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Post by doctorwho on Aug 22, 2007 7:02:30 GMT -6
maybe you need to revisit the stuff you have been spewing at people the last 4 hours --to any number of posters if you are looking for attacks.... a FACT is that in special sessions other bills cannot be heard -- you seem to think somehow there should be a daily update - that is silly and uninformed. If that is a cut down - than so be it. nothing is lost on me however it's you that needs to tone down the smart alec'y retorts -- and seemingly consistent overlooking of any facts for personal opinon. You don't think much of the SB.. we get it..you don't like them, you think them incompetent, and you could do a much better job as you have said. We don't need to read about it in each post, no one has missed your point. Maybe you should consider that in 18 months... As elected officials, the SB has a responsibility to update their community so that they stay...........informed. You think much of the SB, and WV and ad infinitum we get that. We too read your laboriously long posts, no one has missed your points... So what is your point in this post anyway??? Your 'facts' are your opinion and your opinion alone ;D you need to look up a dfinition of facts -- adding current enrollment numbers by class are facts -- adding up 3 cost estimates for a middle school and 2 additons are facts - based on the latest estimates we have for construction costs -- so they are not mine and mine alone.... |
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Post by bob on Aug 22, 2007 7:31:06 GMT -6
This comment does not make sense. How can a bubble just stay in the MS and not flow into the HS?
for the SD? for ES? for MS? for HS?
A very small class graduated lasy year; 1769 according to the enrollment numbres from last year. This admin believes that the K + 1 grade bounce is going to be less than this? That would be 477 less student than last year's K and 1st grade bump and would be roughly a 21% decline. That I just don't see happening.
I could see the ES enrollment being down if the K + 1st grade bump doesn't cover the 2292 students that left for MS.
MS enrollment is going up using the SD enrollment number from last year by 122.
HS enrollment is going up by 401 using the SD enrollment numbers from, last year.
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Post by southsidemom on Aug 22, 2007 7:34:21 GMT -6
At the very last boundary meeting, I remember the former Super saying "you Waubonsie people need to get the chip off your shoulder" I was shocked by this statement. What's more shocking is that we seem to not hold our SD accountable for the perception of the two schools in our district. We'd rather lash out at residents instead of asking who, why, how did the situation get like this? Our SB said that people (and we know who some of those people are)- who voted no the first time) would not support a new high school without knowing boundaries. Why is that?  ? Because they wanted to be sure they stayed at WVHS or they could now be moved from NVHS to WVHS? I don't think so. So let's stop with pointing fingers at each other and deal with the real issue. NNHS has a similar low income student population as WV, but higher achievement. What's with that? ?? When are we going to start talking about how to improve WV's image (real or perceived) and I don't mean another coat of paint or another new potty? |
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Post by sam2 on Aug 22, 2007 7:45:09 GMT -6
I know that I'll get slammed for this, but I'm going to say it anyway:
As I read this thread, concern about overcrowding at the middle school level abounds. there is great debate about the the nbeed for a third high school. And a lot of criticism of the school board, offset by a great deal of support for the school board. Mostly, it's vitriol. It used to be interesting, now it is just tiresome......
Does anyone remember that many of us, ( I know, not enough -- the voters have spoken,etc.) were adamantly opposed to converting a middle school to a freshman campus, and opposed to building a second freshman campus, favoring a third high school instead. Just think, the overcrowding at the middle school level would be gone, overcrowding at the high school level would be gone, and the BB debate would never have happened...
.But, our school board had lots of experts to explain demographic trends, the value of freshman centers, etc and convinced the voters that we would never need a third high school if we voted for the freshman centers.
I applaud those who refuse to accept everything the SB provides as gospel -- they have done many things right, but they've also missed the boat on many things.....one thing they've never done is admit a mistake so don't hold out any hope of a change in direction --- we're going to BB no matter what the cost. Fact is, we no longer have any other options....
Fire away.....
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Post by bob on Aug 22, 2007 7:55:47 GMT -6
Nice post Sam2.
Don't forget about the previous referendum committees.
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Post by lacy on Aug 22, 2007 7:56:23 GMT -6
Just an FYI, I was with several teachers/admins over the weekend and don't know how many people are aware that: 1) The teachers that were moved to be Intervention Specialists in the district were done so because the district did not need 19 teachers. These IS specialist positions were created to keep from riffing 19 teachers. According to the admin person -- enrollment is down. The bubble is in middle school and will stay there. This persons feeling is to take the land we have, build the MUCH NEEDED middle school on it, then build an addition onto WV and NV and save $40 million dollars. I don't know about the additions at WV and NV, but apparently the SD knows exactly where they can do it so apparently it has been looked at. This person does know about elementary numbers and they are down. 2) Also with looking at reallocating the 19 teachers the class sizes went up. Our new Super does not think class size matters once the class size is over 16. Does this relate to BB -- well, it sounds like the SB may have to rethink what their options are and what they need to do. As a taxpayer and parent -- not real happy if this is going to drag out and not the original solution we were promised. I would rather see the SB acknowledge IF (and that statement truly is an "IF") numbers are decreasing and deal with the middle school issues and then make reasonable solutions to the high school problems. I know we need extra space at the high schools (I have one at WV now), but accord to admin the southern end of the district is much worse and the addition there could have helped NV a lot along with an addition onto the back parking lot at WV. This would keep the gold campus and alleviate the space crunch for the interim. Apparently, 203 is having the same problem with declining numbers and they have to deal with Central. Just FYI. I spoke to someone at Fry who said they are down one K classroom from last year. I think the suggestions in this proposal make sense. We already own the 25 acres that a middle school could go on. |
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Post by lacy on Aug 22, 2007 8:01:28 GMT -6
At the very last boundary meeting, I remember the former Super saying "you Waubonsie people need to get the chip off your shoulder" I was shocked by this statement. What's more shocking is that we seem to not hold our SD accountable for the perception of the two schools in our district. We'd rather lash out at residents instead of asking who, why, how did the situation get like this? Our SB said that people (and we know who some of those people are)- who voted no the first time) would not support a new high school without knowing boundaries. Why is that? ? Because they wanted to be sure they stayed at WVHS or they could now be moved from NVHS to WVHS? I don't think so. So let's stop with pointing fingers at each other and deal with the real issue. NNHS has a similar low income student population as WV, but higher achievement. What's with that? ?? When are we going to start talking about how to improve WV's image (real or perceived) and I don't mean another coat of paint or another new potty? I do think you're right that the SD and SB bear alot of responsibility for the animosity in this district. And members of the SB continue to stir the pot with statements such as "the deep pockets" in Ashwood, etc. I think they manipulate all of us for their own purposes. |
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Post by doctorwho on Aug 22, 2007 8:06:06 GMT -6
At the very last boundary meeting, I remember the former Super saying "you Waubonsie people need to get the chip off your shoulder" I was shocked by this statement. What's more shocking is that we seem to not hold our SD accountable for the perception of the two schools in our district. We'd rather lash out at residents instead of asking who, why, how did the situation get like this? Our SB said that people (and we know who some of those people are)- who voted no the first time) would not support a new high school without knowing boundaries. Why is that? ? Because they wanted to be sure they stayed at WVHS or they could now be moved from NVHS to WVHS? I don't think so. So let's stop with pointing fingers at each other and deal with the real issue. NNHS has a similar low income student population as WV, but higher achievement. What's with that? ?? When are we going to start talking about how to improve WV's image (real or perceived) and I don't mean another coat of paint or another new potty? the perception issue is a major one -- and I have had a child there since NV opened. The media had a lot to do with it as everyone ranted on how we overspent for NV - how beautiful it was --heck even Jesse Jackson was out here at NV asking where schools like that for the city were....it seemed to snowball after that. I can tell you this issue was always more from an 'adult' standpoint than a student one.....the students had friendly rivalries - sports battles were spirited and kids were really into it -- and I really respected tje principal at NV - Kathy Birkett - who did a lot I believe to promote good natured rivalry ( as opposed to a principal at WV - Weaver - who IMHO did nothing period ) - Over the years however - although the kids get along seemingly very well -- the divide started. Maybe it was fueled by the boundary battles that occured before NV opened ( for those not here then - boundary battles are not a new thing) - , maybe it was some jealousy on some parts , maybe it was also some arrogance on some parts -- but whatever it continued to gain momentum -- I agree it is one of the MAJOR issues that needs to be resolved and understood before the next school opens -- this needs to be SD 204 -- not this school or that school. School pride is one thing - but that is not what we see a lot of today. And this may rile some- but I really believe the issue lies in the homes - with parents, not very much with the kids at all. That is why it ticked me off to have had you make the comment that seemed to reference that since I was moving from WV to MV that is why I took the BB approach I have. First it couldn;t be further from the truth - and secondly - it is exactly those kind of comments - even if meant for others and not me - that perpetuates the division. When I moved her 18 years ago -- I was the south side ! There was very little short of Brighton Ridge and Aero Estates south of 75th street -- and were we treated like newcomers in the SD but those here longer -- you bet. But not with the nastiness displayed today. Having grown up in the city we couldn't be happier with what the schools here offered - they seemed amazing. Yet today some have to try and look at schools within our own district - from ES to HS -- and rank them in terms of acceptability. Why is that ? The last time I looked my taxes go to 204 as a whole - not to any specific school - we need to support all and ensure as a whole we are successful. I am glad it appears our new super seems to be focused very much on the whole..... that being said I agree with your comment on why does 203 have higher HS scores than we do at the HS level ( they do not at the ES level) -- but why does that have to deal only with minority population ? I really don't think we should go there- but at least if you are going to compare have the correct facts -- the minority population at WVHS is almost 3 times that at North, not similar as you state. The numbers are in the links below and really bear no more detail than that. However North has a higher % than Central yet scores higher - showing that this should not be any indicator. I'd be more concerned with why are many of the top performing ES in 204 - yet by HS we are behind ? www.suntimes.com/pcds/html/schools/2006/cache/NAPERVILLENORTHHIGHNAPERVILLECUSD203.htmlwww.suntimes.com/pcds/html/schools/2006/cache/NAPERVILLECENTRALHIGHNAPERVILLECUSD203.htmlwww.suntimes.com/pcds/html/schools/2006/cache/WAUBONSIEVALLEYHIGHINDIANPRAIRIECUSD204.htmlwww.suntimes.com/pcds/html/schools/2006/cache/NEUQUAVALLEYHIGHINDIANPRAIRIECUSD204.html |
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Post by casey on Aug 22, 2007 8:07:41 GMT -6
Does anyone else find it interesting that the Naperville Sun chose not to print anything about the pre-trial motions and court date last week? The Daily Herald printed it on Saturday but I'm not sure that many read it. In fact, I saw it here on this pro-board only.
Say what you want about the paper not being able to print everything but I consider not printing it irresponsible journalism. Tell me our 204 community wouldn't need or want to know the delay tactics that BB attorneys are trying to use (separating into two trials, moving venue, etc.)? This is extremely important news.
Unfortunately, I feel the Sun often chooses to align itself with the SD and somehow feeds the community the information they want. I would cancel my subscription but I need the paper for the sport recaps as well as all the local news. sigh....... Of course, I'm sure there's many that will love my "conspiracy theory" but it's just my opinion.
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Post by doctorwho on Aug 22, 2007 8:11:52 GMT -6
I know that I'll get slammed for this, but I'm going to say it anyway: As I read this thread, concern about overcrowding at the middle school level abounds. there is great debate about the the nbeed for a third high school. And a lot of criticism of the school board, offset by a great deal of support for the school board. Mostly, it's vitriol. It used to be interesting, now it is just tiresome...... Does anyone remember that many of us, ( I know, not enough -- the voters have spoken,etc.) were adamantly opposed to converting a middle school to a freshman campus, and opposed to building a second freshman campus, favoring a third high school instead. Just think, the overcrowding at the middle school level would be gone, overcrowding at the high school level would be gone, and the BB debate would never have happened... .But, our school board had lots of experts to explain demographic trends, the value of freshman centers, etc and convinced the voters that we would never need a third high school if we voted for the freshman centers. I applaud those who refuse to accept everything the SB provides as gospel -- they have done many things right, but they've also missed the boat on many things.....one thing they've never done is admit a mistake so don't hold out any hope of a change in direction --- we're going to BB no matter what the cost. Fact is, we no longer have any other options.... Fire away..... no firing from me -- pretty much right on -- the feshman centers IMHO were a mistake...I said so then ( for more than just numbers reasons) - and still say so. But yes, experts abound everywhere - consultants who can claim there will be 9 students from 180 apartments because their EXCEL spreadsheet for the US tells them so..... those who convince people they can predict anything and get paid handsomely to do so. Was this a mistake by the SB - yes I believe it was - but also let's remember 1/ there was support for this plan also, just as there was a large group opposed to a third HS 2/ many members of that board are long gone -- still does not absolve that fact that had we built a 3rd HS then - we would not be in this issue today - that is a correct statement. |
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Post by bob on Aug 22, 2007 8:12:27 GMT -6
Does anyone else find it interesting that the Naperville Sun chose not to print anything about the pre-trial motions and court date last week? The Daily Herald printed it on Saturday but I'm not sure that many read it. In fact, I saw it here on this pro-board only. Say what you want about the paper not being able to print everything but I consider not printing it irresponsible journalism. Tell me our 204 community wouldn't need or want to know the delay tactics that BB attorneys are trying to use (separating into two trials, moving venue, etc.)? This is extremely important news. Unfortunately, I feel the Sun often chooses to align itself with the SD and somehow feeds the community the information they want. I would cancel my subscription but I need the paper for the sport recaps as well as all the local news. sigh....... Of course, I'm sure there's many that will love my "conspiracy theory" but it's just my opinion. They were to busy covering the Naperville North student cook out. tailgate party ;D |
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Post by doctorwho on Aug 22, 2007 8:15:26 GMT -6
Does anyone else find it interesting that the Naperville Sun chose not to print anything about the pre-trial motions and court date last week? The Daily Herald printed it on Saturday but I'm not sure that many read it. In fact, I saw it here on this pro-board only. Say what you want about the paper not being able to print everything but I consider not printing it irresponsible journalism. Tell me our 204 community wouldn't need or want to know the delay tactics that BB attorneys are trying to use (separating into two trials, moving venue, etc.)? This is extremely important news. Unfortunately, I feel the Sun often chooses to align itself with the SD and somehow feeds the community the information they want. I would cancel my subscription but I need the paper for the sport recaps as well as all the local news. sigh....... Of course, I'm sure there's many that will love my "conspiracy theory" but it's just my opinion. And some would say that the Herald aligns itself with Christine Vickers and some of her associates -- since no article ever gets printed without a quote from her..... I think it is more the fact that Sarah Hooker and Brit Carson choose not to cover our SD each and every day -- for whatever reason....you'd have to ask them why. |
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Post by doctorwho on Aug 22, 2007 8:17:32 GMT -6
Does anyone else find it interesting that the Naperville Sun chose not to print anything about the pre-trial motions and court date last week? The Daily Herald printed it on Saturday but I'm not sure that many read it. In fact, I saw it here on this pro-board only. Say what you want about the paper not being able to print everything but I consider not printing it irresponsible journalism. Tell me our 204 community wouldn't need or want to know the delay tactics that BB attorneys are trying to use (separating into two trials, moving venue, etc.)? This is extremely important news. Unfortunately, I feel the Sun often chooses to align itself with the SD and somehow feeds the community the information they want. I would cancel my subscription but I need the paper for the sport recaps as well as all the local news. sigh....... Of course, I'm sure there's many that will love my "conspiracy theory" but it's just my opinion. They were to busy covering the Naperville North student cook out. tailgate party ;D that is true - if we are going down the what paper prints what path -- the Sun is extremely 203 heavy vs 204 and always has been. |
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Post by wvhsparent on Aug 22, 2007 8:18:32 GMT -6
I know that I'll get slammed for this, but I'm going to say it anyway: As I read this thread, concern about overcrowding at the middle school level abounds. there is great debate about the the nbeed for a third high school. And a lot of criticism of the school board, offset by a great deal of support for the school board. Mostly, it's vitriol. It used to be interesting, now it is just tiresome...... Does anyone remember that many of us, ( I know, not enough -- the voters have spoken,etc.) were adamantly opposed to converting a middle school to a freshman campus, and opposed to building a second freshman campus, favoring a third high school instead. Just think, the overcrowding at the middle school level would be gone, overcrowding at the high school level would be gone, and the BB debate would never have happened... .But, our school board had lots of experts to explain demographic trends, the value of freshman centers, etc and convinced the voters that we would never need a third high school if we voted for the freshman centers. I applaud those who refuse to accept everything the SB provides as gospel -- they have done many things right, but they've also missed the boat on many things.....one thing they've never done is admit a mistake so don't hold out any hope of a change in direction --- we're going to BB no matter what the cost. Fact is, we no longer have any other options.... Fire away..... Sam...You are right...they screwed up on that one......but- IIRC several (not all) of the SB members have admitted to the screw-up. As I am known not to be a real big fan of the SB.....I do believe they have the right data and solutions this time to justify the new HS. Yes the data may need tweaking in light of the current downward trend in housing, but that may just buy us some time. The need is still there. We need to look past , but not forget, the past mistakes and continue forward. |
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Post by warriorpride on Aug 22, 2007 8:26:59 GMT -6
I heard there's an empty closet over at Wheatland - how about if we educate your kids there, Harry? Come on, man, let's get real. You can talk about how "creative" the "free" space should be used. It all stops being realistic & practical at some point, though. It is sad, WP that you feel it is ok to waste space, land, dollars, resources, etc. I don't You're putting words in my mouth - you're very good at that, BTW |
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