WV Girls Soccer Wins SuperSectional!

[macy]

Have to chime in here.

I'm of the opinion that there should be a way for frosh, soph. athletes to play at the Varsity level at the new high school. I have a child who never played a club league in his/her life that earned four varsity levels and competed at the state level as a freshman and sophomore for NVHS.

As parents, we never knew we had an athlete til high school. Never played club sports etc. You just never know.

I'm of the opinion this will be one of the highlights of my child's high school years (and believe me, in my house academics are first). It should be an opportunity for all kids in district 204. I'm in agreement with Dr Who, there should be some way for MVHS students to have this same wonderful opportunity.

[doctorwho]

macy said:

Have to chime in here.

I'm of the opinion that there should be a way for frosh, soph. athletes to play at the Varsity level at the new high school. I have a child who never played a club league in his/her life that earned four varsity levels and competed at the state level as a freshman and sophomore for NVHS.

As parents, we never knew we had an athlete til high school. Never played club sports etc. You just never know.

I'm of the opinion this will be one of the highlights of my child's high school years (and believe me, in my house academics are first). It should be an opportunity for all kids in district 204. I'm in agreement with Dr Who, there should be some way for MVHS students to have this same wonderful opportunity.

I knew we'd find common ground somewhere .... I am glad you are in agreement.

btw- academics first in this house also -- one can be a very good athlete but if their GPA is not good, and they have not taken classes to prepare them for the next step - if they are choosing college - they will be passed over for scholarships as well. Most schools want the whole package - especially for non revenue producing sports ( all but mens football and mens basketball) -

the NCAA clearing house sorts through eligibility with ranking factors - so academics should never take a back seat to sports even for those trying to become college student athletes.

to me one of the best commercials ever is the one from the NCAA about " 97% ( or something close to that %) of our student athletes turn pro in something other than sports", and they then show a variety of graduates in their chosen careers.

p.s. - their experience competing at the state level is something isn't it ?

[movingforward]

macy said:

Have to chime in here.

I'm of the opinion that there should be a way for frosh, soph. athletes to play at the Varsity level at the new high school. I have a child who never played a club league in his/her life that earned four varsity levels and competed at the state level as a freshman and sophomore for NVHS.

As parents, we never knew we had an athlete til high school. Never played club sports etc. You just never know.

I'm of the opinion this will be one of the highlights of my child's high school years (and believe me, in my house academics are first). It should be an opportunity for all kids in district 204. I'm in agreement with Dr Who, there should be some way for MVHS students to have this same wonderful opportunity.

Macy, I agree with your comments too and hope that some arrangement can be made for freshmen and soph. to play varsity at MVHS.

To elaborate on your comment; some kids are just athletically inclined while others are not. I've seen parents pour thousands of dollars into club sports and yet their kids are really not getting any better and maybe never will. They reach THEIR potential which is all we can ever ask for, right?

My point is that a gifted athlete does not necessarily NEED club sports ; and your child is an example of that. Once they are recognized and proper coaching takes place, they can excel even if discovered at a ripe old age in high school .

[harry]

movingforward said:

macy said:

Have to chime in here.

I'm of the opinion that there should be a way for frosh, soph. athletes to play at the Varsity level at the new high school. I have a child who never played a club league in his/her life that earned four varsity levels and competed at the state level as a freshman and sophomore for NVHS.

As parents, we never knew we had an athlete til high school. Never played club sports etc. You just never know.

I'm of the opinion this will be one of the highlights of my child's high school years (and believe me, in my house academics are first). It should be an opportunity for all kids in district 204. I'm in agreement with Dr Who, there should be some way for MVHS students to have this same wonderful opportunity.

Macy, I agree with your comments too and hope that some arrangement can be made for freshmen and soph. to play varsity at MVHS.

To elaborate on your comment; some kids are just athletically inclined while others are not. I've seen parents pour thousands of dollars into club sports and yet their kids are really not getting any better and maybe never will. They reach THEIR potential which is all we can ever ask for, right?

My point is that a gifted athlete does not necessarily NEED club sports ; and your child is an example of that. Once they are recognized and proper coaching takes place, they can excel even if discovered at a ripe old age in high school .

Movingforward

You hit it right where it lies

gifted kids don't need hours and hours of practice and need club sports to succeed

and as the old saying goes..

"You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"

And the Club owners are laughing all the way to the bank because the stats show that on average, only 2% of hs athletes go on to play, not necessarily get a scholarship, but play sports in college.

So the other 98% of the players are playing for fun or false delusions.

I believe that players should play with their peers regardless of ability in order to gain character, NOT burn out and to have something to look forward to. It is not about winning at all costs and players who are superstars as freshmen on the freshman team will continue to be superstars on JV and Varsity, except they will be able to play with their friends and 'graduate' to the next level with their own peers and not be exposed to upperclassmen and have to 'grow up' before needing to and/or miss out on other extra curricular events by playing up.

It isn't about saving thousands on a scholarship. It is about letting kids enjoy their lives and not heaping so much pressure to perform at an early age when we all know that comes sooner than we want it to.

[movingforward]

harry said:

movingforward said:

Macy, I agree with your comments too and hope that some arrangement can be made for freshmen and soph. to play varsity at MVHS.

To elaborate on your comment; some kids are just athletically inclined while others are not. I've seen parents pour thousands of dollars into club sports and yet their kids are really not getting any better and maybe never will. They reach THEIR potential which is all we can ever ask for, right?

My point is that a gifted athlete does not necessarily NEED club sports ; and your child is an example of that. Once they are recognized and proper coaching takes place, they can excel even if discovered at a ripe old age in high school .

Movingforward

You hit it right where it lies

gifted kids don't need hours and hours of practice and need club sports to succeed

and as the old saying goes..

"You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"

And the Club owners are laughing all the way to the bank because the stats show that on average, only 2% of hs athletes go on to play, not necessarily get a scholarship, but play sports in college.

So the other 98% of the players are playing for fun or false delusions.

I believe that players should play with their peers regardless of ability in order to gain character, NOT burn out and to have something to look forward to. It is not about winning at all costs and players who are superstars as freshmen on the freshman team will continue to be superstars on JV and Varsity, except they will be able to play with their friends and 'graduate' to the next level with their own peers and not be exposed to upperclassmen and have to 'grow up' before needing to and/or miss out on other extra curricular events by playing up.

It isn't about saving thousands on a scholarship. It is about letting kids enjoy their lives and not heaping so much pressure to perform at an early age when we all know that comes sooner than we want it to.

Harry,

I agree with your overall thought process that some should not be pushing kids sooo hard with respect to sports. I think that society is crazy for idolizing sports figures and that they are paid the money they are paid compared to more noble professions...this is my opinion.

But, for the kid that is gifted at a sport there is no harm IMO to allow them to play 'up' . We just have to hope that they don't have crazy parents at home!!! ;D

[driven]

doctorwho said:

macy said:

Have to chime in here.

I'm of the opinion that there should be a way for frosh, soph. athletes to play at the Varsity level at the new high school. I have a child who never played a club league in his/her life that earned four varsity levels and competed at the state level as a freshman and sophomore for NVHS.

As parents, we never knew we had an athlete til high school. Never played club sports etc. You just never know.

I'm of the opinion this will be one of the highlights of my child's high school years (and believe me, in my house academics are first). It should be an opportunity for all kids in district 204. I'm in agreement with Dr Who, there should be some way for MVHS students to have this same wonderful opportunity.

I knew we'd find common ground somewhere .... I am glad you are in agreement.

btw- academics first in this house also -- one can be a very good athlete but if their GPA is not good, and they have not taken classes to prepare them for the next step - if they are choosing college - they will be passed over for scholarships as well. Most schools want the whole package - especially for non revenue producing sports ( all but mens football and mens basketball) -

the NCAA clearing house sorts through eligibility with ranking factors - so academics should never take a back seat to sports even for those trying to become college student athletes.

to me one of the best commercials ever is the one from the NCAA about " 97% ( or something close to that %) of our student athletes turn pro in something other than sports", and they then show a variety of graduates in their chosen careers.

p.s. - their experience competing at the state level is something isn't it ?

Okay, I have to say it...I TOTALLY AGREE! Gosh that felt good! ;D

MV needs Varsity sports from day one!

[justvote]

Although I primarily agree that the fresh/soph at MV should be allowed to play at the varsity level, the only thing that concerns me is the sports where the kids don't usually come from a club team. If the decidion is made that fresh/soph start at the Varsity level, will that apply to all sports? I'm just afraid that these student athletes who are participating in sports that generally don't have club teams (football perhaps?) will get pummeled by the other school's varsity squads.

[doctorwho]

justvote said:

Although I primarily agree that the fresh/soph at MV should be allowed to play at the varsity level, the only thing that concerns me is the sports where the kids don't usually come from a club team. If the decidion is made that fresh/soph start at the Varsity level, will that apply to all sports? I'm just afraid that these student athletes who are participating in sports that generally don't have club teams (football perhaps?) will get pummeled by the other school's varsity squads.

I am willing to listen to football parents - to get their side - but I do believe football may have to be one of the exceptions - as size wise it could be a safety issue - agree.

[doctorwho]

driven said:

doctorwho said:

I knew we'd find common ground somewhere .... I am glad you are in agreement.

btw- academics first in this house also -- one can be a very good athlete but if their GPA is not good, and they have not taken classes to prepare them for the next step - if they are choosing college - they will be passed over for scholarships as well. Most schools want the whole package - especially for non revenue producing sports ( all but mens football and mens basketball) -

the NCAA clearing house sorts through eligibility with ranking factors - so academics should never take a back seat to sports even for those trying to become college student athletes.

to me one of the best commercials ever is the one from the NCAA about " 97% ( or something close to that %) of our student athletes turn pro in something other than sports", and they then show a variety of graduates in their chosen careers.

p.s. - their experience competing at the state level is something isn't it ?

Okay, I have to say it...I TOTALLY AGREE! Gosh that felt good! ;D

MV needs Varsity sports from day one!

I'm buying lotto tickets tonight !

But seriously - thank you also for agreeing -- we need to make our voices heard. As I mentioned once previously, I have already written to Kathy Birkett and put forth a case for her to consider this option, that contains many of the facts I have put forth here as to why. I ask that others who agree do the same, and maybe we can make this happen. I remember how much Kathy supported the teams at Neuqua Valley in her time there when my daughter was at Waubonsie...I am hoping she will take this request under advisement.

[doctorwho]

harry said:

movingforward said:

Macy, I agree with your comments too and hope that some arrangement can be made for freshmen and soph. to play varsity at MVHS.

To elaborate on your comment; some kids are just athletically inclined while others are not. I've seen parents pour thousands of dollars into club sports and yet their kids are really not getting any better and maybe never will. They reach THEIR potential which is all we can ever ask for, right?

My point is that a gifted athlete does not necessarily NEED club sports ; and your child is an example of that. Once they are recognized and proper coaching takes place, they can excel even if discovered at a ripe old age in high school .

Movingforward

You hit it right where it lies

gifted kids don't need hours and hours of practice and need club sports to succeed

and as the old saying goes..

"You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"

And the Club owners are laughing all the way to the bank because the stats show that on average, only 2% of hs athletes go on to play, not necessarily get a scholarship, but play sports in college.

So the other 98% of the players are playing for fun or false delusions.

I believe that players should play with their peers regardless of ability in order to gain character, NOT burn out and to have something to look forward to. It is not about winning at all costs and players who are superstars as freshmen on the freshman team will continue to be superstars on JV and Varsity, except they will be able to play with their friends and 'graduate' to the next level with their own peers and not be exposed to upperclassmen and have to 'grow up' before needing to and/or miss out on other extra curricular events by playing up.

It isn't about saving thousands on a scholarship. It is about letting kids enjoy their lives and not heaping so much pressure to perform at an early age when we all know that comes sooner than we want it to.

As I have stated before and backed up with facts as opposed to opinion - club players get far more out of club sports than winning. So repeating the winning at all costs mantra about club athletes holds no water -

Playing with ones friends it great when hanging out - it is boring as all get out for the better athletes . These athletes are more mature than you want to give them credit for about ' growing up'.

I am the one who printed the stats on scholarships so I am well aware of the odds- but why not ask any college head coach / recruiter how many scholarship athletes they have on their squads in volleyball / soccer / basketball that were not club players - and then quote those facts. The answer is virtually none, with very very few exceptions.

And just a thought - many athletes feel really good about themselves earning scholarships - one of their first major life accomplishments.

Ask my kids about their club experiences - trips to other countries to play ball - travelling to major cities - and making friends across the country - yeah they are lamenting their 'lost' childhoods. My daughter graduating college this year will tell you they were some of the best times of her life.
So let's stop painting all club athletes as load animals being driven by their parents, it's simply not true.

[doctorwho]

movingforward said:

harry said:

Movingforward

You hit it right where it lies

gifted kids don't need hours and hours of practice and need club sports to succeed

and as the old saying goes..

"You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"

And the Club owners are laughing all the way to the bank because the stats show that on average, only 2% of hs athletes go on to play, not necessarily get a scholarship, but play sports in college.

So the other 98% of the players are playing for fun or false delusions.

I believe that players should play with their peers regardless of ability in order to gain character, NOT burn out and to have something to look forward to. It is not about winning at all costs and players who are superstars as freshmen on the freshman team will continue to be superstars on JV and Varsity, except they will be able to play with their friends and 'graduate' to the next level with their own peers and not be exposed to upperclassmen and have to 'grow up' before needing to and/or miss out on other extra curricular events by playing up.

It isn't about saving thousands on a scholarship. It is about letting kids enjoy their lives and not heaping so much pressure to perform at an early age when we all know that comes sooner than we want it to.

Harry,

I agree with your overall thought process that some should not be pushing kids sooo hard with respect to sports. I think that society is crazy for idolizing sports figures and that they are paid the money they are paid compared to more noble professions...this is my opinion.

But, for the kid that is gifted at a sport there is no harm IMO to allow them to play 'up' . We just have to hope that they don't have crazy parents at home!!! ;D

while there are some, no denying it, the vast majority of club athlete parents are ultra supportive ( as I have stated you give up untold hours also all year round) - and I am willing to bet there are no more fanatical parents than there are pushing kids in music / academics or any other endeavor. Sometimes I think this is a picture painted by those who have never been involved in club sports.

Also if one was a parent of an athlete, you may come to realize by those who are really driven, no one is pushing them hard - they are pushing themselves to be successful - not exactly a horrible lesson to learn.

[movingforward]

doctorwho said:

justvote said:

Although I primarily agree that the fresh/soph at MV should be allowed to play at the varsity level, the only thing that concerns me is the sports where the kids don't usually come from a club team. If the decidion is made that fresh/soph start at the Varsity level, will that apply to all sports? I'm just afraid that these student athletes who are participating in sports that generally don't have club teams (football perhaps?) will get pummeled by the other school's varsity squads.

I am willing to listen to football parents - to get their side - but I do believe football may have to be one of the exceptions - as size wise it could be a safety issue - agree.

My son will be a freshman in 2009 at MVHS and is a football player currently. Due to the size/safety issue, I agree that football is one sport where playing with their peers (freshman and sophomores) for the first two years is the best approach.

I will agree with Harry's post and state that the odds of them making the pro's are not great enough to jeopardize their safety IMO.

I do have a friend whose son is (in their eyes) gifted in football. They are concerned/upset about the idea that there will be no varsity football at MVHS and have considered moving because of it. I suppose some families of gifted athletes have to make decisions similar to that at one point or another over the course of their child's athletic 'career'.

p.s. I will not be moving .

[doctorwho]

movingforward said:

doctorwho said:

I am willing to listen to football parents - to get their side - but I do believe football may have to be one of the exceptions - as size wise it could be a safety issue - agree.

My son will be a freshman in 2009 at MVHS and is a football player currently. Due to the size/safety issue, I agree that football is one sport where playing with their peers (freshman and sophomores) for the first two years is the best approach.

I will agree with Harry's post and state that the odds of them making the pro's are not great enough to jeopardize their safety IMO.

I do have a friend whose son is (in their eyes) gifted in football. They are concerned/upset about the idea that there will be no varsity football at MVHS and have considered moving because of it. I suppose some families of gifted athletes have to make decisions similar to that at one point or another over the course of their child's athletic 'career'.

p.s. I will not be moving .

I have never made a case that pro athlete odds are anything but remote, but college scholarships to really good schools are there for gifted athletes.
Again, I was the one who posted the NCAA odds sheet.

Each family has to make their own decision. I knew a family that moved from 204 after middle school because they felt the girls basketball programs were not up to their daughters skills. Now I did not agree- but they moved to Hinsdale Central - their daughter was a star player - and played well in college also. So they did what they thought right and it seemed to work for them, so I guess I cannot be critical.

Now in most club sports all the scholarships come from club national tournament play and club play itself. Many college head coaches / recruiters may tell you they never attend HS games. I know one 25 + year head volleyball coach who has never seen 1 high school , by his own admission, yet has run 2 different national powerhouse programs at excellent schools and owns 4 national titles....

Football is a different animal however, as high school play and camps at colleges are where most athletes are noticed, so I understand their concern. For most athletes the scholarship part will not be the issue at MV, it is the competitive part.

For some of these athletes families, that portion is a 'career' as you state. For some families the scholarship is the difference between going to college or not. For others it may be the difference between a small local college and say Stanford or Duke because of the scholarhips. For a minute portion is this a 'going pro' issue as most sports have no professional outlet at all. For those families with unlimited funds this may not be an issue, but for many it certainly is not one to be dismissed.

[movingforward]

doctorwho said:

movingforward said:

Harry,

I agree with your overall thought process that some should not be pushing kids sooo hard with respect to sports. I think that society is crazy for idolizing sports figures and that they are paid the money they are paid compared to more noble professions...this is my opinion.

But, for the kid that is gifted at a sport there is no harm IMO to allow them to play 'up' . We just have to hope that they don't have crazy parents at home!!! ;D

while there are some, no denying it, the vast majority of club athlete parents are ultra supportive ( as I have stated you give up untold hours also all year round) - and I am willing to bet there are no more fanatical parents than there are pushing kids in music / academics or any other endeavor. Sometimes I think this is a picture painted by those who have never been involved in club sports.

Also if one was a parent of an athlete, you may come to realize by those who are really driven, no one is pushing them hard - they are pushing themselves to be successful - not exactly a horrible lesson to learn.

I suppose it depends on what age kids are put into club sports IMO. I have seen 7 year olds who cannot make play dates because they practice soccer 4 night/week and have weekend tournaments. IMO that is CRAZY!

I think club sports are great when a child needs more coaching and has peaked in rec sports. That is how I view the need for club sports. You are right, none of my kids has yet to play Club sports ; until this fall for football.

We are a very athletic household and I have seen from my own experiences that when a person possesses athletic ability they don't necessarily have to be in a club sport from age 7 to excel. It's all about the timing IMO.

Also, I don't see club sports as being all about winning; They are about obtaining more advanced coaching and a more intense training environment. You are right, that can be an amazing experience for any athlete at the right time.

[harry]

doctorwho said:

harry said:

Movingforward

You hit it right where it lies

gifted kids don't need hours and hours of practice and need club sports to succeed

and as the old saying goes..

"You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"

And the Club owners are laughing all the way to the bank because the stats show that on average, only 2% of hs athletes go on to play, not necessarily get a scholarship, but play sports in college.

So the other 98% of the players are playing for fun or false delusions.

I believe that players should play with their peers regardless of ability in order to gain character, NOT burn out and to have something to look forward to. It is not about winning at all costs and players who are superstars as freshmen on the freshman team will continue to be superstars on JV and Varsity, except they will be able to play with their friends and 'graduate' to the next level with their own peers and not be exposed to upperclassmen and have to 'grow up' before needing to and/or miss out on other extra curricular events by playing up.

It isn't about saving thousands on a scholarship. It is about letting kids enjoy their lives and not heaping so much pressure to perform at an early age when we all know that comes sooner than we want it to.

As I have stated before and backed up with facts as opposed to opinion - club players get far more out of club sports than winning. So repeating the winning at all costs mantra about club athletes holds no water -

Playing with ones friends it great when hanging out - it is boring as all get out for the better athletes . These athletes are more mature than you want to give them credit for about ' growing up'.

I am the one who printed the stats on scholarships so I am well aware of the odds- but why not ask any college head coach / recruiter how many scholarship athletes they have on their squads in volleyball / soccer / basketball that were not club players - and then quote those facts. The answer is virtually none, with very very few exceptions.

And just a thought - many athletes feel really good about themselves earning scholarships - one of their first major life accomplishments.

Ask my kids about their club experiences - trips to other countries to play ball - travelling to major cities - and making friends across the country - yeah they are lamenting their 'lost' childhoods. My daughter graduating college this year will tell you they were some of the best times of her life.
So let's stop painting all club athletes as load animals being driven by their parents, it's simply not true.

Not to flog, but if any child laments their 'lost' childhoods....was it truly worth it since they won't ever be able to be a child again? This is my point.