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Post by macrockett on Feb 27, 2010 12:48:58 GMT -6
Not sure what the problem is...this is a perfectly fine venue for the answer....currently the 204 portion of my taxes is $3500.. In 2014 will that go up 10%...20%? or is it too soon to know? this will give all posters here an Idea of exactly what to look forward to. Doc is talking about leaving for Florida because of the increases. I am truly not trying be a smart ass (this time) My 204 Property Taxes for 2007/2008 were $3,669.87/$3,921.49 with the tax rate going from 4.4920 to 4.4859 (07 to 08). For clarity, I have summed up the taxes/tax rate for Unit School District 204 and the 204 Pension Fund. Of course any one can see the problem and my due diligence made me request that my assessment be reviewed and with proper documentation my assessment was lowered 15%! My point is that perhaps D204 residents should spend some time looking at property sales in their neighborhood. Do I think that the tax RATE is going to do something crazy?? The answer is no unless the district votes to increase it. As a side, the district residents will do just that at some point. History has shown that the district supports its schools and least anyone disagrees, the district has ONLY voted down ONE referendum. I remember a referendum that was passed for 0.9500 rate increase with the stated purpose of increasing salaries to compete with Naperville 203. At the Hill MS first of the year orientation Rasnic (sp) nearly got down on his knees and kisses our feet for the support of 204 schools. SO if you think that a referendum won't pass - you are only one vote. Why speculate at all gek when no one can say with certainty what the voters will do? |
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Post by Arch on Feb 27, 2010 13:13:41 GMT -6
seems to me what people voted for and what they got were two different things...especially the price tag... we'll just chalk it up to "that's the way the republic for of government works!" I guess we need to be more educated (before voting) that our district can legally turn 124 million into 141million. I for one am guilty of that. Guilty of voting to turn 124 to 141? |
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Post by steckdad on Feb 27, 2010 13:37:56 GMT -6
I guess we need to be more educated (before voting) that our district can legally turn 124 million into 141million. I for one am guilty of that. Guilty of voting to turn 124 to 141? no. |
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Post by macrockett on Feb 27, 2010 14:45:32 GMT -6
Why do you pose questions about which you already know the answer Steckdad? Some might consider that being a "smart ass." Rather than being so concerned about Doc, why don't you challenge each and everything I write here on this Board. Please show your facts and conclusions. The more transparency the better. We sure aren't getting it from the District. I just asked you question a few posts back and I am looking for an answer....still waiting. I truly do not know the answer and I do not want a link to another post with a bunch of complicated information. You truly are the only one here that even gets half the stuff you post. With your financial expertise could you please answer my question? how much more or is it too soon to tell? In looking back Steckdad you seem to be the only one posing the question. You tell me, tell me what the CPI is each year between now and 2014, tell me where salaries and benefits will be, and how many teachers we employ in 2014, tell me the tax rate in 2014 and the assessed value of all the property in the District and what part is residential and what part is commercial. Give be that information and I can probably give you a reasonably close answer. If you want me to speculate, based on current trends, the direct impact to our property taxes is an increase of about 3% per year in the short term, rising exponentially over the long term, along with the cost of any referendums passed. But those don't represent the entire cost as we also pay for our schools in our income tax both State and Federal. As I have said elsewhere already, based on current trends, not counting the impact of loss of State support (again and again) D204 is looking at a budget increase of about $7 million per year. Whether that is enveloped in the CPI or referendum, it amounts to approximately a $30 million referendum every 4 years. |
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Post by macrockett on Feb 27, 2010 15:08:52 GMT -6
seems to me what people voted for and what they got were two different things...especially the price tag... we'll just chalk it up to "that's the way the republic for of government works!" I guess we need to be more educated (before voting) that our district can legally turn 124 million into 141million. I for one am guilty of that. Based on what I have seen, over the two years I have looked behind the curtain of D204, the "education" is trust no one and verify everything. The "shock" of our Superintendent over the State not coming through with the funds as expected is quite funny. The high level of "communication" between the District and the community is also giving me hysterics. Wonder when the projected cost savings from the recommendations of the Finance Committee will come out? |
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Post by doctorwho on Feb 27, 2010 17:19:41 GMT -6
still don't get it after all this time do you ? 1/ the consultant that gave the report to the SD said the majority of people did NOT want a 3rd high school- it was like #5 or 6 on the option list 2/ We voted on it based on LIES ! we were told: 10,400 high school students by this year - and higher after that split shifts by 2008 cuts in extra curriculars due to # of students ( funny how karma may work on this one) increasing school populations WRONG-- ES down 4th year in a row by 2%-3% per year And before you can say no one knew about the downturn - the SD has their own document dated 3/8/07 - their financial statement that shows a MAX of 8900 HS students and a looming deficit of $4M-$12M. CV raised the issue one last time at the SB meeting before construction and was talked down by JC and MS..they pissed the money away anyway. They knew this BEFORE they turned one grain of polluted dirt - and you have the nerve to stand there and say we voted for it..we voted for falsehoods- period. And I give a rats behind whether it was at BB - current site - or any other including in my back yard- it was unneeded and they knew it..yet not only spent $124M they were voted , but and extra $17 on bond issues and $10M expediting because they could... that's who you want making financial decisions ? hitting yourself with the hammer and blaming someone else for the pain is our SD spending money like drunken sailors- then trying to tell people we are spending nothing after opening a $150M unneeded HS - they saying how it's ALL the states fault - BS ! can't really argue with the reasons you voted and never have. Maybe I am simplifying too much? Either you voted to pay more taxes or you didn't... If everything came true you were told your tax bill would be the same...sorry It didn't..I can't help your plight and that is where the hammer comes in IMO. again it does not eliminate the fact that those who voted to go ahead and build knew full well BEFORE they started to build the facts were BS --( if they didn't already know all along) - yet we are trusting many of these same people to continue to make financial decisions with our money ? It's not the fact that it did not come true - it never was going to come true and they knew it. They panicked everyone with scare tactics and unfortunately some of us up front believed these were honest people ..some goofs still think they've done no wrong. |
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Post by doctorwho on Feb 27, 2010 17:22:04 GMT -6
seems to me what people voted for and what they got were two different things...especially the price tag... we'll just chalk it up to "that's the way the republic for of government works!" I guess we need to be more educated (before voting) that our district can legally turn 124 million into 141million. I for one am guilty of that. we're all guilty of that - however never again as I wouldn' trust them with my lunch money |
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Post by lacy on Feb 27, 2010 22:00:01 GMT -6
still don't get it after all this time do you ? 1/ the consultant that gave the report to the SD said the majority of people did NOT want a 3rd high school- it was like #5 or 6 on the option list 2/ We voted on it based on LIES ! we were told: 10,400 high school students by this year - and higher after that split shifts by 2008 cuts in extra curriculars due to # of students ( funny how karma may work on this one) increasing school populations WRONG-- ES down 4th year in a row by 2%-3% per year And before you can say no one knew about the downturn - the SD has their own document dated 3/8/07 - their financial statement that shows a MAX of 8900 HS students and a looming deficit of $4M-$12M. CV raised the issue one last time at the SB meeting before construction and was talked down by JC and MS..they pissed the money away anyway. They knew this BEFORE they turned one grain of polluted dirt - and you have the nerve to stand there and say we voted for it..we voted for falsehoods- period. And I give a rats behind whether it was at BB - current site - or any other including in my back yard- it was unneeded and they knew it..yet not only spent $124M they were voted , but and extra $17 on bond issues and $10M expediting because they could... that's who you want making financial decisions ? hitting yourself with the hammer and blaming someone else for the pain is our SD spending money like drunken sailors- then trying to tell people we are spending nothing after opening a $150M unneeded HS - they saying how it's ALL the states fault - BS ! can't really argue with the reasons you voted and never have. Maybe I am simplifying too much? Either you voted to pay more taxes or you didn't... If everything came true you were told your tax bill would be the same...sorry It didn't..I can't help your plight and that is where the hammer comes in IMO. I am oh so sorry to inform you, but the party is over. The taxpayers will not support another referendum. The district leadership is incompetent (as well as corrupt in some cases) and the turnover in the district population is not great enough now for a whole new "wave" of people to move in who might not notice. Rock on, Steckdad. |
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Post by steckdad on Feb 28, 2010 2:01:35 GMT -6
I just asked you question a few posts back and I am looking for an answer....still waiting. I truly do not know the answer and I do not want a link to another post with a bunch of complicated information. You truly are the only one here that even gets half the stuff you post. With your financial expertise could you please answer my question? how much more or is it too soon to tell? In looking back Steckdad you seem to be the only one posing the question. You tell me, tell me what the CPI is each year between now and 2014, tell me where salaries and benefits will be, and how many teachers we employ in 2014, tell me the tax rate in 2014 and the assessed value of all the property in the District and what part is residential and what part is commercial. Give be that information and I can probably give you a reasonably close answer. If you want me to speculate, based on current trends, the direct impact to our property taxes is an increase of about 3% per year in the short term, rising exponentially over the long term, along with the cost of any referendums passed. But those don't represent the entire cost as we also pay for our schools in our income tax both State and Federal. As I have said elsewhere already, based on current trends, not counting the impact of loss of State support (again and again) D204 is looking at a budget increase of about $7 million per year. Whether that is enveloped in the CPI or referendum, it amounts to approximately a $30 million referendum every 4 years. I asked simply because of the 2014 doom and gloom predictions on the board. I pointed out others wanting to leave. I was trying to quantify what impact that would have on the average household here in 204. If you had said it is too early to tell that is fine. I just thought there may be some hard numbers behind the predictions(at an individual level) thanks for your response... |
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Post by steckdad on Feb 28, 2010 2:07:38 GMT -6
can't really argue with the reasons you voted and never have. Maybe I am simplifying too much? Either you voted to pay more taxes or you didn't... If everything came true you were told your tax bill would be the same...sorry It didn't..I can't help your plight and that is where the hammer comes in IMO. I am oh so sorry to inform you, but the party is over. The taxpayers will not support another referendum. The district leadership is incompetent (as well as corrupt in some cases) and the turnover in the district population is not great enough now for a whole new "wave" of people to move in who might not notice. Rock on, Steckdad. Lacy, I have to take you to task when you post that district leadership is corrupt in some cases. What are those cases because I have not heard of any and I think it is irresponsible to post that. Maybe you should edit and say it is your opinion... as far as a new ref. getting pass I agree it would be harder this time around but I would not say never here in 204 |
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Post by doctorwho on Feb 28, 2010 7:10:36 GMT -6
In looking back Steckdad you seem to be the only one posing the question. You tell me, tell me what the CPI is each year between now and 2014, tell me where salaries and benefits will be, and how many teachers we employ in 2014, tell me the tax rate in 2014 and the assessed value of all the property in the District and what part is residential and what part is commercial. Give be that information and I can probably give you a reasonably close answer. If you want me to speculate, based on current trends, the direct impact to our property taxes is an increase of about 3% per year in the short term, rising exponentially over the long term, along with the cost of any referendums passed. But those don't represent the entire cost as we also pay for our schools in our income tax both State and Federal. As I have said elsewhere already, based on current trends, not counting the impact of loss of State support (again and again) D204 is looking at a budget increase of about $7 million per year. Whether that is enveloped in the CPI or referendum, it amounts to approximately a $30 million referendum every 4 years. I asked simply because of the 2014 doom and gloom predictions on the board. I pointed out others wanting to leave. I was trying to quantify what impact that would have on the average household here in 204. If you had said it is too early to tell that is fine. I just thought there may be some hard numbers behind the predictions(at an individual level) thanks for your response... it's really simple math predictions based on the last 2 years - I am up almost 13% for 204 in the last 2 years. Now that does not even include the bulk of the monies for the new HS that hit in 2014 - nor does it include any referendum people would be stupid enough to pass ( you know because of the State issues, none of our own) -- as this district mat be as much as $70M in the hole by then -( remember someone told you that as a candidate when they ran but the Susie Sunshine group elsewhere just referenced our great bond rating so we MUST be solvent. ) so extrapolate out those %'s per year - the larger bite still to come and any additional monies voted in. As Mike stated the rest of the factors are unknown but also unlikely to change significantly in any 12 month period. |
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Post by lacy on Feb 28, 2010 7:53:43 GMT -6
I am oh so sorry to inform you, but the party is over. The taxpayers will not support another referendum. The district leadership is incompetent (as well as corrupt in some cases) and the turnover in the district population is not great enough now for a whole new "wave" of people to move in who might not notice. Rock on, Steckdad. Lacy, I have to take you to task when you post that district leadership is corrupt in some cases. What are those cases because I have not heard of any and I think it is irresponsible to post that. Maybe you should edit and say it is your opinion... as far as a new ref. getting pass I agree it would be harder this time around but I would not say never here in 204 We can start with the bait and switch on the location of the school. The district knew that the first referendum failed because people didn't know which school their child would attend. So we had the whole charade regarding initial boundaries, the vague language on the ballot, and then the hurried purchase (with no appraisal) of land at the fringe of the district - which clearly benefited some board members neighborhoods. We can add the obvious errors (on purpose?!) on the bridge memo. There are many other examples I have made a deliberate decision to forget. But the bottom line is that I have seen enough. The leadership has mismanaged our finances and dug themselves a hole. |
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Post by asmodeus on Feb 28, 2010 9:11:46 GMT -6
I think many of us are in agreement that the way that MV was ultimately built, and ultimately financed at levels way beyond the intial referendum amount, is shameful. However, I've always wondered what, if anything, could have been done by the SB, to NOT proceed with MV in the face of evidence that it was A) not necessary based on truer enrollment projections, or B) not prudent based on an economic downturn.
Given that the referendum passed, is there any way the SB could have decided not to build the school after all, or maybe build a scaled back HS for let's say $60M--or could D204 have been sued for not obeying the wishes of the voters? In other words, was the referendum binding?
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Post by Arch on Feb 28, 2010 9:20:20 GMT -6
Steckdad,
District 204 isn't the only thing that makes up one's taxes that will be going up. The cumulative effect of each is already too much to bear for some and in the next 4 years will snarl even more. Consumer sales are in the toilet, credit drying up, sales tax revenues down, etc... the liability falling back to the property tax payers. Do you have some insight into some huge swing around back to better days in the next 4? I certainly don't and based on trending believe it will just get worse and worse for at least the next decade putting an even larger crushing burden on the taxpayer unless this district (the largest part of your tax bill) does some serious gutting/cleaning.
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Post by Arch on Feb 28, 2010 9:25:04 GMT -6
I think many of us are in agreement that the way that MV was ultimately built, and ultimately financed at levels way beyond the intial referendum amount, is shameful. However, I've always wondered what, if anything, could have been done by the SB, to NOT proceed with MV in the face of evidence that it was A) not necessary based on truer enrollment projections, or B) not prudent based on an economic downturn. Given that the referendum passed, is there any way the SB could have decided not to build the school after all, or maybe build a scaled back HS for let's say $60M--or could D204 have been sued for not obeying the wishes of the voters? In other words, was the referendum binding? The language authorized them to sell bonds for construction of a third HS. I don't believe they HAD to because that's not what the ballot said, it just said they were AUTHORIZED to; if they so voted to do it. I think they were worried about that AUTHORIZATION expiring and losing the chance to grab the money. From walking around MVHS, I can tell you first hand I think the money was not very well spent. I find beams with creases/pinches/fatigue spots in them, stair handles that look like someone took a piece of pipe, a blow torch and a pipe bender and *THAT* is your stair handle... looks like something very CHEAP in materials and workmanship at a PREMIUM price. Plenty of HR Imaging cheap posters all over talking about INTEGRITY... That's the same company that basically makes you spend $100 or so for any decent package of pictures to send out to relatives... My God, that company looks like it has a racket going with someone on the inside. I totally get Lacy's opinion on the comment made because it sure as hell APPEARS that way when you go looking at things with your own eyes. You can see the low quality materials and the rush job outcome and when you consider the price and the change orders for even more money along the way it makes one really wonder how many people may have lined their pockets along the way with this one. |
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