Enrollment Numbers Discussion

[doctorwho]

archwinsome said:

justme said:

He said "must not be" not "is not". At no point did I read anything definitive in those quotes, just speculation.

I also was unaware that Harry had any children at Scullen and therefore he would not have been included in those kind remarks about Scullen parents posted earlier.

It is 'speculation' that he/she projects as fact because if you read the other posts it is supported as a fact in their mind because we don't hear 'boo' from students about overcrowding; even challenging any reporter to do a story about it from a kid's perspective. Also stated was that since the SB isn't currently actively doing something about it, then the problem must not exist.

I happen to believe there *IS* overcrowding.

Perhaps Harry can jump in on this thread with a definitive YES or NO as to whether they believe Scullen is overcrowded or not.

I also believe there is severe overcrowding at Scullen - not minor - and I understand why casey is concerned -- however these 2 statement tell me I am overly concerned. If the classrooms are not crowded - and there is room for all at lunch - that is better than Hill has right now...so maybe I am overly concerned. And there was a post that said Fry is down 1 K class -

Again, explain it to casey, not to me or arch - because heck, maybe we are misinformed.

btw - yes, the kids being happy is extremely important - and absolutely wouldn't want that any other way in any situation

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"I am very lucky too. Report from my kid...yes to very crowded hallways, but fine with class sizes, lunch room, etc. Bottom line from my Scullen student, overall great experience"

Justme

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"My kids aren't having a problem whatsoever at Scullen. Their classrooms are absolutely not crowded"

Lacy

[lacy]

justme said:

doctorwho said:

you're responding to the wrong people, don't talk to us -- talk to casey who has a vested interest at Scullen - just seems like a mixed message on the population situation there -

We will disagree on that point. I would love to respond to the correct people though. Where are the Scullen parents that said it wasn't overcrowded?

Many of us have happy kids at Scullen. Sorry it doen't jive with the portrait of misery painted by the SB to support the last referendum. It also doesn't mean that the school itself is any less crowded. It simply means that the staff at Scullen are amazing in handling the situation. I feel very blessed to have a child there (and more on their way). Despite being overcrowded, my child is having a wonderful experience. I won't lie or apologize for that.

It seems that some have nothing better to do than to twist things around for their own agenda...

So I want to agree with Justme - my kids are doing fine at Scullen. Their classrooms are not overcrowded - and the staff is amazing. It would probably be a mess without a competent staff and administration.

However, Scullen shouldn't bear more of a burden than the other middle schools - enrollment should be distributed evenly - and that goes for the NVHS gold campus too.

Yes, Scullen is 200 some odd kids over capacity. And it's not perfect, but it works. Yes, there needs to be some remedy.

But build a 3000 seat high school - for maybe 1000 or so kids total? I'm not sure I'm following that. And to continue to overburden some schools while others are not would be inexcusable.

[doctorwho]

lacy said:

justme said:

We will disagree on that point. I would love to respond to the correct people though. Where are the Scullen parents that said it wasn't overcrowded?

Many of us have happy kids at Scullen. Sorry it doen't jive with the portrait of misery painted by the SB to support the last referendum. It also doesn't mean that the school itself is any less crowded. It simply means that the staff at Scullen are amazing in handling the situation. I feel very blessed to have a child there (and more on their way). Despite being overcrowded, my child is having a wonderful experience. I won't lie or apologize for that.

It seems that some have nothing better to do than to twist things around for their own agenda...

So I want to agree with Justme - my kids are doing fine at Scullen. Their classrooms are not overcrowded - and the staff is amazing. It would probably be a mess without a competent staff and administration.

However, Scullen shouldn't bear more of a burden than the other middle schools - enrollment should be distributed evenly - and that goes for the NVHS gold campus too.

Yes, Scullen is 200 some odd kids over capacity. And it's not perfect, but it works. Yes, there needs to be some remedy.

But build a 3000 seat high school - for maybe 1000 or so kids total? I'm not sure I'm following that. And to continue to overburden some schools while others are not would be inexcusable.

and I'd be twisting which of your words around ?

I pasted in your quote since we were told no one had said anything deifinitive. If you still stand by your statement here - so be it.
- you said the classrooms are not crowded and your kids are having absolutely no problem. justme said the classroom, nor the lunchroom are overcrowded. I defer to your knowledge of the situation, I don't have anything to do with Scullen.
and just what agenda does this fit ? Nice attempt at a shot, but the only thing being discussed here is MS attendance. Explain your viewpoint to casey who is concerned instead of trying to make this something it isn't.
Some people here say Scullen is very overcrowded - some like yourself say the classrooms are not overcrowded. I am trying to understand how both could be right.

It started with the fact that Hill had 500 less kids than Scullen. There is a reason for that - which has been established.

[rew]

I have had students at Scullen since 2002 through the present and I don't see how anyone can say it is not overcrowded. It is currently at 1450 students. They have portables. They have been sharing lockers for three years.

I atttended curriculum night and there was a lot of concern/complaints on the part of parents about the crowding.

Is Scullen functioning? Yes. Are the students miserable? No. But does Scullen function they way it was meant to? No. I can vouch because I saw it in 2002. The current student's experience is different now than in 2002.

Is it horrible? No. But is the learning environment diminished? IMO, yes.

[justme]

rew said:

I have had students at Scullen since 2002 through the present and I don't see how anyone can say it is not overcrowded. It is currently at 1450 students. They have portables. They have been sharing lockers for three years.

I atttended curriculum night and there was a lot of concern/complaints on the part of parents about the crowding.

Is Scullen functioning? Yes. Are the students miserable? No. But does Scullen function they way it was meant to? No. I can vouch because I saw it in 2002. The current student's experience is different now than in 2002.

Is it horrible? No. But is the learning environment diminished? IMO, yes.

I will say that just about everyone agrees (except maybe Harry) that Scullen is overcrowded. Can we put that to rest yet?

I attended curriculum night too and it was absolutely overcrowded during the passing periods. No question. I also had the pleasure of sitting in every one of my child's classes and did not feel in the least bit squeezed in.

We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect yours. I can only speak for my own family in saying that in no way do I feel that the learning environment is diminished. Maybe the passing period experience, but not the education.

[casey]

Geeeeeezzz, I disappear for a few hours and look what happens? I've been running around all day with my kids and haven't been back on since posting my earlier comments. Maybe that's a good thing. It appears that I've been lambasted by quite a few as well as started up quite a fury .

For the record, I have never posted anything about Scullen's overcrowded situation before. Yes, it's extremely crowded but my kids are surviving (as well as have survived) quite well. Is it a perfect situation having the school at over 1400 students? Of course not. Ask any parent/student if they'd prefer to leave and go to a different MS, I'd venture to say you wouldn't get many takers. Bottom-line is most are happy in their current schools. Scullen is an excellent school with an incredible staff. We make-do with the situation at hand. That being said, I do think Scullen's enrollment should be examined as well as all MSs before the 2008/2009 school year.

I am very familiar with Hill's MS design. It was an oversight on my part to imply that all MSs are designed the same. As pointed out, it certainly is not - my bad. I know that Hill is also very overcrowded (its capacity could never hold the numbers of Scullen) but ask Hill parents/students if they want to leave? Again, probably not many.

A couple of my kids have been lucky enough to be born in those years that used to be known as the "bubble". I had one child in an advanced math class at Cowlishaw that had over 32 kids and no seat for my kid - my child sat on a shelf! My kids have only known overcrowded schools. Have they suffered? No, they have been lucky to earn good grades, and do well in honor's classes, enrichment opportunities, clubs, sports, etc. Question though is how much better would they have been in a much smaller school setting? I'll never know but no matter what anyone wants to say learning is more optimal in a smaller setting.

I agree with Lacy for recognizing and pointing out that Scullen shouldn't bear more of a burden than the other middle schools - enrollment should be distributed evenly - and that goes for the NVHS gold campus too.

It sounds like I've touched on a raw nerve for some. My post was simply to point out that I think that the SB needs to look at some answers to overcrowding NOW. We can't wait for that 3rd HS to be built (2009? 2010?) to solve our problems of today.

[casey]

doctorwho said:

you're responding to the wrong people, don't talk to us -- talk to casey who has a vested interest at Scullen - just seems like a mixed message on the population situation there -

For the record, I do have a vested interest at Scullen just like I do at every school in our SD. I like to think that I watch out for the interests of all the students in our district. Amazing what being a teacher does for you - imagine being compassionate for others not just your own .

[casey]

doctorwho said:

agree - as soon as we know where the HS is going to go.

I'm not sure that I agree with that reasoning. What difference does it make where the 3rd HS is going? MS overcrowding would still need to be resolved. If the HS goes at BB or Macom or St. John's why would that change the outcome of MS boundaries? I understand the thought that MS should filter to the HS but is that always possible? Personally, I always thought trying to figure out HS boundaries before MS boundaries is putting the cart before the horse.

Please don't jump down by throat - I've taken enough for the day ;)but this is simply my opinion.

[casey]

DoctorWho said:

And there was a post that said Fry is down 1 K class -

I remember at the SB meeting a FRY dad speaking out and saying that FRY eliminated a Kg. classroom at the eleventh hour and the Kg. numbers went up (27-28 kids) as a result. So to say Fry Kg. is down a class is technically accurate but it is at expense of adding more kids to each classroom. According to his records last year's classes were 24 children. I'm sure that all would agree it would be better to have your child in a class of 24 vs. 28.



MOD: modified quote to reflect the user who really typed it.

[doctorwho]

casey said:

DoctorWho said:

And there was a post that said Fry is down 1 K class -

I remember at the SB meeting a FRY dad speaking out and saying that FRY eliminated a Kg. classroom at the eleventh hour and the Kg. numbers went up (27-28 kids) as a result. So to say Fry Kg. is down a class is technically accurate but it is at expense of adding more kids to each classroom. According to his records last year's classes were 24 children. I'm sure that all would agree it would be better to have your child in a class of 24 vs. 28.



MOD: modified quote to reflect the user who really typed it.

I am only quoting another poster here who stated that fact when discussing ES school attendance being down YTY-- the facts you include were somehow omitted from that post -- thank you for putting them in - that is interesting

[doctorwho]

casey said:

doctorwho said:

agree - as soon as we know where the HS is going to go.

I'm not sure that I agree with that reasoning. What difference does it make where the 3rd HS is going? MS overcrowding would still need to be resolved. If the HS goes at BB or Macom or St. John's why would that change the outcome of MS boundaries? I understand the thought that MS should filter to the HS but is that always possible? Personally, I always thought trying to figure out HS boundaries before MS boundaries is putting the cart before the horse.

Please don't jump down by throat - I've taken enough for the day ;)but this is simply my opinion.

only for the reason that the more one knows about each attendance, the easier it is to balance a larger number

also because yes, I do believe the location potentially changes who keeps their freshman center - and which one becomes a MS

[doctorwho]

casey said:

doctorwho said:

you're responding to the wrong people, don't talk to us -- talk to casey who has a vested interest at Scullen - just seems like a mixed message on the population situation there -

For the record, I do have a vested interest at Scullen just like I do at every school in our SD. I like to think that I watch out for the interests of all the students in our district. Amazing what being a teacher does for you - imagine being compassionate for others not just your own .

I also look at the whole SD when reviewing anything - but I cannot speak to each individual school with the knowledge that someone there can. Sorry if you misunderstood that -
You have a vested interest in that your children will attend there and you have a concern over the crowded conditions. You will know more about that individual condition than I will since my kids don't attend there. My daughter has 3 very close friends from her VB team that attend Scullen, and their parents are concerned like you are. For the record I agree with you.

I hope that makes it clearer

I have worked hard for a long time for the entire school district - not any one area.

[movingforward]

rew said:

I have had students at Scullen since 2002 through the present and I don't see how anyone can say it is not overcrowded. It is currently at 1450 students. They have portables. They have been sharing lockers for three years.

I atttended curriculum night and there was a lot of concern/complaints on the part of parents about the crowding.

Is Scullen functioning? Yes. Are the students miserable? No. But does Scullen function they way it was meant to? No. I can vouch because I saw it in 2002. The current student's experience is different now than in 2002.

Is it horrible? No. But is the learning environment diminished? IMO, yes.

My experience is similar to rew.

Is the school overcrowded? Absolutely! Are my kids miserable? NO, because the staff is coping as best they can AND my kids don't know anything different. AND, we don't speak about it being a negative issue in front of them. We talk very positively in our household about anything related to their education.

Classrooms themselves are on the high end, IMO but more importantly to me is the fact that they have to set up classrooms in unconventional places; the family room areas and the library and in portables.


Mod: Have read through all posts and see that this topic is beaten to death. Wanted to add that I agree that MS overcrowding needs to be addressed before the 7th middle school is ready. What can we do to help these kids now? Changing MS boundaries next year with the understanding that they may change again once the high school and 7th MS are ready? I am open to any suggestions that the district may have.

[lacy]

rew said:

I have had students at Scullen since 2002 through the present and I don't see how anyone can say it is not overcrowded. It is currently at 1450 students. They have portables. They have been sharing lockers for three years.

I atttended curriculum night and there was a lot of concern/complaints on the part of parents about the crowding.

Is Scullen functioning? Yes. Are the students miserable? No. But does Scullen function they way it was meant to? No. I can vouch because I saw it in 2002. The current student's experience is different now than in 2002.

Is it horrible? No. But is the learning environment diminished? IMO, yes.

Rew - there is 1 portable.

And no sharing lockers this year as far as I understand it.

And P.S. - my kid made a friend last year sharing lockers they probably never would have gotten to know otherwise.

[concerned]

Scullen is overcrowded. This year they have blocked off the middle of two of the houses so they can have more class rooms. It is a very tight squeeze to move around in these houses. I do believe that Crone has the same situation. Scullen has one portable and it is very nice. My kids love going in there for class. As for the lockers they moved over the lockers from Wheatland and the kids do not have to share lockers this year.

My kids are very happy at Scullen, kids adapt. My kids don't know any difference. I believe they are getting a very good education at the MS.