to be 200-300 feet from the pipes, according to the school board. Spontaneous ignition of fiberboard will still happen at 344 feet on a 24 inch gas line. Imagine what that does to any child unfortunate enough to be outside or inside the building facing the lines. This is what we are buying folks. This is what people want us to build next to. |
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Post by steckdad on Apr 1, 2008 20:37:21 GMT -6
arch .....I have been lurking here for about a month. first of all I want to commend you on all the investigative work you have done. We all want a safe HS for 204.
but......Based on your posts, stonebridge and cambridge chase are bothered with constant explosions and cancer ridden zombies in their neighborhoods on a daily basis....
I know I stand be roasted by this group, but let the environmental EXPERTS do their jobs...and stop the conspiracy theories and fear mongering.
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Post by rural on Apr 1, 2008 20:40:24 GMT -6
Hey, weren't we supposed to be breaking ground today?
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Post by WeBe204 on Apr 1, 2008 20:41:45 GMT -6
Actually, I saw Dash and MM out there with shovels. (Still April fooling)
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Post by rural on Apr 1, 2008 20:42:48 GMT -6
No, no, that was nsfoc taking soil samples.  |
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Post by rural on Apr 1, 2008 20:55:06 GMT -6
At this point, whether anyone likes it or not, the school is being built there. It's moving forward.
There are no cold feet on MWGEN's part.
They are moving forward.
The SB has no qualms after hearing the professionals' opinions about enviro.
As stated in the paper, they are moving forward.
Nsfoc is an impotent group at this point, unless they can come up with the bond funds for a TRO. The group can do nothing to stop the SB from moving forward.
So, unless SuperArch can somehow negotiate a deal with BB for the school district before the closing with AME/MWGEN, this will be our new school site.
We will have to work TOGETHER as a cohesive group to make sure that the SB and Administration do everything within their power to make sure this site is safe and stays that way.
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Post by WeBe204 on Apr 1, 2008 21:00:00 GMT -6
At this point, whether anyone likes it or not, the school is being built there. It's moving forward. There are no cold feet on MWGEN's part. They are moving forward. The SB has no qualms after hearing the professionals' opinions about enviro. As stated in the paper, they are moving forward. Nsfoc is an impotent group at this point, unless they can come up with the bond funds for a TRO. The group can do nothing to stop the SB from moving forward. So, unless SuperArch can somehow negotiate a deal with BB for the school district before the closing with AME/MWGEN, this will be our new school site. We will have to work TOGETHER as a cohesive group to make sure that the SB and Administration do everything within their power to make sure this site is safe and stays that way. Oh rural you do not know anymore than anyone else. Stop stoking the fires  |
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