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Post by wvhsparent on May 30, 2007 10:41:25 GMT -6
OOH I remember this team too. My daughter's JV VB ( She was a frosh) squad actually let them win the 1st game.  ....The girls really let their guard down, before winning the next 2 and match. The next 2 practice days were brutal....My daughter said they did not touch a volleyball either day!! did laps and stairs. |
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Post by doctorwho on May 30, 2007 10:47:57 GMT -6
the gulf is very wide indeed - which is why I maintain MVHS will be competitive in the Upstate 8 ( 11) which is not as tough as some other conferences top to bottom. They will not be hurt by having just fresh-soph - and can get the school spirit/support rolling right away. Also as part of some of the discussion here, some girls/guys will get an opportunity to make a team they might not otherwise do if all 4 classes were inthe school to start with. OOH I remember this team too. My daughter's JV VB ( She was a frosh) squad actually let them win the 1st game. ....The girls really let their guard down, before winning the next 2 and match. The next 2 practice days were brutal....My daughter said they did not touch a volleyball either day!! did laps and stairs. |
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Post by momto4 on May 30, 2007 10:49:14 GMT -6
doctorwho and arch,
Thanks for the suggestions. I wanted something through school both because of cost and convenience.
A sport that is practicing before and/or after school at a school less than 2 miles away requires one short extra round-trip of driving for me on any given day and would give my child a chance to get to know some other kids in her school a lot better. There is also the chance that someone else playing will live near me and we might be able to share driving on occasion.
A sport in another location is going to require two longer round-trip driving sessions for me on any given day plus more $$ plus my child would not necessarily be with any kids from their own school. In this case in my family it may be prohibitive to play the sport.
We have taken advantage of park district and Wheatland Athletic Association programs and other local establishments like My Gym and DuPage Swim Center. There is not any Y that is within reasonable distance of our house and Aurora's Y just closed. We have gone there in the past for cheerleading.
This is not actually a current problem in my household as my oldest is on her varsity team of choice, my second and third are more into music, and the fourth is only seven. She likes swimming, gymnastics, soccer, cheerleading, dance, etc. She can't do them all at once and she hasn't shown a strong interest in one of them yet that would cause us to go overboard in finding opportunities for her to play at competitive levels.
She can't possibly decide today what she might like spending hours a week playing when she's 12.
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Post by doctorwho on May 30, 2007 10:56:01 GMT -6
doctorwho and arch, Thanks for the suggestions. I wanted something through school both because of cost and convenience. A sport that is practicing before and/or after school at a school less than 2 miles away requires one short extra round-trip of driving for me on any given day and would give my child a chance to get to know some other kids in her school a lot better. There is also the chance that someone else playing will live near me and we might be able to share driving on occasion. A sport in another location is going to require two longer round-trip driving sessions for me on any given day plus more $$ plus my child would not necessarily be with any kids from their own school. In this case in my family it may be prohibitive to play the sport. We have taken advantage of park district and Wheatland Athletic Association programs and other local establishments like My Gym and DuPage Swim Center. There is not any Y that is within reasonable distance of our house and Aurora's Y just closed. We have gone there in the past for cheerleading. This is not actually a current problem in my household as my oldest is on her varsity team of choice, my second and third are more into music, and the fourth is only seven. She likes swimming, gymnastics, soccer, cheerleading, dance, etc. She can't do them all at once and she hasn't shown a strong interest in one of them yet that would cause us to go overboard in finding opportunities for her to play at competitive levels. She can't possibly decide today what she might like spending hours a week playing when she's 12. check with the coaches at your schools also.....the basketball coaches at Hill MS run camps all year - they have one this summer we just got brochure for; broken into 7-8 grade boys / 3 - 8 grade girls & 3- 6 grade boys. as far as not deciding, I used to think the same thing - however one day they might just decide. My youngest has been playing club VB since she was 8 - now in her 4th full season, and she chose to narrow down somewhat- after not wanting to play VB like her sister in the early grades... so it does happen. And she has a friend who has been competitively swimming since she was 8 ( a City champ in breat stroke and butterfly) - 1 4 year softball player and 2 4 year soccer club members -- amazing, they all play different sports but are the best of friends and share experiences....hang out together, go to the show ( when opportunities arise and schedule match) etc... |
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Post by doctorwho on May 30, 2007 13:09:46 GMT -6
Another player that should play fresh - soph vs. varsity because he's too young and should give someone else a chance ? Not in my opinion. www.dailyherald.com/news/dupagestory.asp?id=316978&cc=d&tc=nap&t=napervilleNeuqua sophomore silences Kaneland By Joshua Welge jwelge@dailyherald.com Posted Sunday, May 27, 2007 For a sophomore pitching the biggest game of his young life, Ian Krol was one cool customer. The Neuqua Valley pitcher struck out eight and walked none in outdueling Kaneland ace Casey Crosby 4-1 in the Class AA Neuqua Valley regional baseball final on Saturday in Naperville. The No. 1 seed Wildcats (29-8) will play Geneva on Wednesday in the Neuqua Valley sectional semifinals |
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Post by doctorwho on May 30, 2007 13:16:54 GMT -6
Another player that should play fresh - soph vs. varsity because he's too young and should give someone else a chance ? Not in my opinion. www.dailyherald.com/news/dupagestory.asp?id=316978&cc=d&tc=nap&t=napervilleNeuqua sophomore silences Kaneland By Joshua Welge jwelge@dailyherald.com Posted Sunday, May 27, 2007 For a sophomore pitching the biggest game of his young life, Ian Krol was one cool customer. The Neuqua Valley pitcher struck out eight and walked none in outdueling Kaneland ace Casey Crosby 4-1 in the Class AA Neuqua Valley regional baseball final on Saturday in Naperville. The No. 1 seed Wildcats (29-8) will play Geneva on Wednesday in the Neuqua Valley sectional semifinals Still more on how the schools not only have a long list of Freshman playing varsity, but coaches counting on the incoming class to immediately strengthen team> Warriors’ path hasn’t been easy By Darryl Mellema Daily Herald Correspondent Posted Wednesday, May 30, 2007 Whether you were looking backward or to the future, Monday’s St. Charles East-Waubonsie Valley girls soccer match gave you something to think about. If you were putting yourself into the time machine of Saints history, you were able to say you saw a match that ranks up there with the best the team has ever had in the postseason. And I say that knowing the team didn’t advance even to the state quarterfinals, let alone add to its eight state championships. That, sadly, is as much a byproduct of the lousy tournament setup the state put together as anything the Saints and Warriors did at Benedictine University. I saw all the old championships — starting with the 1-0 victory over Libertyville in 1990. Monday’s match lacked nothing of any of those old games. The Saints were underdogs, which was perhaps a change from the days in the mid-90s when they were perennially the team to beat. It should be said here that those old Saints teams all came before the district split. St. Charles North, the new team in the area, carried the legacy of St. Charles in its veins and advanced all the way to the championship match in 2004 playing a very “St. Charles” style of soccer. This year’s St. Charles East team also showed all the old characteristics. They defended doggedly in the first half and played Waubonsie Valley’s strong attacking team to a virtual standstill. Crucially, and in a massive nod toward the Saints of yore, when Waubonsie Valley scored its first goal, St. Charles East played its best soccer. Spinal columns were suddenly made of steel and every attack had menace. So it was no surprise when Kelsey White headed in Ellen Bartindale’s free kick with four minutes left. It’s really hard to pick players who played poorly on Monday. Some struggled against Waubonsie Valley’s powerful squad — but none gave in. It’s one thing to say that the Saints held their own with the sizable legacy of the program. Can they go the next yard and make it to the state tournament? The next question is just how good this year’s team was. They’re better than some of the teams that will be playing in the state finals. But that’s an anomaly of the IHSA’s goofy brackets. Waubonsie Valley’s had a tougher road through sectional play and then in Monday’s supersectional than it will likely have in the state tournament. That doesn’t mean the Warriors will win the state title. But they must go in as favorites. St. Charles East fell at the final hurdle before the state finals, and there’s no disgrace in that. Their path was more difficult than in some years when they won state titles. But can the Saints move farther next year? The short answer is yes. The deeper answer is that the returnees are strong, the freshmen who joined the varsity this year — especially Hannah Ketterling — are talented. The incoming group is also supposed to be very strong.That doesn’t guarantee a thing. St. Charles North is also massively talented and, in the IHSA way of thinking, will always be grouped with St. Charles East in the same way Neuqua Valley and Waubonsie Valley are always grouped together. Other area teams such as Wheaton North will also be strong again next year. So nothing will be achieved easily. But the potential is there and this year’s team showed the way. And that’s not always an easy thing to do. Not one player on this year’s squad had ever won so much as a sectional title. Yet this team put together its best postseason run since 2001. And whether you’re looking at this team’s place in the pantheon of teams, or at its possible positioning based on its potential — there is much to like about the 2007 St. Charles East Saints |
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Post by southsidemom on May 30, 2007 14:12:21 GMT -6
JV vs. Varsity is no longer based on year in school but moreso ability. I do remember the days when Varsity was solely upperclassmen. Is this right? Well if the name of the game is to secure wins then go with the talent regardless of grade in MS or HS. Not saying I agree or disagree but that is just the way it has become. Winning is the name of the game.
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Post by doctorwho on May 30, 2007 14:33:24 GMT -6
JV vs. Varsity is no longer based on year in school but moreso ability. I do remember the days when Varsity was solely upperclassmen. Is this right? Well if the name of the game is to secure wins then go with the talent regardless of grade in MS or HS. Not saying I agree or disagree but that is just the way it has become. Winning is the name of the game. I would say comptetiton and skill is the name of the game -- winning is nice but in the end only 1 team wins -- at the end of soccer season, 1 team will win the state title - the others also all win in that they compete against each other. This is no different than academics - it is a competition also, as are most things in life. I wonder how far some people go back - in high school I started varsity all 4 years in baseball, 3 of 4 years in golf, and 3 of 4 years in basketball -- and I likely go back further than most here ? I have been out of high school for over 35 years -- so I guess I fail to see the change. Of course not as many kids got to compete as today and we had a fros- soph team and varsity - no JV and no separate freshman and sophomore team, and freshman B team etc. -- yet with so many opportunities somehow some feel like varsity should still be held only for upperclassman. So 2 teams to be able to make instead of 5 today at many of our schools, and one could still make varsity as a freshman. At that time the baseball spots went to little league and pony league players ( hmmm- sorta like club now ) - so again not a huge change. The only 'romantic' difference I remember is that kids were able to play unorganized sports more often , especially after school. No umpires / referees and/or parents, just a field / court and enough kids to flield a team, until it got dark as seldom where there lights. |
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Post by gatordog on May 30, 2007 14:39:41 GMT -6
I just don't think club play is fair. High school sports isn't what it used to be. Jenrick, you get me thinking (as usual)... For ultra-efficiency and optimization (judged by wins, scholarships, championships...) we have chosen to "privatize" kids sports. In our day as students, the highest level of coaching talent, and visibility to colleges, was a "public" commodity via the high school sports program. But now days, that highest level (with exception of football, and probably basketball) is something you have to "buy into", not only with time and dedication, but also with dollars. Yes some of us make the financial decision that it is worth the cost, and we do so. For many more reasons than just making the varsity squad or getting a scholarship. There are many wonderful benefits, no doubt. But, the bottom line is the ability to partake of this opportunity is income-dependent. And by any measure, there is an unfairness when that occurs. Here is a big one to think about, a dollar and cents/pocketbook issue. But a philosophical issue as well. And I will directly relate it to student issues only. I am not talking on an individual case, but on an aggregate, as a whole community. In truth I am very much pointing the finger at myself! Before our state legislature today are tax issues and educational funding concerns. We have rich districts, and poor districts. Sometimes they are even adjacent, aren't they? If we collectively as a society and individually as taxpayers say "no dont take anymore tax dollars from me" to lift up education and student opportunities in areas with less financial resources, but then on the other hand say "we have all this highly discretionary income to spend on athletic (or other extracurricular) ultra-optimization of our own children" , what kind of statement is this? Seems to me, this is something to reflect on.... |
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Post by Arch on May 30, 2007 14:51:58 GMT -6
GD, I agree with you that there's a larger issue and longer impacting outcome from this.
What next? Parents have to tell their kid at age 6, "Sorry, we're poor. Don't even bother with sports"
That seems to be where it's headed. I wonder how that generation will feel and vote for things that concern our generation when we all collectively get older....
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Post by doctorwho on May 30, 2007 14:53:06 GMT -6
I just don't think club play is fair. High school sports isn't what it used to be. Jenrick, you get me thinking (as usual)... For ultra-efficiency and optimization (judged by wins, scholarships, championships...) we have chosen to "privatize" kids sports. In our day as students, the highest level of coaching talent, and visibility to colleges, was a "public" commodity via the high school sports program. But now days, that highest level (with exception of football, and probably basketball) is something you have to "buy into", not only with time and dedication, but also with dollars. Yes some of us make the financial decision that it is worth the cost, and we do so. For many more reasons than just making the varsity squad or getting a scholarship. There are many wonderful benefits, no doubt. But, the bottom line is the ability to partake of this opportunity is income-dependent. And by any measure, there is an unfairness when that occurs. Here is a big one to think about, a dollar and cents/pocketbook issue. But a philosophical issue as well. And I will directly relate it to student issues only. I am not talking on an individual case, but on an aggregate, as a whole community. In truth I am very much pointing the finger at myself! Before our state legislature today are tax issues and educational funding concerns. We have rich districts, and poor districts. Sometimes they are even adjacent, aren't they? If we collectively as a society and individually as taxpayers say "no dont take anymore tax dollars from me" to lift up education and student opportunities in areas with less financial resources, but then on the other hand say "we have all this highly discretionary income to spend on athletic (or other extracurricular) ultra-optimization of our own children" , what kind of statement is this? Seems to me, this is something to reflect on.... to me they are separate issues - but proportionately districts like ours pay more into education to the state than we receive back today already, and I understand that and reasons for it. I am all for trying to help increase educational opportunities for all students, and taxing jurisdictions are there for that purpose, but where I spend my discretional income is out of bounds for that -- so help me understand exactly what it is you are saying in case I misunderstand the thought process. |
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Post by doctorwho on May 30, 2007 15:02:06 GMT -6
GD, I agree with you that there's a larger issue and longer impacting outcome from this. What next? Parents have to tell their kid at age 6, "Sorry, we're poor. Don't even bother with sports" That seems to be where it's headed. I wonder how that generation will vote for things that concern our generation when we all collectively get older.... Having grown up poor, I can relate to this. I wanted in the worst way to go to the baseball camps the White Sox ran in summer, as I was a fairly talented ballplayer at the time. There wasn't a chance in the world my parents could come up with $100 ( I remember the amount to this day) - for something like that at the time. Each year that question came up and each year the answer was the same....One of my friends who had slightly more money than us ( parents sacrificed for sure to send him ) did go every year - he ended up pitching for the White Sox and Orioles .....now I will state here he was better than me also but we were peers on the same teams. somehow I survived and I take good care of my Mom to this day...so I would not have the same sense of fret over how our kids will take care of our generation. There are larger issues in the world such as the off shoring of so many of our jobs and careers for our kids--- they WILL hold us accountable for allowing that to happen ...... |
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Post by Arch on May 30, 2007 15:19:14 GMT -6
somehow I survived and I take good care of my Mom to this day...so I would not have the same sense of fret over how our kids will take care of our generation. There are larger issues in the world such as the off shoring of so many of our jobs and careers for our kids--- they WILL hold us accountable for allowing that to happen ...... You're actually taking the point to a better level. We (as a society) sometimes frame "victory" in a warped way, IMO. Victory on the field, the corporate balance sheet etc. Wins come with losses. As a society we don't stop and reflect on what's being lost because we're being conditioned to only concentrate on 'the win'. (lost jobs, lost childhoods, etc.. "oh, they're growing up so fast") But, that's each parent's choice. |
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Post by doctorwho on May 30, 2007 15:41:27 GMT -6
somehow I survived and I take good care of my Mom to this day...so I would not have the same sense of fret over how our kids will take care of our generation. There are larger issues in the world such as the off shoring of so many of our jobs and careers for our kids--- they WILL hold us accountable for allowing that to happen ...... You're actually taking the point to a better level. We (as a society) sometimes frame "victory" in a warped way, IMO. Victory on the field, the corporate balance sheet etc. Wins come with losses. As a society we don't stop and reflect on what's being lost because we're being conditioned to only concentrate on 'the win'. (lost jobs, lost childhoods, etc.. "oh, they're growing up so fast") But, that's each parent's choice. I have always stressed to my kids that while victories are nice - if you fail to learn anything along the way they are meaningless. My oldest daughter learned so much about, how to travel, how to organize her life to balance sports and academics, exchanged discussions with players from other cities, states & even countries, and made lasting friendships with people she would otherwise have never met. She learned how to eat healthy and get the proper exercise. How to push yourself to excel and yet accept defeats when they inevitably happen. These are every bit as much victories from my viewpoint as well as hers with her experiences and one of the main reasons my youngest is going thru it all now - So when I look at the cost of club sports, ( and school sports ) that was the total return, far more than just increased skills. btw.. the sacrifice on the parents behalf is more than $, it is also a huge amount of time, especially until they are old enough to get themselves to and from practice - and for as long as I can almost remember, the majority of my vacation days have been used to travel with my daughters to/from their events. It is a choice that has to be consciously made. I wouldn't change it for the world. Soon enough the corporate world / adult world will measure victories for them in more substantial terms. I have had some people tell me my kids missed their childhood, but my kids will tell you they have had a blast.... |
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Post by doctorwho on May 30, 2007 17:55:29 GMT -6
Are you actually trying to assert that unless you're in a club that you can't possibly be good? Want to go play some soccer? I was never in a club. It should be an easy win for you. you can be athletic, talented, determined, but to make a varsity sport in this area--- a hotbed for all kinds of club sports---your odds are long if you dont have club experience. Not impossible...but long odds. (I probably should make exception for football where there is no comparable club system, and maybe basketball?) Drwho has experience...how many WV and NV boys and girls make the volleyball varsity with no club experience? Arch mentioned soccer, how many WV and NV varsity soccer players have no club experience? I dont know the exact answers...but i would be surprised if it was more than a handful. Soccer is great example. It is such a precision sport where about 10 things have to consectutively happen "right" for you team to score a goal. Its not just athleticism and determination....practice and game experience are HUGE factors. And soccer is such a sport that you cant really practice on your own. You wont get better either if you arent playing top competion. Its just the way it is.  it would take some serious research to get the details ( coaches there would know immediately) - but I can tell you of the 14 girls on the varsity roster at WVHS this year - 7 play for just one club in the area - Sports Performance ( SPVB) - for teams ranging in ages ( multiple teams at each age) - from 1 on 15- frosh, 1 on 16 - Red, 12 on 17 Mizuno, 1 on 18=Blue and 2 on 18- White. I am sure the others play for other clubs such as Naperville Volleyball Club/ Uno / Ultimate / Lions / Sunsetters / Club Elite / Avalanche ( director is Central head coach Brie Isaacson) / Fusion / Sky High to name a few. The new head coach at WVHS played for SPVB before moving on to SMU. Head coaches at Naperville North and Naperville Central also played slub ball for SPVB. I am not familiar with Kelly Simon at NVHS so I don't know her background - perhaps someone else does ? |
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....The girls really let their guard down, before winning the next 2 and match. The next 2 practice days were brutal....My daughter said they did not touch a volleyball either day!! did laps and stairs.
