Question about capacity

[Arch]

I'll take the 'wait until done' at face value then.

[admin]

I bet they start towards split shifts ITRF. I bet 07-08.

[kissb]

"

Personally, my problem with the current language being shown for the ballot

eh.robis.net/uploads/JID37_3%2021%2006%20Props_2_3_06%20-%20Unofficial.pdf

States that the $124.6 million is *only* for the HS.

If approved, the supposed plan is to convert back WVHS Gold Campus to a middle school starting next year, right?

1) With what funds? The ballot language says nothiing about *THOSE* funds being used for that.
2) Taking WVHS Gold Campus away will dump all 4 years back INTO WVHS main building.

Next year, that will be approx 3600 students across 4 grades.

So, a *BIG* question to me is:

Why is it all of a sudden OK to stuff 3600 into WVHS main building under this scenerio when all the talk was about 'optimal' and saying the HS should be 3K or under?

That action alone will stuff WVHS at 3600 in the main building while leaving NVHS at 3220 in the main building.

*THIS* is why I have been consistently AGAINST converting back any Freshman center for this 'deal'. "

It would not require any funds to convert the freshmen center back to a middle school. They would just have the most well-equipped middle school in the district.

With regards to the enrollment, when the new school opened, the enrollment numbers would drop dramatically at both NV and WV as the freshmen and sophmores of both schools move over to the new one. This would significantly reduce the 3,600 number, to well within the stated 3,000 capacity.

[admin]

From the SB's reply

It means a high school for 3,000 students. If WV and NV
are a guide (and I think they are fairly representative of
this point), maximum utilization is in the high eighties or
low ninety percent range.

Smaller high level classes and electives prevent reaching
100% utilization.

If your question is if a 3,000 student high school means
3,000 teaching stations, the answer is no; it means
slightly more than that number. If your question is
whether there will be labs, the answer is yes. If your
question is whether, in the case of science labs, we count
the lab spaces and the desk spaces separately or together,
the answer is together (because you can't run a class in
the lab and in the classroom at the same time).

[warriorpride]

Bump.

Hopefully we can focus on the capacity at the main HS campuses and MSs, since that is what the referendum is addressing.

[warriorpride]

One of the problems that I have with the "capacity" numbers for the HSs stated by CFO is that the capacity for many rooms include decimal points- for example 25.7. The worksheet has an analysis of each room, so it's attempting to provide an analysis of 100% of the maximum (i.e. sardines) space, so why wouldn't each number be realistic (i.e. no decimals)? We're not going to have kids with one foot in the classroom door, are we?

[admin]

The otehr problem is the music, choir, orchestra, computer labs, gyms, science labs. rooms that can't be used for more than what they are designated for.

[title1parent]

That comment was brought up at the last coffee. You can't use the chorus room for Spanish class just to fill the seats.

Also, what I thought was scary was that 30 students in a classroom allows for an aid. I remember when it used to be 27/28.

[warriorpride]

For example, teaching Spanish in the Band room, teaching Home Ec. in a Computer Lab, etc. (UPDATE: I SWEAR that I wrote this without having seen title1parent's repsonse above, nor did I hear this example from any meeting)

I think that this is the same reason to argue against the freshman campus. You lose the ability to be flexible with space when its divided between 2 buildings (the freshman building and the main building). I'm sure that the Gold campuses are fairly well proportioned to handle approximately 1/4 of the HS population, but it seems to me that a single-building HS allows for more efficient overall use of space.

So, with the 3rd HS, we'd have 2 of 3 HSs making optimal use of the HS space - this would probably also make is easier for these schools to adjust to aberrations in enrollment on any given year, at any grade level.

[warriorpride]

Sorry to be posting so much, but ideas keep popping into my mind...

Another thing to consider is that the closer you get to using the realistic (where realistic will semantically mean different things to different people), the more you are setting yourself up for having to reevaluate boundaries. I'm sure people want that to have that happen every few years - NOT!

Oh, and I know that's been happening even in the recent past, but that's been due to the new schools being opened. I'm talking about in the future - boundary reevaluations every few years just to rebalance the maximum/optimal/realistic use of the HSs and MSs, ITRF.

[cantretirehere]

title1parent said:

That comment was brought up at the last coffee. You can't use the chorus room for Spanish class just to fill the seats.

Why can’t a chorus room be used for a Spanish class? I used to substitute teach and can’t see why this can’t be done.

title1parent said:

Also, what I thought was scary was that 30 students in a classroom allows for an aid. I remember when it used to be 27/28.

The reason we now have an aid in a class of 30 as opposed to a class of 26/27 as in the past is because they pay aids just slightly above minimum wage.

Would you be an aid for $9 an hour? I wouldn’t. It is hard work. I know cuz I when I subbed I would occasionally sub for aids, in the regular classroom and in the self contained classroom. The aids in the self contained class rooms should be getting at least $20. They change diapers. They get bitten. They get their faces punched. They hurt their backs trying to manage these challenging kids.

I had no problem subbing for aids cuz I got the regular sub pay which was higher. But the day that they changed the rules and said that subs that subbed for aids would get aid pay and that subs must sub for aids at least one day a week before they could sub for a teacher is the day I quit. I quit cuz I only liked to sub 1 day a week. So at that point it wasn’t worth it to me.

Want to hear a scary story? I was once talking to a 5th grade accelerated math teacher. She was happy to find that I didn’t mind subbing for her class during IEPs cuz a lot of subs did not want to teach 5th grade accelerated math. She would have the sub caller specifically ask for me cuz she knew I was good at teaching her class (PS sometimes she would come back from her IEP meetings 10 minutes into the class and told me to keep teaching). She told me that she was terrified of teaching accelerated math to her class because she didn’t know what she was doing!!!!!! I feel that since I have not compromised the identity of this teacher that this is something that parents should be aware of. Over the years in several lunchrooms I have heard similar statements from teacher teaching various subjects.

Oops! Kind of got off topic there.

[fence]

That explains why when we asked the teacher for help in my son's 5th grade accelerated math class, we were directed to Google!! Yikes.

Sorry, still off topic. Had to interject.

[warriorpride]

cantretirehere said:

Why can’t a chorus room be used for a Spanish class? I used to substitute teach and can’t see why this can’t be done.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. 1) I'm not sure if the band room, for example, is ever empty, but there's never the exact same number of people in every class. 2) Even if the band room is empty, it may not be equipped for teachind a standard class. And, while it might be possible to equip the room, there could be concerns about the instruments & equipment that are laying around the room.

And gyms certainly aren't particularly adaptable to teaching a standard class.

[kae]

warriorpride said:

kae said:

Well, “functional capacity” according to the STR report means that NVHS Gold Campus can function with a capacity of 1380 students utilizing 85% of total capacity, which is itemized on page two of the report. If this number of students couldn’t function, I would expect them to say something different, why would they say “functional capacity” if it wasn’t functional?

Going back to Howard Crouse’s email to the 204 district email, Mr. Crouse says, “The state requires us to apply a utilization factor of 80 percent to arrive at an estimate of a school’s ‘adjusted available capacity’.” Mr. Crouse continues later to say, “According to the Illinois State Board of Education's requirements, the combined adjusted available capacity of Neuqua Valley and Waubonsie Valley is 7,200 students. However, the district operates more efficiently than the state expects and is utilizing a capacity of 8,400 students.” This seems to imply that we are currently utilizing a capacity of 8,400 students today!

According to Mr. Crouse, this would imply that NVHS and WVHS have a total capacity of 9000 students. The state uses 80% of that figure, which is 7200, but Mr. Crouse says that the district is more efficient and can operate with 8400 students (this is 93.3% capacity).

Now look at the two Gold campuses. They can function at 1380 utilizing 85%, which would mean to me that the total would be 2760 across the two Gold campuses.

Adding 8400 + 2760 = 11,160 students with what we have now. If the district is efficient with the high schools operating at 93% (which is 8400/9000), then the Gold campuses might be that efficient too. In that case, the number of students in the Gold campuses might be 1514. That would give us 3028 students in the two Gold campuses.

8400 + 3028 = 11,428 students

I thought we needed to cover less than 11,000 students? According to the IPSD website (www.ipsd.org/3rdHS_mega.asp) the number is 10,400 students. With the above we might have 160 to 428 students to spare.

You can reference Mr. Crouse’s email that was posted here on this forum.
ipsd204.proboards76.com/index.cgi?board=sb&action=display&thread=1140625417

Are you sure we need to spend $124,660,000 to build a new high school?

People have different reasons for voting, but if your voting because you believe the district is right in saying that we're running out of space and yet the district is only needing space for 10,400, then I don't understand the district.

Is the district getting rid of the Gold campuses because they want to push Freshman into the High School? That would certainly make us run out of room.

The 8400 includes the Gold campuses. Do you really think that the SB would ask for $124M to build a school that they didn't think was needed (to solve impending MS and HS crowding), or that they are trying to trick us?

The 3rd HS would solve the HS overcrowding & converting WV Gold to an MS solves the MS overcrowding.

Please continue capacity discussions here: ipsd204.proboards76.com/index.cgi?board=discuss&action=display&thread=1138992372

My understanding is that the Freshman campuses aren't anywhere near full. So, if 8400 is with the Freshman campuses, remember according to Mr. Crouse, we're more efficient and we're running at 93%, then looking at the figures:


1514 NVHS Gold Campus (93% of 1623)
3223 NVHS
1514 WVHS Gold Campus (93% of 1623)
3759 WVHS
560 Frontier (93% of 600)
=================
10,570 Total Students

According to the Naperville Sun (Tuesday, February 28, 2006) page 12 of Local News says that the District locked up a lease on the 600 student (Frontier Campus).

The strange part is that M2 reported, when he spoke at the Patterson PTA meeting on January 24th of this year, that it wouldn't cost the district anything, but the Sun reports that it will cost the district $242,000 the first year with a 3 percent increase the following year to lease the building. So far, 150 students have signed up to take classes there. What could they do with the other 450 seats?

What is this Indian Plains HS? Is it another area or is it what the sun is calling Frontier Campus. According to the worksheet or CFO, Indian Plains HS has 200 or 600 seats depending on which number you believe.

[momof3]

The gold campuses are capacity restrained by the high schools. And why do you use 93% capacity at the gold campuses but over 100% capacity at the high schools? Really, at least use whole kids because we know .7 kids can't be in every classroom at the same time.

HEY wait a minute! Why did CFO take down their crazy capacity "proof"? It was just there yesterday! Oh, so people couldn't see the crazy backup for the crazy numbers.