Disappointment - Cont'd

[jwh]

archwinsome said:

thebeefeater said:

However, IMO, Fry and Watts are not being dumped on. It's not your first choice, but you are not getting the short end of the stick from every possible angle.

To my friends at Owen, You are getting the Brookdale deal in these boundaries. I really hope they find a solution for you.

If any of these areas were getting the 'Brookdale deal' in the boundaries they would be left at their ORIGINAL HS, Just like Brookdale was.

Brookdale was getting no further distance/time added to their HS commute. Nothing in that regard was changing for them.

Your apples to apples is really apples to tripe.

Wrong. No one is being made a total geographic island as Brookdale was in the last boundaries. Go print both maps and put them side to side. Then laugh.

[d204mom]

jwh said:

thebeefeater said:

IMO, CB thought the most important thing for the district was a new school. As such, he voted on the boundaries that he felt would have the best chance of helping the referendum pass. Regardless of the fact that it forced his neighborhood To be...

1. On an attendance island
2. Split from their middle school
3. Longest commute in the district (driving right past the new HS to get to WVHS) (6+ miles)

They were asking this of the 5th worst performing ES in the district. The island is even more significant because the ES is the 2nd or 3rd smallest. It is also one of the title 1 schools in the district.

Seems to me that doing all this to his neighbors to get the referendum approved (because "he HAD to get the VOTES"), which he believed was in the best interest of the district was a pretty selfless act.

Amen Beefeater. CB is a bigger man than most to have done that.

Well then we have one on the school board. Let's see what he does on Tuesday.

[Arch]

thebeefeater said:

archwinsome said:

So you admit that you were wrong when you said Brookdale was going to travel to the farthest school.

At least we are in agreement there, even under the old boundaries, they were not and your statement was false.

Yes, not the farthest HS, WVHS is 0.5 miles closer than NVHS and 1.5 miles further than BB.

Now let me ask you a question. What would you have felt if the school was going in at BB and you stayed at WVHS, but Colishaw, Longwood, Owen and Brookdale were all going to the new school. Tell me you would have supported the referendum, I dare you.

I supported the referendum along with 1 out of 5 of my neighbors.

Your commute to the new school is 5.7 miles. You are not on geographic attendance island you are not being split from you neighbors, you do not have a commute in excess of 6 miles. you are going to a beautiful new school. What is your beef. Give it to me, I am afterall thebeefeater.

I would have supported it. I already have a kid there and love the place. I would have happily kept doing what I do today and waved to the left as I passed BB while traveling down Ogden to our school.

I have specific issue with MWGEN site due to the hazards. You know, those benign things that don't have accidents like yesterday in Texas? Luckily, no school structure was around that as it burned for hours.

[thebeefeater]

archwinsome said:

jwh said:

Amen Beefeater. CB is a bigger man than most to have done that.

I agree, his vote was admirable even though his neighbors were quite angry and came out to the tune of 4:1 to attempt to sink the entire referendum.

OK, so 1 out of 4 voted YES to the referendum. I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Fry that support these boundaries. I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Watts that support these boundaries, I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Owen that support these boundaries.

As far as I am concerned the BD people were overwhelmingly positive given the fact that I hear 0% of the people from these areas in support of the boundaries. Even though, they are not getting the short end of the stick from all angles.

[Arch]

jwh said:

archwinsome said:

If any of these areas were getting the 'Brookdale deal' in the boundaries they would be left at their ORIGINAL HS, Just like Brookdale was.

Brookdale was getting no further distance/time added to their HS commute. Nothing in that regard was changing for them.

Your apples to apples is really apples to tripe.

Wrong. No one is being made a total geographic island as Brookdale was in the last boundaries. Go print both maps and put them side to side. Then laugh.

Now we're shifting it to 'islands' in a boundary scenerio that never happened?

In other words, you are now arguing what isn't, correct ?

FWIW, I would have liked Brookdale to go to MV@BB but it's a scenerio that never happened... and you still want to argue it? Ok. When you want to come forward 2 years, let us know.

[d204mom]

thebeefeater said:

momof156graders said:

No - the bus route for my personal neighborhood stopis now a 3 MIN RETURN time.
Route #: NVH229 NVHS Outbound (NVHS to Rollingridge and Junebreeze) To School depending which corner they stand on - several choices within 1/2 block the longest choice is 12 min.
Route #: NVH019 NVHS Inbound
So no - my commute time is not increasing by 4 minutes. It is increasing 10 fold! So yes, I take issue with that.

And what say you about the average bus time? 29 minutes now and 33 minutes to WVHS?

I'd say those bus times are a crock just like the bridge letter.

[d204mom]

thebeefeater said:

archwinsome said:

OK, so 1 out of 4 voted YES to the referendum. I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Fry that support these boundaries. I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Watts that support these boundaries, I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Owen that support these boundaries.

It took some doing but the DH found some of these extreme minority opinions to publish in the paper. Someone must have pointed them in the right direction. Wonder who that coulda been?

Farther east, an Owen family has no concerns that they would have the longest bus ride -- about 35 minutes -- to Metea Valley.

Angie Gaul said she and her children are "excited" about being able to open a new high school.

Her eighth-grader would be a sophomore going into Metea in 2009. She also has children in third and sixth grades.

"A new school means new opportunities and experiences and that's important," she said. "My two older kids have talked about friends they would move on with and friends they would leave behind, but they'll figure that out in time."

------------------
Oh, and by the way, Owen, Watts, Cow, Fry & Peterson aren't saying NO to a 3rd high school. They are saying find a way for more equitable boundaries. So I don't see the similarity between the Brookdale NO vote and today's conversation.

[sleeplessinnpvl]

204family said:

Fry will have the second longest commute in the district. I don't care how many maps you send me.

The only reason we're still at our MS and ES is b/c they're in our subdivision...I don't owe a vote of thanks to the SB for that. Frankly, I've been patting myself on the back for that one. In the end, they still kicked us a litte at the MS level, but others got it worse.

Maybe that's why the SB feels they can slight you at the HS level. I don't know. But that fact is reality for you guys--you do have two close schools for 9 years. And that makes me feel more for Petersen. I guess Crone wasn't really in their back yards so they get a hike to HS and MS.

Also Fry folks, I find it hard to believe you are really going to be the second longest commute. I really think Watts will be longer than you as well. Maybe if you complained about your commute time, the good ol' district would add a few more busses to your subdivision to "decrease the time". Come on, the Petersen folks at 111th? I know there is a section of Petersen that is north of 95th Street. The only reason that the Petersen community has such a short projected travel time of 29 minutes now is because there are only 12 students in those subdivisions for the busses to even pick up. That will change down the road. The only reasonable chance you have of decreasing your commute time is to get Welch out of NV. Then you are switching similar travel times. But IMO you aren't making things any better as I don't see Welch's travel times being much less than yours. But if you want to fight it, you have every right to. I don't believe one single travel time on that new memo. Someone was playing darts and every time they hit a number, they just assigned it to a random school. If you believe this memo, then all of our kids will be sitting on a bus for at least 20 minutes on average so we can all add 40 minutes on to our current bus rides now. So you are really only 20 minutes more than everyone else per day. Oh, how I long for BB. The only people that win with this new proposal is Brookdale, Longwood and Brooks. Everyone else is screwed.

[thebeefeater]

sleeplessinnpvl said:

204family said:

Fry will have the second longest commute in the district. I don't care how many maps you send me.

The only reason we're still at our MS and ES is b/c they're in our subdivision...I don't owe a vote of thanks to the SB for that. Frankly, I've been patting myself on the back for that one. In the end, they still kicked us a litte at the MS level, but others got it worse.

Maybe that's why the SB feels they can slight you at the HS level. I don't know. But that fact is reality for you guys--you do have two close schools for 9 years. And that makes me feel more for Petersen. I guess Crone wasn't really in their back yards so they get a hike to HS and MS.

Also Fry folks, I find it hard to believe you are really going to be the second longest commute. I really think Watts will be longer than you as well. Maybe if you complained about your commute time, the good ol' district would add a few more busses to your subdivision to "decrease the time". Come on, the Petersen folks at 111th? I know there is a section of Petersen that is north of 95th Street. The only reason that the Petersen community has such a short projected travel time of 29 minutes now is because there are only 12 students in those subdivisions for the busses to even pick up. That will change down the road. The only reasonable chance you have of decreasing your commute time is to get Welch out of NV. Then you are switching similar travel times. But IMO you aren't making things any better as I don't see Welch's travel times being much less than yours. But if you want to fight it, you have every right to. I don't believe one single travel time on that new memo. Someone was playing darts and every time they hit a number, they just assigned it to a random school. If you believe this memo, then all of our kids will be sitting on a bus for at least 20 minutes on average so we can all add 40 minutes on to our current bus rides now. So you are really only 20 minutes more than everyone else per day. Oh, how I long for BB. The only people that win with this new proposal is Brookdale, Longwood and Brooks. Everyone else is screwed.

What? If by "everyone else is screwed" you mean that we have a third HS that will allow for smaller schools with more opportunities for our children then you need a new definition of "screwed"

BTW Longwood is not happy about being removed from Hill. It is right across 59 from their ES. Even closer than Fry is to NV.

Did you fee screwed at BB? Your commute is no different there than WVHS, what is new?

[sleeplessinnpvl]

thebeefeater said:

sleeplessinnpvl said:

Maybe that's why the SB feels they can slight you at the HS level. I don't know. But that fact is reality for you guys--you do have two close schools for 9 years. And that makes me feel more for Petersen. I guess Crone wasn't really in their back yards so they get a hike to HS and MS.

Also Fry folks, I find it hard to believe you are really going to be the second longest commute. I really think Watts will be longer than you as well. Maybe if you complained about your commute time, the good ol' district would add a few more busses to your subdivision to "decrease the time". Come on, the Petersen folks at 111th? I know there is a section of Petersen that is north of 95th Street. The only reason that the Petersen community has such a short projected travel time of 29 minutes now is because there are only 12 students in those subdivisions for the busses to even pick up. That will change down the road. The only reasonable chance you have of decreasing your commute time is to get Welch out of NV. Then you are switching similar travel times. But IMO you aren't making things any better as I don't see Welch's travel times being much less than yours. But if you want to fight it, you have every right to. I don't believe one single travel time on that new memo. Someone was playing darts and every time they hit a number, they just assigned it to a random school. If you believe this memo, then all of our kids will be sitting on a bus for at least 20 minutes on average so we can all add 40 minutes on to our current bus rides now. So you are really only 20 minutes more than everyone else per day. Oh, how I long for BB. The only people that win with this new proposal is Brookdale, Longwood and Brooks. Everyone else is screwed.

What? If by "everyone else is screwed" you mean that we have a third HS that will allow for smaller schools with more opportunities for our children then you need a new definition of "screwed"

BTW Longwood is not happy about being removed from Hill. It is right across 59 from their ES. Even closer than Fry is to NV.

Did you fee screwed at BB? Your commute is no different there than WVHS, what is new?

All I am saying is that it seems that of all the people that were pulled out to go to MV @ BB, only Longwood and Brookdale are benefitting from decreased travel times. It seems like everyone else (Watts, Cowl, Fry, Owen etc.) have increased travel times. Although IMO Fry's travel time will not be increased by much more than it would have been at BB. I know, I know. I can hear the Fry folks saying that that BB boundaries don't matter anymore and should be off the table. But this new boundary plan very much brings proposal 5A back in play as the affected schools ARE the ones that are being pulled out again. It's a fact many would like to ignore but very true. This is why these schools feel screwed. It's easier to screw Owen than to mess with McCarty and Steck. It's easier to screw Fry than to mess with Welch. I can't speak for why the board did what they did, but I think that is why Fry is where they are today. It wasn't much different than what they had "signed up for" in the 2006 vote. Whether they liked the BB boundaries or not, that is what you had signed up for. I think the board figured life wouldn't be that much different for you guys. I know they can't use that logic with the Owens and Watts folks though.

[doctorwho]

thebeefeater said:

thebeefeater said:

IMO, CB thought the most important thing for the district was a new school. As such, he voted on the boundaries that he felt would have the best chance of helping the referendum pass. Regardless of the fact that it forced his neighborhood To be...

1. On an attendance island
2. Split from their middle school
3. Longest commute in the district (driving right past the new HS to get to WVHS) (6+ miles)

They were asking this of the 5th worst performing ES in the district. The island is even more significant because the ES is the 2nd or 3rd smallest. It is also one of the title 1 schools in the district.

Seems to me that doing all this to his neighbors to get the referendum approved (because "he HAD to get the VOTES"), which he believed was in the best interest of the district was a pretty selfless act.

Just to keep beating my drum.

To my friends at Fry,

1. You are not on an attendence island (you attend with your geographic neighbors).
2. You are being split from your MS of which you are half the population (IMO, If we are going to have splits, this is the best case scenario that half of the school goes together)
3. You are not being asked to have an overly long commute. (Only 3.8 miles) tinyurl.com/2gn5jq

You are being asked to move away from a very close school and for that I do feel for you. Unfortunately, the other options place much more pain on another area.

To my friends at Watts

1. You are not on an attendence island
2. You are not being split from your MS
3. You are going to a beautiful new HS

You are being asked to travel 5.7 miles (http://tinyurl.com/3c5b9j) to the third closest HS and for that I do feel for you.

However, IMO, Fry and Watts are not being dumped on. It's not your first choice, but you are not getting the short end of the stick from every possible angle.

To my friends at Owen, You are getting the Brookdale deal in these boundaries. I really hope they find a solution for you.

1. no we are not an island - we will be sent with some of our neighbors to the furthest school from our house
2. we could care less- the MS is the 3rd furthest from our home - a fact you conveniently leave out time and time again -
3/ no one here gives a rip about the shiny new HS-- that seems to be an issue for some - in some areas- it never was for us


and stop with the GPS maps when you have people in Brookdale driving past BB to get to WVHS - that's a load. There would NEVER have been a reason to drive past BB to get to WVHS and you know it

[204family]

We're all spliting hairs at this point...minutes...miles. It just sucks. I'm tuning out today. These boards are making my head spin. Regardless, it was nice to learn more about all of your schools and areas. You can spin all of this how you want, but in the end of the day we have a great group of intense parents. We probably spend more time thinking about our kids and their schools in one day than most do in one year. Kudos to you all. We'll see how things shake out at the next meeting.

[doctorwho]

d204mom said:

thebeefeater said:

archwinsome said:

OK, so 1 out of 4 voted YES to the referendum. I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Fry that support these boundaries. I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Watts that support these boundaries, I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Owen that support these boundaries.

It took some doing but the DH found some of these extreme minority opinions to publish in the paper. Someone must have pointed them in the right direction. Wonder who that coulda been?

Farther east, an Owen family has no concerns that they would have the longest bus ride -- about 35 minutes -- to Metea Valley.

Angie Gaul said she and her children are "excited" about being able to open a new high school.

Her eighth-grader would be a sophomore going into Metea in 2009. She also has children in third and sixth grades.

"A new school means new opportunities and experiences and that's important," she said. "My two older kids have talked about friends they would move on with and friends they would leave behind, but they'll figure that out in time."

------------------
Oh, and by the way, Owen, Watts, Cow, Fry & Peterson aren't saying NO to a 3rd high school. They are saying find a way for more equitable boundaries. So I don't see the similarity between the Brookdale NO vote and today's conversation.

btw - if quoted correctly - as some people weren't - that Owen family is from Meadowlake in Owen West -not East

[doctorwho]

archwinsome said:

thebeefeater said:

Yes, not the farthest HS, WVHS is 0.5 miles closer than NVHS and 1.5 miles further than BB.

Now let me ask you a question. What would you have felt if the school was going in at BB and you stayed at WVHS, but Colishaw, Longwood, Owen and Brookdale were all going to the new school. Tell me you would have supported the referendum, I dare you.

I supported the referendum along with 1 out of 5 of my neighbors.

Your commute to the new school is 5.7 miles. You are not on geographic attendance island you are not being split from you neighbors, you do not have a commute in excess of 6 miles. you are going to a beautiful new school. What is your beef. Give it to me, I am afterall thebeefeater.

I would have supported it. I already have a kid there and love the place. I would have happily kept doing what I do today and waved to the left as I passed BB while traveling down Ogden to our school.

I have specific issue with MWGEN site due to the hazards. You know, those benign things that don't have accidents like yesterday in Texas? Luckily, no school structure was around that as it burned for hours.

There were boundary plans that had us at WVHS also - no issue here either -- there was no ground swell here for the shiny new school-- no one here jealous of NV either . This was not a May Watts issue so ets not try and make it one with revisionalism now

[wolverine]

d204mom said:

thebeefeater said:

archwinsome said:

OK, so 1 out of 4 voted YES to the referendum. I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Fry that support these boundaries. I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Watts that support these boundaries, I want to hear from the 1 out of 4 at Owen that support these boundaries.

It took some doing but the DH found some of these extreme minority opinions to publish in the paper. Someone must have pointed them in the right direction. Wonder who that coulda been?

Farther east, an Owen family has no concerns that they would have the longest bus ride -- about 35 minutes -- to Metea Valley.

Angie Gaul said she and her children are "excited" about being able to open a new high school.

Her eighth-grader would be a sophomore going into Metea in 2009. She also has children in third and sixth grades.

"A new school means new opportunities and experiences and that's important," she said. "My two older kids have talked about friends they would move on with and friends they would leave behind, but they'll figure that out in time."

------------------
Oh, and by the way, Owen, Watts, Cow, Fry & Peterson aren't saying NO to a 3rd high school. They are saying find a way for more equitable boundaries. So I don't see the similarity between the Brookdale NO vote and today's conversation.

She's right. We still believe that the district needs a third HS - little arguement on that. Many people I know think the current location is bad for the district. Most are upset we're being shuttled cross district.