WV Girls Soccer Wins SuperSectional!

[doctorwho]

gatormom said:

jenrik2714 said:

I think the club system is unfair. It only benefits a certain group of athletes.

Playing for the Chicago Public league growing up, our parents couldn't afford to pay for clubs. Only a select few had the opportunity. I am glad college recruiters are fessing up and looking at Chicago players.

Why should economics dictate talent?

Jenrik, at some point we have to let go of the "everybody plays" that our recreational systems employ. The high school teams are built on a competitive system of selecting the best players for the team.

It is unfortunate that many cannot afford the club systems; however, I do believe that at least some sports offer scholarships. When my son was in club gymnastics, there were limited scholarships for exceptionally talented gymnasts who could not afford to pay the cost.

that is what intramurals are for -- and one has to stop assuming that all kids that get private lessons / play club etc do som because their parents have gobs of money sitting around and nowhere to put it and don't sacrifice something else to do so- trust me that is not true.

[jenrik2714]

I am NOT painting kids in clubs as elitist. I think it should be a level playing field. I believe you did what you had to do to get your child competive. Was it worth it? Is she going to turn pro?

I am saying, why do parents have to go thru financial strain to get this far?

You mean I have to start my 6 month old infant daughter in some club just to get her ready?

[jenrik2714]

doctorwho said:

gatormom said:

Jenrik, at some point we have to let go of the "everybody plays" that our recreational systems employ. The high school teams are built on a competitive system of selecting the best players for the team.

It is unfortunate that many cannot afford the club systems; however, I do believe that at least some sports offer scholarships. When my son was in club gymnastics, there were limited scholarships for exceptionally talented gymnasts who could not afford to pay the cost.

that is what intramurals are for -- and one has to stop assuming that all kids that get private lessons / play club etc do som because their parents have gobs of money sitting around and nowhere to put it and don't sacrifice something else to do so- trust me that is not true.

They do out here.
I don't expect everyone to understand my point.

[doctorwho]

jenrik2714 said:

I am NOT painting kids in clubs as elitist. I think it should be a level playing field. I believe you did what you had to do to get your child competive. Was it worth it? Is she going to turn pro?

I am saying, why do parents have to go thru financial strain to get this far?

You mean I have to start my 6 month old infant daughter in some club just to get her ready?

I'll tell you why - my daughter received $90,000 of scholarship money I could never afford - and had her choice of 17 colleges she would not have been able to attend - she sacrificed a lot for that - as did I. It is a life choice and there are no guarantees regardless of how good an athlete you are. Also the life experiences are as they say priceless ( having traveled abroad to play also) - and now as a teacher will be qualified to coach school ball - which is a nice supplement to a starting teachers salary. Again, it is a life choice.

At the VB club my youngest plays for - all 50 girls on the top 5 18 year old teams last year were offered Div 1 scholarships. There is more money for college thru athletics than thru academics ( although you need to have the GPA also at almost all schools ) - that is why people sacrifice.

it has nothing to do with going pro.

I will find the NCAA stats I know I have saved.

it goes something like this. Less than 6% of kids ever make a varsity sports team in their high school. Less than 2% of them play NCAA sports -in womens basketball and volleyball ( the numbers I remember- I will get the rest) - and the odds of playing professional baseball - basketball etc. are miniscule --

But getting someone else to help with the education expenses - that is worth the sacrifice - and was worth the financial risks up front for me and many others.

[doctorwho]

jenrik2714 said:

doctorwho said:

that is what intramurals are for -- and one has to stop assuming that all kids that get private lessons / play club etc do som because their parents have gobs of money sitting around and nowhere to put it and don't sacrifice something else to do so- trust me that is not true.

They do out here.
I don't expect everyone to understand my point.

jenrik - that simply is not true. You can't paint everyone ' out here' with that broad brush. yes there are girls on our club team where their parents can afford anything - my hats off to them- I have no jealousy towards that. But I can tell you more than half the team - parents sacrifice to pay these expenses. More than one parent has a second job to pay for the expenses - so I get real tired of painting all club athletes and parents with this ' well they're rich brush" --

btw - there are club teams from our old areas also -- AAU basketball teams etc -- are they rich now ? I don't think so. Please do the research on this stuff before painting all club athetes - yes even OUT HERE - as spoiled rich kids.

That's why people don't understand the point.

[doctorwho]

Here's the chart I was looking for: Need skills well beyond just playing HS sports to move on.

www.ncaa.org/research/prob_of_competing/

Estimated Probability of Competing in Athletics Beyond the High School Interscholastic Level
Student Athletes Men's BB Women's BB Football Baseball Men's Hockey Men's Soccer
HS Student Athletes 546,335 452,929 1,071,775 470,671 36,263 358,935
HS Senior Student Athletes 156,096 129,408 306,221 134,477 10,361 102,553
NCAA Student Athletes 16,571 15,096 61,252 28,767 3,973 19,793
NCAA Freshman Roster Spots 4,735 4,313 17,501 8,219 1,135 5,655
NCAA Senior Student Athletes 3,682 3,355 13,612 6,393 883 4,398
NCAA Student Athletes Drafted 44 32 250 600 33 76
Percent High School to NCAA 3.0% 3.3% 5.7% 6.1% 11.0% 5.5%
Percent NCAA to Professional 1.2% 1.0% 1.8% 9.4% 3.7% 1.7%
Percent HS to Professional 0.03% 0.02% 0.08% 0.45% 0.32% 0.07%

[Arch]

One does not have to join a club or pay gobs of money to get good. Determination and desire is in the mind.

[gatordog]

archwinsome said:

One does not have to join a club or pay gobs of money to get good. Determination and desire is in the mind.

Arch, I will be happy to place a bet with you any time, any sport....

You take the team with determination and desire, i will take the team whose players have each had a few thousand dollars worth of annual training and have experience competeing against the best teams in this state and other states!

[doctorwho]

archwinsome said:

One does not have to join a club or pay gobs of money to get good. Determination and desire is in the mind.

True, there is a difference between good and scholarship good also--
-- I became a 7 handicap golfer by senior year of high school with out one lesson. ( wish I still was today- ). Nowhere good enough to play in college on someone else's dime, but good enough to make my varsity team for 3 years. Look at the chart I posted - most HS athletes do not have NCAA futures, but that doesn't mean they aren't good athletes.


And playing in a club means nothing unless you have the aforementioned determination and desire also - a club jacket gets you nothing, it is all skill dependent.

In other sports - especially team sports - training/playing with people of the same advanced skill level is crucial to success.

[southsidemom]

gatordog said:

archwinsome said:

One does not have to join a club or pay gobs of money to get good. Determination and desire is in the mind.

Arch, I will be happy to place a bet with you any time, any sport....

You take the team with determination and desire, i will take the team whose players have each had a few thousand dollars worth of annual training and have experience competeing against the best teams in this state and other states!

I agree with you Gatordog. Especially for sports such as golf, gymnastics and ice hockey. Just found out that gymnastics this year for my kids will run me close to $15K. My daughter can tumble all she wants in the living room with determination and desire, but without gym time and professional training she just won't be able to keep up. Personally I was not able to excel in golf until reaching adulthood because my parents simply could not afford sports such as that.

[Arch]

gatordog said:

archwinsome said:

One does not have to join a club or pay gobs of money to get good. Determination and desire is in the mind.

Arch, I will be happy to place a bet with you any time, any sport....

You take the team with determination and desire, i will take the team whose players have each had a few thousand dollars worth of annual training and have experience competeing against the best teams in this state and other states!

Are you actually trying to assert that unless you're in a club that you can't possibly be good?

Want to go play some soccer? I was never in a club. It should be an easy win for you.

[southsidemom]

doctorwho said:

archwinsome said:

One does not have to join a club or pay gobs of money to get good. Determination and desire is in the mind.

True, there is a difference between good and scholarship good also--
-- I became a 7 handicap golfer by senior year of high school with out one lesson. ( wish I still was today- ). Nowhere good enough to play in college on someone else's dime, but good enough to make my varsity team for 3 years. Look at the chart I posted - most HS athletes do not have NCAA futures, but that doesn't mean they aren't good athletes.


And playing in a club means nothing unless you have the aforementioned determination and desire also - a club jacket gets you nothing, it is all skill dependent.

In other sports - especially team sports - training/playing with people of the same advanced skill level is crucial to success.

We are looking into joining Cress Creek and the golf program for little children is quite extensive. My hat is off to your achievement of a 7 handicap (that is awesome), but to play golf costs out here. My husband's buddy that is a member says the guys are out daily with their sons and daughters as early as age 2. Can't go wrong with that by the age of 15 and ready to try out for high school team.

[gatordog]

southsidemom said:

My daughter can tumble all she wants in the living room with determination and desire, but without gym time and professional training she just won't be able to keep up...

So we here in upper-middle class suburbia have managed to put a price tag on determination and desire. Is this a great country or what!?

[doctorwho]

southsidemom said:

doctorwho said:

True, there is a difference between good and scholarship good also--
-- I became a 7 handicap golfer by senior year of high school with out one lesson. ( wish I still was today- ). Nowhere good enough to play in college on someone else's dime, but good enough to make my varsity team for 3 years. Look at the chart I posted - most HS athletes do not have NCAA futures, but that doesn't mean they aren't good athletes.


And playing in a club means nothing unless you have the aforementioned determination and desire also - a club jacket gets you nothing, it is all skill dependent.

In other sports - especially team sports - training/playing with people of the same advanced skill level is crucial to success.

We are looking into joining Cress Creek and the golf program for little children is quite extensive. My hat is off to your achievement of a 7 handicap (that is awesome), but to play golf costs out here. My husband's buddy that is a member says the guys are out daily with their sons and daughters as early as age 2. Can't go wrong with that by the age of 15 and ready to try out for high school team.

I was a multi sport athlete so hand - eye was good ( and do not play that well today because I cannot afford to play that often ). In season - being on the golf team in HS -( one of the few South Side Chicago Public School teams ) - we played 2 matches a week- they also paid for 2 practice rounds per week and I was able to work enough to play once on the weekend - 5 rounds a week.
With costs today I play 10 rounds a year - max. I have taught both my girls to play, they have decent sets, but you're right. They will likely never compete here because they do not have the time to play 5 rounds a week ( nor the $ ) -

They can play well enough that in today's world where some business meetings are on the course - the would not embarass themselves.

[southsidemom]

gatordog said:

southsidemom said:

My daughter can tumble all she wants in the living room with determination and desire, but without gym time and professional training she just won't be able to keep up...

So we here in upper-middle class suburbia have managed to put a price tag on determination and desire. Is this a great country or what!?

What is also sad is the sense of entitlement from the many kids that have had the benefit of club training and extensive lessons. In order to be successful in this SD you need to have more than just raw talent but also visibility. Not sure how we can change this but it is a valid issue.