D204 to reveal proposed Metea boundaries - Part 2

[doctorwho]

momin204 said:

sleeplessinnpvl said:

OK, I like this one. Gombert is still an island,however, I think you have to throw the bus situation out the window with Steck and McCarty going north but I'm not an expert on bus service out there. But I like it for poor Watts. I also like that even though the ES's split for 3 years, they come back together in HS. Have you crunched enrollment numbers?

post edit: Ew...I see Kendall to Still is a long commute. Is that the northern %? Do you think the board would see that as acceptable?

It doesn't help Cowlishaw's ride to MV which will be just as long as MW.

Actually since they are between us and MV it is shorter, as parts of Watts are across from the north part of Owen. The average bus ride is 5 - 7 minutes less - but it sucks also, I agree.

And don't assume Owen is out of the woods for having to go to MV either. If they keep Cowlishaw @ WVHS ( and let's say assign them to the 7th MS - Owen goes to Hill and MV. Keep your ear to the ground...not as far fetched as you think

[sleeplessinnpvl]

I was wondering if the numbers supported Owen east going to NV and western Owen to WV? This could free up space at WV for Cowl or Watts.

[doctorwho]

sleeplessinnpvl said:

rew said:

Do we really know what is acceptable to the SB in terms of distance traveled? achievement gap?

All I'm saying is that once geography is out the door for one area....

I don't believe that once geography is out the door for one area that means throw the whole criteria out the door. I believe the criteria is to make it fair for as many people as possible, not everyone. I admit, Watts commute will stink. But they have that commute because they are north/cental and easterly and the schools are northwest and west. I think if a plan can be made out there that sends Watts to WV, that's great and it will be looked at seriously. There aren't a lot of schools north of Watts that aren't already going to MV to consider, so naturally, they are looked at to go north.

You do realize that thee is a whole area north of watts that is 203 right ? All the way from Aurora Ave to Ogden. The next 204 school north of Watts is BD -- far north
of Watts. Pay no attention to the out of skew SD map - BD is quite a distance from Watts.

And when did making it 'fair' - not best mind you - just fair - for everyone go out the window. Why does anyone's commute have to suck ? With 3 schools no one should get the worst commute - not only Watts - but anyone.

Please put yourself in the position that someone decides your area has to go to the furthest d**n school from your house ( whichever one that is) - will you and yhour neighbors still consider that OK? Oh and btw - pick a MS that is the 3rd furthest from your area also.

Please tell me what the furthest HS from your area is and the 3rd closest MS - then tell me you would be OK with that --


The boundaries should be FAIR for EVERYONE. Not the best choice - but certainly not the worst either. I didn't realize that everyone isn't paying for the $150M expenditure, I must have missed that memo

[sleeplessinnpvl]

doctorwho said:

sleeplessinnpvl said:

I don't believe that once geography is out the door for one area that means throw the whole criteria out the door. I believe the criteria is to make it fair for as many people as possible, not everyone. I admit, Watts commute will stink. But they have that commute because they are north/cental and easterly and the schools are northwest and west. I think if a plan can be made out there that sends Watts to WV, that's great and it will be looked at seriously. There aren't a lot of schools north of Watts that aren't already going to MV to consider, so naturally, they are looked at to go north.

You do realize that thee is a whole area north of watts that is 203 right ? The next 204 school north of Watts is BD -- far north
of Watts. Pay no attention to the out of skew SD map - BD is quite a distance from Watts.

And when did making it 'fair' - not best mind you - just fair - for everyone go out the window. Why does anyone's commute have to suck ? With 3 schools no one should get the worst commute - not only Watts - but anyone.

If someone decides your area has to go to the furthest d**n school from your house - will you still consider that OK? Oh and btw - pick a MS that is the 3rd furthest from your area also.


The boundaries should be FAIR for EVERYONE. Not the best choice - but certainly not the worst either. I didn't realize that everyone isn't paying for the $150M expenditure, I must have missed that memo

I feel your pain, doc. I used to live in Watts area. One of the reasons I moved out was because I didn't like the commute to WV so I can't imagine what you will have to go through if you end up at MV. I'm just commenting that Watts/Cowl/Owen are in their own little grouping on the map. Maybe it's not to scale or whatever, but that is what I see. I would love to fit them all into WV but I'm just not seeing it. One, two or all three of these areas could be very unhappy depending on the boundary selection. Last boundaries made Brookdale and Petersen unhappy. If you think everyone will be happy with their commute with this school being where it's at, you are sadly mistaken. The key word I have seen the district use is "minimize" not eliminate. Personally I like someone's idea of building MV in the Springbrook Forest preserve!

[doctorwho]

sleeplessinnpvl said:

doctorwho said:

You do realize that thee is a whole area north of watts that is 203 right ? The next 204 school north of Watts is BD -- far north
of Watts. Pay no attention to the out of skew SD map - BD is quite a distance from Watts.

And when did making it 'fair' - not best mind you - just fair - for everyone go out the window. Why does anyone's commute have to suck ? With 3 schools no one should get the worst commute - not only Watts - but anyone.

If someone decides your area has to go to the furthest d**n school from your house - will you still consider that OK? Oh and btw - pick a MS that is the 3rd furthest from your area also.


The boundaries should be FAIR for EVERYONE. Not the best choice - but certainly not the worst either. I didn't realize that everyone isn't paying for the $150M expenditure, I must have missed that memo

I feel your pain, doc. I used to live in Watts area. I'm just commenting that Watts/Cowl/Owen are in their own little grouping on the map. Maybe it's not to scale or whatever, but that is what I see. I would love to fit them all into WV but I'm just not seeing it. Last boundaries made Brookdale and Petersen unhappy. If you think everyone will be happy with their commute with this school being where it's at, you are sadly mistaken. The key word I have seen the district use is "minimize" not eliminate. Personally I like someone's idea of building MV in the Springbrook Forest preserve!

The map is grossly out of scale and they admit that. It shows Watts school closer to BD than to 75th street almost ( which is all of 3 blocks from the school itself) . From that map it would make NV appear to be in Kankakee compared to Watts. It is by far the closest HS to our house - look at the map again and tell me what you see ?

I agree we are a grouping - dead east of WVHS ! There are 5 stop lights between us and WVHS - that is reality, not a map that shows our areas somewhere near Lake Michigan.

I did not choose this location and this is why - this will minimize nothing

The longest commutes today with 2 schools do not go away or minimize - they get longer and just move - to Watts / Cowlishaw/ Peterson - and maybe Owen. That is a problem as far as I'm concerned. If that is the best we can do then the site is a mistake - period.

Peterson had a right to be concerned I agree - however BD kept the same commute they always had and to the same school. Shorter than the commute either Owen or Watts get to MVHS - and it was NOT the furthest school from their home. Also they have a MS in their subdivision -- not ideal, but again not the WORST option.

If they were sent to NV - then they would have the same concern Cowl and Watts have today - they weren't. Do I believe they should have had another school with them though - sure.

[sleeplessinnpvl]

doctorwho said:

sleeplessinnpvl said:

I feel your pain, doc. I used to live in Watts area. I'm just commenting that Watts/Cowl/Owen are in their own little grouping on the map. Maybe it's not to scale or whatever, but that is what I see. I would love to fit them all into WV but I'm just not seeing it. Last boundaries made Brookdale and Petersen unhappy. If you think everyone will be happy with their commute with this school being where it's at, you are sadly mistaken. The key word I have seen the district use is "minimize" not eliminate. Personally I like someone's idea of building MV in the Springbrook Forest preserve!

The map is grossly out of scale and they admit that. It shows Watts school closer to BD than to 75th street almost ( which is all of 3 blocks from the school itself) . From that map it would make NV appear to be in Kankakee compared to Watts. It is by far the closest HS to our house - look at the map again and tell me what you see ?

I agree we are a grouping - dead east of WVHS ! There are 5 stop lights between us and WVHS - that is reality, not a map that shows our areas somewhere near Lake Michigan.

I did not choose this location and this is why - this will minimize nothing

The longest commutes today with 2 schools do not go away or minimize - they get longer and just move - to Watts / Cowlishaw/ Peterson - and maybe Owen. That is a problem as far as I'm concerned. If that is the best we can do then the site is a mistake - period.

Peterson had a right to be concerned I agree - however BD kept the same commute they always had and to the same school. Shorter than the commute either Owen or Watts get to MVHS - and it was NOT the furthest school from their home. Also they have a MS in their subdivision -- not ideal, but again not the WORST option.

If they were sent to NV - then they would have the same concern Cowl and Watts have today - they weren't. Do I believe they should have had another school with them though - sure.

I think we can all agree, this location is not great for the majority of the population. Period.

[confused]

We definitely all agree. It makes me wonder if the admin is scratching their heads wondering how they are going to make this work. You can tell Dash is not one to look back and second guess decisions. I think theSB probably had this as their "back-up plan" all along. Once they had the money...if BB didn't work out, they had AME. I remember back from the referendum days that the far north end of the district really wanted St. John's.

[sleeplessinnpvl]

The way I see it, someone in the Cowl/Watts/Owen area will end up unhappy with their commute. It all boils down to whether Steck and/or McCarty have to stay at WV. Then there is no one else to pull from to fill the north school except one, two, or all three of these schools.

The thing that frustrates me the most about this is that the SB wants us to submit boundary plans but doesn't help us with all of the criteria. Yes, they have provided us with enrollment numbers and test scores. But the one thing we all agree which is very important is distance. Does anyone know which subdivisions do not have bus service? IMO they are the only walkers. It looks like McCarty has 7 routes to its ES, but how many to the HS? If what the Dash said about "once they are on a bus, it doesn't matter" is the going thought, then we need to know which subdivisions are true walkers and the quantity of people that entails.

Also, who has the longest commute currently and what does it average? Looks to me like the folks up by Butterfield are sitting on their buses for awhile every day. Granted, it's a straight shot but I bet it has a lot of traffic lights. So their time on the bus one way should be fair game for anyone in the future. Transportation costs for those folks will be way down now, and it's going to have to mean transportation costs go up for some other area.

[rew]

Will there be ANY walkers to the MWGEN site. To have walkers there have to ve sidewalks. Are there sidewalks on Eola up there? Even Cambridge can't walk if there aren't sidewalks and that means that AME would have to be willing to put them in, even if it's before their church is built.

[pof2]

Sleepless, do you think the SB is going to consider any boundary plans from the residents or do you think they already have their boundaries decided? I think the latter.

[doctorwho]

sleeplessinnpvl said:

The way I see it, someone in the Cowl/Watts/Owen area will end up unhappy with their commute. It all boils down to whether Steck and/or McCarty have to stay at WV. Then there is no one else to pull from to fill the north school except one, two, or all three of these schools.

The thing that frustrates me the most about this is that the SB wants us to submit boundary plans but doesn't help us with all of the criteria. Yes, they have provided us with enrollment numbers and test scores. But the one thing we all agree which is very important is distance. Does anyone know which subdivisions do not have bus service? IMO they are the only walkers. It looks like McCarty has 7 routes to its ES, but how many to the HS? If what the Dash said about "once they are on a bus, it doesn't matter" is the going thought, then we need to know which subdivisions are true walkers and the quantity of people that entails.

Also, who has the longest commute currently and what does it average? Looks to me like the folks up by Butterfield are sitting on their buses for awhile every day. Granted, it's a straight shot but I bet it has a lot of traffic lights. So their time on the bus one way should be fair game for anyone in the future. Transportation costs for those folks will be way down now, and it's going to have to mean transportation costs go up for some other area.

WVHS parent is from that area and has stated that his bus trip is 35 minutes.
This is for a some subdivisions --
Watts is going to average 40 minutes -- so you take the longest commute today - lengthen it, and do so for an entire school ( sans Lehigh Station) -

and if Owen is included - as it may well be - you now have 2 entire schools with commutes longer than that one area --

how crazy


Petersen will get Brookdales commute

so you take the worse commutes we have -- lengthen the longest and do so for maybe 5 times the kids, and move the second longest commute to the south - but fix NONE. Someone please tell me again why the northern site was the best

[sleeplessinnpvl]

pof2 said:

Sleepless, do you think the SB is going to consider any boundary plans from the residents or do you think they already have their boundaries decided? I think the latter.

It's probably just a ploy to make us feel good.

[d204mom]

I think they have their minds made up regarding boundaries. Bruce Glawe already threw Owen, Watts, & COW under the bus during his school board meeting rant. That's 3 elementary schools going to the farthest away high school in the district. If Watts will be 40 minutes (HA I'll believe that when I see it) then Owen will likely be 50 or 60. I just re-read and they said Watts will "average" 40 so if you are on the east side it will be 50?

Don't forget that if FRY goes they have a Brookdale-to-WV-like commute. If not them then whoever replaces them at WV (SB?) will have a Brookdale-like commute to WV.

I think it will probably be years before they release the average commute information and we'll see how much it's gone up with the MWGEN site.

[Arch]

sleeplessinnpvl said:

Also, who has the longest commute currently and what does it average? Looks to me like the folks up by Butterfield are sitting on their buses for awhile every day. Granted, it's a straight shot but I bet it has a lot of traffic lights. So their time on the bus one way should be fair game for anyone in the future. Transportation costs for those folks will be way down now, and it's going to have to mean transportation costs go up for some other area.

That is a counter-commute each morning, with the heavier flow heading NORTH on Eola compared to the Southbound flow. To fill the MWGEN site, buses will have to travel IN the heavier commuting traffic traveling NORTH in the morning be that on Ogden, Rt. 59, or Eola for a decent part of their journey.

[rew]

I looked on Google Earth and, no, there are no sidewalks even from Harris Farm to Eola. So I suspect NO walkers to the site.

I suspect the church will not be required to put sidewalks in either, so Cambridge will still be bussed as well.