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Post by steckdad on Feb 28, 2010 10:28:14 GMT -6
Lacy, I have to take you to task when you post that district leadership is corrupt in some cases. What are those cases because I have not heard of any and I think it is irresponsible to post that. Maybe you should edit and say it is your opinion... as far as a new ref. getting pass I agree it would be harder this time around but I would not say never here in 204 We can start with the bait and switch on the location of the school. The district knew that the first referendum failed because people didn't know which school their child would attend. So we had the whole charade regarding initial boundaries, the vague language on the ballot, and then the hurried purchase (with no appraisal) of land at the fringe of the district - which clearly benefited some board members neighborhoods. We can add the obvious errors (on purpose?!) on the bridge memo. There are many other examples I have made a deliberate decision to forget. But the bottom line is that I have seen enough. The leadership has mismanaged our finances and dug themselves a hole. So it is your opinion. not actual corruption you are talking about. |
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Post by macrockett on Feb 28, 2010 10:30:33 GMT -6
In looking back Steckdad you seem to be the only one posing the question. You tell me, tell me what the CPI is each year between now and 2014, tell me where salaries and benefits will be, and how many teachers we employ in 2014, tell me the tax rate in 2014 and the assessed value of all the property in the District and what part is residential and what part is commercial. Give be that information and I can probably give you a reasonably close answer. If you want me to speculate, based on current trends, the direct impact to our property taxes is an increase of about 3% per year in the short term, rising exponentially over the long term, along with the cost of any referendums passed. But those don't represent the entire cost as we also pay for our schools in our income tax both State and Federal. As I have said elsewhere already, based on current trends, not counting the impact of loss of State support (again and again) D204 is looking at a budget increase of about $7 million per year. Whether that is enveloped in the CPI or referendum, it amounts to approximately a $30 million referendum every 4 years. I asked simply because of the 2014 doom and gloom predictions on the board. I pointed out others wanting to leave. I was trying to quantify what impact that would have on the average household here in 204. If you had said it is too early to tell that is fine. I just thought there may be some hard numbers behind the predictions(at an individual level) thanks for your response... Then lets just get to the point Steckdad. I can tell you unequivocally that in 2014 things will not be rosy, in that there will continue to be pressures put upon our District. D204 does not live in a fishbowl, there is no "island of prosperity." The world is getting smaller and more competitive. Private sector wages are in jeopardy, and that is where public sector spending comes from. The common theme of my posts, for the most part, is spending should be based on "need", period. Forget the "want"and the self-interest, because D204 will "need" every penny to satisfy the goal of giving our children the tools they will "need" to be competitive in the future. It is by looking outside our community at the big picture that I could easily see the State would default on it's promises to continue funding schools because it has done so for decades (and I said just that in my recommendations to the Board almost 5 months ago). That wasn't some bold statement, is was no brainer, the numbers just don't add up. Our state has reached "critical mass" financially. I understand your point, but it seems to me you are not understanding the outside influences that will impact our situation here in D204. Those include reliance on the communities' ability to continue paying the bills when their ability to do so has been impared and will continue to be impared. In addition, the State's ability to grow and generate revenue is highly suspect, currently at 48th in the nation on the former. You know as well as I do things are a mess. When I make decisions, I look at the big picture, I would assume you do too. I would hope that our District does, but based on what I have seen, I am not confident. The thought process of building the third HS is a case in point as I have written. The ability of the Board to absorb the financial picture is another. If you can't understand the $17 million funding gap for MVHS and the inappropriateness of that financially, let alone along the lines of morals and ethics, how can you sit and manage $1+ billion in your term. My only "agenda" regarding D204 is to hold the "feet to the fire" of those in charge and challenge them to do more in leveraging our resources to help our kids in the challenges they face in the future. From the very first Board meeting I spoke at in February 2008 my message has been consistent and I believe the message of Doc, Arch and many others on this Board is consistent and complements what I have said. That said, I have little tolerance for self-interest, manipulation and waste. From my vantage point, all three are clearly evident in D204. |
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Post by steckdad on Feb 28, 2010 10:36:29 GMT -6
Steckdad, District 204 isn't the only thing that makes up one's taxes that will be going up. The cumulative effect of each is already too much to bear for some and in the next 4 years will snarl even more. Consumer sales are in the toilet, credit drying up, sales tax revenues down, etc... the liability falling back to the property tax payers. Do you have some insight into some huge swing around back to better days in the next 4? I certainly don't and based on trending believe it will just get worse and worse for at least the next decade putting an even larger crushing burden on the taxpayer unless this district (the largest part of your tax bill) does some serious gutting/cleaning. I do understand that there are different factors in my tax bill...204 being the biggest chunk.... No one likes to pay taxes period arch, and they seem to increase every year. Even if I don't have the same doom and gloom view of the next decade, it still is very smart to prepare yourself for the worst.. Without telling too much, I have seen some encouraging things through my work to show consumer confidence is on the climb, but not anywhere near 2008 levels...... |
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Post by macrockett on Feb 28, 2010 10:41:25 GMT -6
I am oh so sorry to inform you, but the party is over. The taxpayers will not support another referendum. The district leadership is incompetent (as well as corrupt in some cases) and the turnover in the district population is not great enough now for a whole new "wave" of people to move in who might not notice. Rock on, Steckdad. Lacy, I have to take you to task when you post that district leadership is corrupt in some cases. What are those cases because I have not heard of any and I think it is irresponsible to post that. Maybe you should edit and say it is your opinion... as far as a new ref. getting pass I agree it would be harder this time around but I would not say never here in 204 That sounds like a lawyer talking Steckdad. Do you think it is actionable? Sounds like the imo is implied and we do have the first amendment, don't we? |
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Post by steckdad on Feb 28, 2010 10:47:22 GMT -6
Lacy, I have to take you to task when you post that district leadership is corrupt in some cases. What are those cases because I have not heard of any and I think it is irresponsible to post that. Maybe you should edit and say it is your opinion... as far as a new ref. getting pass I agree it would be harder this time around but I would not say never here in 204 That sounds like a lawyer talking Steckdad. Do you think it is actionable? Sounds like the imo is implied and we do have the first amendment, don't we? MAC...we live in 204!!!!! if it was actionable it would have been done by now...Actually there was a group that felt there was some corruption and that case was thrown out of court. but I am not a lawyer though.... btw...part of posting on a board is others on the board will hold you accountable when you post something that they disagree with. |
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Post by macrockett on Feb 28, 2010 10:55:05 GMT -6
I think many of us are in agreement that the way that MV was ultimately built, and ultimately financed at levels way beyond the intial referendum amount, is shameful. However, I've always wondered what, if anything, could have been done by the SB, to NOT proceed with MV in the face of evidence that it was A) not necessary based on truer enrollment projections, or B) not prudent based on an economic downturn. Given that the referendum passed, is there any way the SB could have decided not to build the school after all, or maybe build a scaled back HS for let's say $60M--or could D204 have been sued for not obeying the wishes of the voters? In other words, was the referendum binding? In my opinion we should have stopped in our tracks Asmodeus. Again, imo, you don't lurch forward to solve a short term problems with a long term solution, especially if you aren't even sure of the facts, i.e., do we really need all that space?. There were short term solutions for accommodating D204 while we figured it out. Were they perfect? Of course, not. But imo we could have saved $100 million dollars of the taxpayers money that would then be available, hopefully, in the future for unforeseen needs. |
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Post by macrockett on Feb 28, 2010 11:17:29 GMT -6
Steckdad, District 204 isn't the only thing that makes up one's taxes that will be going up. The cumulative effect of each is already too much to bear for some and in the next 4 years will snarl even more. Consumer sales are in the toilet, credit drying up, sales tax revenues down, etc... the liability falling back to the property tax payers. Do you have some insight into some huge swing around back to better days in the next 4? I certainly don't and based on trending believe it will just get worse and worse for at least the next decade putting an even larger crushing burden on the taxpayer unless this district (the largest part of your tax bill) does some serious gutting/cleaning. I do understand that there are different factors in my tax bill...204 being the biggest chunk.... No one likes to pay taxes period arch, and they seem to increase every year. Even if I don't have the same doom and gloom view of the next decade, it still is very smart to prepare yourself for the worst.. Without telling too much, I have seen some encouraging things through my work to show consumer confidence is on the climb, but not anywhere near 2008 levels...... Do tell Steckdad, I would like to know what those signs are? Here is one of the "indicators" I see.. www.conference-board.org/economics/consumerconfidence.cfmIf you want to discuss demographics, statistics, government reports, economics, etc., I love that stuff. I spend part of my day, everyday, looking at data. While I agree there are some preliminary signs Steckdad, how sustainable are they, not even considering all the structural issues we face as a nation? I mean monetary policy (short term rates at 0%, quantative easing (aka printing money), including the Fed becoming THE mortgage banker in the country (buying MBS), essentially replacing the shadow banking sector in ABS)...and fiscal policy, (the treasury borrowing as far as the eye can, almost tripling our national debt over the next 10 years) to sustain transfer payments such as unemployment benefits and largess to the States to support bloated budgets. When all of that "stimulus" ends and we have to get back to relying on the private sector what does the picture look like? |
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Post by macrockett on Feb 28, 2010 11:18:33 GMT -6
That sounds like a lawyer talking Steckdad. Do you think it is actionable? Sounds like the imo is implied and we do have the first amendment, don't we? MAC...we live in 204!!!!! if it was actionable it would have been done by now...Actually there was a group that felt there was some corruption and that case was thrown out of court. but I am not a lawyer though.... lol, touche! btw...part of posting on a board is others on the board will hold you accountable when you post something that they disagree with. lol, touche! |
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Post by EagleDad on Feb 28, 2010 11:52:45 GMT -6
Lacy, I have to take you to task when you post that district leadership is corrupt in some cases. What are those cases because I have not heard of any and I think it is irresponsible to post that. Maybe you should edit and say it is your opinion... Well, I'm not Lacy, but how about the President of the school board calling parents of a raped student "motherfuckers" in writing. Does that qualify Steckdad? It's fact, not opinion. |
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Post by Arch on Feb 28, 2010 12:02:46 GMT -6
Lacy, I have to take you to task when you post that district leadership is corrupt in some cases. What are those cases because I have not heard of any and I think it is irresponsible to post that. Maybe you should edit and say it is your opinion... Well, I'm not Lacy, but how about the President of the school board calling parents of a raped student "motherfuckers" in writing. Does that qualify Steckdad? It's fact, not opinion. ...and using a taxpayer funded email system to do it and in clear violation against the Acceptable Use policy of that system, as referenced and posted on here when it happened. |
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Post by steckdad on Feb 28, 2010 16:37:02 GMT -6
Lacy, I have to take you to task when you post that district leadership is corrupt in some cases. What are those cases because I have not heard of any and I think it is irresponsible to post that. Maybe you should edit and say it is your opinion... Well, I'm not Lacy, but how about the President of the school board calling parents of a raped student "motherfuckers" in writing. Does that qualify Steckdad? It's fact, not opinion. poor choice of words yes...corruption...no |
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Post by EagleDad on Feb 28, 2010 17:58:06 GMT -6
Well, I'm not Lacy, but how about the President of the school board calling parents of a raped student "motherfuckers" in writing. Does that qualify Steckdad? It's fact, not opinion. poor choice of words yes...corruption...no Well then I guess you/Mark Metzger - and I set our respective moral compasses by different means, as I viewed it as corruption. |
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Post by steckdad on Feb 28, 2010 18:27:39 GMT -6
poor choice of words yes...corruption...no Well then I guess you/Mark Metzger - and I set our respective moral compasses by different means, as I viewed it as corruption. that's convenient for you eagle dad? what happened? I thought MM and yourself were friends? |
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Post by EagleDad on Mar 1, 2010 6:40:42 GMT -6
what happened? I thought MM and yourself were friends? There was a time when I knew Mark and I worked hard on his campaign (as well as Curt's). As to what happened, too many games have been played, too much manipulation of the facts, too much deceit, all at the expense of our communities kids. I believe the cause of the falling out of my support is this very corruption you speak of. I do not know this "motherf*cker" Mark. He is dead to me. |
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Post by brant on Mar 1, 2010 8:00:57 GMT -6
what happened? I thought MM and yourself were friends? There was a time when I knew Mark and I worked hard on his campaign (as well as Curt's). As to what happened, too many games have been played, too much manipulation of the facts, too much deceit, all at the expense of our communities kids. I believe the cause of the falling out of my support is this very corruption you speak of. I do not know this "motherf*cker" Mark. He is dead to me. I know only too well the feeling of being betrayed. I trusted these guys once to do what is right for the district. So did a lot of others. Never did I imagine partisan agendas meant more then our kids. And the more I look at our SB the more I realize these people were never capable of running our SD not to mention handling our tax dollars. |
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